Preseason Grades: Spurs vs. Thunder - Dec. 12, 2020

[Sugus]

If Lyles is freezing a player out -- and by many accounts he was -- he cannot see the floor. This is a very limited player who is not far from moving out of the league. Not to say that behavior is excusable for anyone, but for a player with his limited gifts, he needs to go.

Agreed, tbh. Lyles' behavior was very clear, and completely unacceptable. I think all that stuff about being on the new jersey promos might've given him a false sense of security within the roster, which his last interviews reflected. He thinks he's "found his place" in SanAn, and of course the young, potential-filled Luka is his direct adversary in staying on the rotation. Coaches better be showing him yesterday's tape and screaming in his face that that can't fly during the season, nor ever.

On a funny note, looks like Dejounte was right when he said he had the feeling Lyles and Luka didn't like each other... Now I'm hoping it's not some unhealthy level of disdain.

[Sugus]

The difference is I've seen DeMar switch to a facilitator role (he wasn't one last night) and do it effectively, whereas Mills can only do one thing and one thing only - score.

No one is defending DeMar. He was bad.

DeMar was awful last night. Back to Hero Mode playstyle, completely forgot about his distributor role he had in the bubble. He was constantly looking for his own shot, like Mills, then being a turnstyle on the other end. He even had some floaters-running shots that were worse looks than he usually settles for, looked kind of forced. Out of the vets, only LMA and maybe Rudy played acceptably well.

You have to wonder what the locker room mood was, after all that talk before pre-season, then coming in and getting beat by the G-League Thunder

[The Truth #6]

I think things will change once White comes back to takeover those PG duties.

I'm reserving judgment on the team until 10 games into the regular season. Others should too. Preseason always makes people go nuts.

Probably wise. But I do think the team is going in two distinct directions and Pop has to guide them to their better version through his rotations if nothing else.

[Dejounte]

Agreed, tbh. Lyles' behavior was very clear, and completely unacceptable. I think all that stuff about being on the new jersey promos might've given him a false sense of security within the roster, which his last interviews reflected. He thinks he's "found his place" in SanAn, and of course the young, potential-filled Luka is his direct adversary in staying on the rotation. Coaches better be showing him yesterday's tape and screaming in his face that that can't fly during the season, nor ever.

On a funny note, looks like Dejounte was right when he said he had the feeling Lyles and Luka didn't like each other... Now I'm hoping it's not some unhealthy level of disdain.

We don't even need to count on Luka to humble him. KBD looks like he has potential to do that.

[TD 21]

I said it then, people read way too much into the "bubble". They were never going to go into the season starting DeRozan at the four. I wouldn't read too much into the 90s starting lineups either, as we've seen this in the past for the first preseason game.

- DeRozan, Murray and Poeltl, should never play together.

- Haven't given up, but Walker has the whiff of a one dimensional, empty calories type and seems headed for whipping boy/fringe rotation status.

- At least it'll be easy to relegate him to that, unlike Murray, who they foolishly prematurely anointed and sunk starting money into.

- Suspected it and it's already clear Vassell should start on the wing opposite DeRozan. Put Gay at the four, then have a combination of Lyles/DeRozan/Johnson eat the backup minutes.

- Poeltl, White, Johnson, Vassell, appear to be the keepers among the youth.

[Dejounte]

DeMar was awful last night. Back to Hero Mode playstyle, completely forgot about his distributor role he had in the bubble. He was constantly looking for his own shot, like Mills, then being a turnstyle on the other end. He even had some floaters-running shots that were worse looks than he usually settles for, looked kind of forced. Out of the vets, only LMA and maybe Rudy played acceptably well.

You have to wonder what the locker room mood was, after all that talk before pre-season, then coming in and getting beat by the G-League Thunder

I think the ESPN rating was still on his mind. I think he'll revert back to a facilitator soon enough (especially if the losses start stacking up). Hopefully it doesn't need to get to that point.

[Dejounte]

If we're down point guards,

STOP
PLAYING
PATTY
AT
THE
POINT

use this guy.

[Sugus]

We don't even need to count on Luka to humble him. KBD looks like he has potential to do that.

Any word on his ankle? I don't think I saw him get back on the court after he twisted it. But you're right, he definitely has potential - though I think having to "count on" a better player to show another one of our players who's boss, is already a bad strategy. Lyles is far too inconsequential on the court to be potentially creating drama in the lockerroom. If his antics go on a few more games, I'll officially add him to my Trade-ASAP list, tbh.

I think the ESPN rating was still on his mind. I think he'll revert back to a facilitator soon enough (especially if the losses start stacking up). Hopefully it doesn't need to get to that point.

You'd think that seeing his team lose every time he "goes back" to his regular game would eventually make him realize it's not winning ball. After like 12 seasons in the league though, I'm not expecting anything... And tbh, I can see the more selfish play as a directive from coaching, to up his (and maybe Mills') trade value. I'm not going to make too many assumptions over one preseason game, but it does make sense. Now, if he continues to play selfish, and he's still on the team by trade deadline...

[Dejounte]

Any word on his ankle? I don't think I saw him get back on the court after he twisted it. But you're right, he definitely has potential - though I think having to "count on" a better player to show another one of our players who's boss, is already a bad strategy. Lyles is far too inconsequential on the court to be potentially creating drama in the lockerroom. If his antics go on a few more games, I'll officially add him to my Trade-ASAP list, tbh.



You'd think that seeing his team lose every time he "goes back" to his regular game would eventually make him realize it's not winning ball. After like 12 seasons in the league though, I'm not expecting anything... And tbh, I can see the more selfish play as a directive from coaching, to up his (and maybe Mills') trade value. I'm not going to make too many assumptions over one preseason game, but it does make sense. Now, if he continues to play selfish, and he's still on the team by trade deadline...

To be fair to Lyles, he's not a negative impact player when he's the worst player on the court (with the starters, for example). He's just okay.

However, when he's the "best" player on the court (with the deep bench) AND he starts acting like he is, he's one of the worst players in the NBA.

I think he'll start playing like an afterthought again once the rotations are back to normal.

[Sugus]

To be fair to Lyles, he's not a negative impact player when he's the worst player on the court (with the starters, for example). He's just okay.

However, when he's the "best" player on the court (with the deep bench) AND he starts acting like he is, he's one of the worst players in the NBA.

I think he'll start playing like an afterthought again once the rotations are back to normal.

That's not exactly a hopeful evaluation then

A bad player who's basically forced to acknowledge his role when on the court with superior talents, but readily forces the spotlight on him when the chance arises, AND without the talent or play to make up for that "me-ness"? And on top of that, he's conflicting with and actively shunning a young player who could grow into replacing him? Yeah, no thanks...

[Dejounte]

That's not exactly a hopeful evaluation then

A bad player who's basically forced to acknowledge his role when on the court with superior talents, but readily forces the spotlight on him when the chance arises, AND without the talent or play to make up for that "me-ness"? And on top of that, he's conflicting with and actively shunning a young player who could grow into replacing him? Yeah, no thanks...

Oh yeah, no I'm not defending his case of being a long term starter or anything like that. Just evaluating him as far as priorities go relative to other players-- he's not a major issue at this moment (though he is when there are rare opportune times when other young players like Luka are getting playing time and he's taking away the spotlight from them)

[Mr. Body]

Trey Lyles still thinks he's one of John Calipari's top recruits instead of one of his cast asides. This is Danny Green before he got cut the third time or whatever it was. Just most players don't become Danny Green.

[onechance87]

If we're down point guards,

STOP
PLAYING
PATTY
AT
THE
POINT

use this guy.

Hope to see more of him next game

[The Truth #6]

Was Lyles really that selfish last night? Locker room cancer seems like a fast reaction, not that I don’t engage in fast reactions myself frequently. To me, Luka looked completely passive and Lyles was calling his shot too much. Obviously, one affects the other, but my initial take was more about Luka.

[GAustex]

It appeared to me that Lyles on more than one occasion went away from the best option at the time which was Luka and instead went with himself or tried to make a play that had a bad outcome

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the grades. I am not local so I can’t watch these games. (No illegal streams for me either TY). Glad to hear to read that Vassell looked good hopefully he integrates with the team for his rook season.

[timtonymanu]

Lyles only has a career because of that stupid Morris brother doing his nephew act on us. If that scrub is really trying to pull that ,, Pop better not hesitate to drop his ass.

Made me so annoyed last year when people would make the comparisons to Boris Diaw.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

As others have stated, if Pop rolls this pile of horsesh!t lineup out there every night I’ll just watch something else. The bubble group was fun to watch. This group will play just well enough for a mid to late lottery pick, and will be painful to watch all year.

Boo.


2/10 enjoyment factor on this game.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't think you need elite facilitators, necessarily, so much as players who can slash and kick if they need to. This creates a churn that opens up the perimeter. You do need attentive guys who can see collapsing defenses, but this isn't impossible for players who are good in other categories. Of course it's not Manu and Diaw, but Parker wasn't an exceptional floor general and he learned to see and know where everyone was.

Yes but you are trading one elite player/skill for another so it’s a moot point. Like nobody on this team is event close to peak Parker at driving and kicking and collapsing a defense. Just like nobody on the team is close to the vision/iq of Manu and Diaw. It’s the reason why I wanted Lewis bc he can get by his man with his dribble while nobody on our team consistently can. Maybe White, but he needs to up his aggression by a lot.

I was just saying we have no elite players at anything so this motion offense stuff isn’t gonna work and the majority of our players are gonna go back to what they know- chucking

[KobesAchilles]

Also I was REALLY hoping we didn’t pick up Lyles contract this year. The guy needs to go. He does nothing positive. He’s like an amoeba, he’s just kinda there

[GAustex]

He’s like an amoeba
lol

[poopbox]

all this hand ringing over the starting lineup...Derrick is out...pretty sure he is going to replace Gay when he gets back...

Now the real problem is LMA and Poeltl starting...defense falls apart when Poeltl is out and aint no way ma touches is ever going to come off the bench...if pop asked he might lock himself in his shoe house...

Biggest impact to winning in the bubble was demar at the 4 and it looks like that isn't going to happen so...not going to replicate the success of the bubble...

[The Truth #6]

Hmm. It’s hard for me to understand the hate for Lyles. No one is saying he’s actually good. But he hit almost 50% of his 3s at the last few months of last season. That’s something I hope to see more of. But I’m not into sacrificing this year so contract-year players can pad their stats. Hence the disappointment of the offseason and the larger challenge for Pop to make sense of the mess he helped create.

[Sugus]

all this hand ringing over the starting lineup...Derrick is out...pretty sure he is going to replace Gay when he gets back...

Now the real problem is LMA and Poeltl starting...defense falls apart when Poeltl is out and aint no way ma touches is ever going to come off the bench...if pop asked he might lock himself in his shoe house...

Biggest impact to winning in the bubble was demar at the 4 and it looks like that isn't going to happen so...not going to replicate the success of the bubble...

In what world does White replace Gay when he comes back? They play entirely different positions. If you meant in a "positional shuffle" kind of sense, there's a bigger problem there, which is Dejounte's fixation on the SL per Pop's wishes. White is more likely to come off the bench once he's healed, than take the starting PG job, sadly; especially if Pop wants to start LMA/Jakob or doesn't want to start DeMar at the 4, where he'd make the most sense especially given our lack of true starting caliber options there.

Agreed on the rest. Hilarious that a 35yo can't reasonably come off the bench, but this is what we've come to, I guess. LMA could get all the touches he wants abusing opposing benches, while the starting lineup benefits from Poeltl's defense (as long as he can stay on the court, at least) and bubble-simil playstyle. But nope.

[spurs10]

The difference is I've seen DeMar switch to a facilitator role (he wasn't one last night) and do it effectively, whereas Mills can only do one thing and one thing only - score.

No one is defending DeMar. He was bad.

Scoring seemed to be a big issue for our team last night though. On another note, is 74 points in the first half some kind of record? Must be one the worst in recent history.