Reply With QuoteGhost um that's why the Spurs would have to trade with the Clippers for Brand.
Whats lost, Ghost, is your ability to understand that we risk absolutely nothing by attempting to broker a S&T deal with Sterling now. It does not affect our ability to go after other FAs. What Sterling would do is the whole point of attempting to broker the trade.
At least we know your philosophy on life now... don't try anything you think could be difficult or somewhat unlikely, no matter its potential benefits and low risk position.
Is Brand not balla enough for you?
Ghost um that's why the Spurs would have to trade with the Clippers for Brand.
What the fvck are you two talking about?
BRAND IS CONTEMPLATING SIGNING STERLING'S CURRENT OFFER. WHY WOULD HE DEAL WITH THE SPURS NOW?!?
QUESTION.
?
Well um, because he could get 6 years at the max instead of 5, for starters.
scott, it's just plain stupid to try to broken a S&T with the Clippers for Brand at this point. First of all, Brand is contemplating Sterling's initial offer. Secondly, the Spurs would be better off offering Brand the full max themselves before dealing with Sterling. Lastly, Sterling may not want the Spurs picks at all.
Meanwhile, the Spurs could be trying to sign Jermaine O'Neal outright.
Think.
Can you think of any more irrelevant questions to ask, Ghost.
Sterlings willingness to make a deal is the whole point of trying to work the trade.
Luckily your "it seems hard so I won't bother trying" approach doesn't seem to fly with the rest of the Spurs organization.
Brand won't sign anything with Sterling unless he signs other key FA's to keep the team together.
I'm getting a headache.
This is not a serious offer. This is akin to the Spurs offer to DA a few summers back.
You only make an offer like this to get the player to say no. The question is...does Sterling want to see Brand say no to him and sign the qualifying offer....or does Sterling want Brand to say no to him and then hit the market and find a good sign and trade deal that Sterling likes?
Yes, it would be just plain stupid to try to make a riskless move to add a star caliber player. We should rely on smart moves that involve offering Jermaine O'Neal $30 million less than he could get in Indianapolis.scott, it's just plain stupid to try to broken a S&T with the Clippers for Brand at this point
The thing with JO'Neal is that if he decides on SA it won't be hard to make up that $30 mil difference. Spurs will have to send back a pick like Orlando did to Toronto for McGrady in order to get the Pacers to participate in the sign and trade.
Basically, if you sell JO'Neal on becoming a Spur then it's close to a done deal. The problem with Brand is that you have to win him over, then play games with Sterling.
I could easily see Sterling haggling with the Spurs for a week and then breaking off talks with nothing.
That's what I see happening. I don't want to get caught up in a quagmire with Sterling and a restricted free agent when we can cut to the chase with O'Neal.
There is nothing stopping you from doing both at this point. We have 13+ days to see what we can do on both. Like I said- you spend your time now on the phone with Sterling seeing what needs to be done to work a deal. If you can't work a deal- you haven't eliminated Jermaine O'Neal from the running.
Spending time trying to get Brand in a S&T now does not prevent you from getting O'Neal in a S&T later, nor does it prevent you from playing the Sterling games later.
Its also quite possible to have a S&T deal on the table and an agreement with O'Neal reached on July 16th.
Then you are in the ultimate position of being able to choose which player you want based on two factors:
1) Which player is better (overall and "fit"-wise)
2) Is what we give up getting Brand worth the $22million we save in comparison to O'Neal. Simarily, is O'Neal worth $22million more to the Spurs?
It would be the best possible position to be in.
You talk with Brand and Sterling but there is always the problem of that sabotaging your negotiations with JO'Neal.
If things are going good with JO'Neal you want him to feel that he's THE MAN. It will be impressive to him that the Spurs want him over Kidd. You can make sure that you have communicated your interest in Brand to Brand but it's kinda hard to juggle everything simultaneously. At some point you have to say...you're our guy.
scott, I think this is how the phone call will go between RC and Baylor if the Spurs tried to broker a S&T now:
RC: " o, Elgin. We'd like to dend you our late first round picks and some cash for Elton Brand."
Baylor: "As tempting as that sounds, Brand is actually considering our modest initial offer now. We'll let you know should he as for a full max contract."
RD: "Um, okay. Thanks for listening."
Since O'Neal is a week away from coming to SA- we don't have that problem now.
Ghost, Elton's tune will change after you tell his agent that you want to pay him the absolute max.
I don't see the following quote ever being accurate:
Elton Brand: "Well, I'd love to make more and play next to Tim Duncan on a championship contender, but I already said I'd consider this other, lesser, offer. Sorry."
Again Ghost. If Company X offers you a job that pays 100k, of course you are going to consider it. Right up until Company Y offers you a job that pays 150k.
Fine. The Spurs offer the extra year and more money, then what?
Sterling either matches, lets Brand walk and addresses his other free agents or does your proposed S&T.
That's a long process. You can't just skip ahead to the S&T now, scott.
Ghost, let me make this as simple as possible.
Step 1) Call Brand and his Agent. Say you want to offer the absolute Max.
Step 2) Brand's agent calls Sterling and Baylor. Says they have an offer for the Max, and that is now the going rate.
Step 3) RC calls Sterling and Baylor and inquires about a S&T.
This should take all of an afternoon.
The thing is...you can play that game with JO'Neal and Kidd effectively...but not as much with Brand.
The Spurs can be like...'we consider you and Kidd to be our top 2 free agent picks and we want you, not him, as our first option'.
Pursuing the more difficult S&T option with Brand would seem to belie this point.
In addition, what if Sterling pushes you to make a commitment NOW? Do you ditch JO'Neal?
Scott, what if Sterling decides to match San Antonio's offer for the absolute Max??? Then Brand is stuck in Clipper-land, whether he likes it or not!
Brand: "Thank you, RC. I accept your offer for the max contract."
Sterling: "Since Elton Brand is MY restricted FA, I have decided to match San Antonio's max offer for him. Now Elton Brand in contractually bound to me for duration of the offered San Antonio contract (6 years?). Thank you."
You forgot about the part where Sterling can decide to match the Spurs offer.
These things are not decided in one afternoon, pal.
And you originally listed brokering a S&T first, which made no sense in a chronological sequence.
Instead of all that, why not just send O'Neal the same offer out of the gate?
Exactly. And Sterling has upwards to two weeks to match an offer, I think. If Brand were to sign a contract with San Antonio, Sterling can sit on his ass for two weeks, leaving San Antonio tied up with Brands contract, and not able to pursue other FA's (Kidd, JO). Then, at the last minute, Sterling can step in and match the Spurs offer for Brand, leaving San Antonio with nothing.
Going after Brand THIS SUMMER would be the worst idea imaginable.
NEXT.
MB,
If Sterling forces us into a committment now, we make the committment, unless you see Brand as a worse option than O'Neal (which I do not).
Superstar obtained, offseason = success.
Adidas, that is the reason we do the talking now, and not after July 16. There is no offer sheet for Elton Brand to sign right now.
His agent calls up Sterling and says he has an offer for a max deal- the max is now the going rate.
Unless Sterling is going to bait Brand into signing that offer sheet by saying he wont, and then doing in at getting himself an unwilling Elton Brand for 6 years (which is possible) you will be able to find out whether or not Brand is obtainable.
You'll be able to guage whether or not Sterling will pay that much for Brand.
If you can't work a deal, you can still work a deal with O'Neal.
You can still play the game via some spin.
If things don't work out with Brand- you tell O'Neal, "you are our top guy- we weren't just exploring our options given there are no guarantees you will be a Spur." Same situation with Kidd.
The risk lies within Sterling saying he won't match a Max deal, and then matching it- screw us and Brand in the process. But if Sterling isn't going to go for a S&T now, knowing the max price is the going price, you hold off on offering Brand the max offer sheet until after you've struck out with your other FA options.
Once again, in chronological order:
1) Attempt a S&T for Brand (before July 16, a point you two clowns manage to keep ommitting)
2) Explore Other Top Tier FA Options
3) Extend Offer Sheet to Brand
4) Explore other FA options
We've made no offer to match, dumb .You forgot about the part where Sterling can decide to match the Spurs offer.
Let me try this for you ONE MORE TIME.
You push the going rate up NOW (before July 16 before any official offers can be made).
You talk to the Clips about a S&T NOW (before July 16 before any trade like this can take place).
If you can't reach the agreement, you do not offer Brand an offer sheet (which is required for the Clips to do any matching) until your other FA options have been exhausted.
How does this not make chronological sense?
Yet if you talk to JO'Neal and persuade him to come then that's all you need to do. I don't see how that is necessarily more difficult than going through that trouble to land Brand. Ultimately you are going to Brand first and saying 'you're our guy' and we're going to start talking to your team to work something out.
JO'Neal might be just as motivated as Brand to leave his current team...and he's less trouble to acquire.
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