Game Thread: Nets (27-15) @ Spurs (13-31) Tuesday Jan. 17, 2023 7:00PM CT 3:00AM RIGA

[Seventyniner]

I guess the next step is to flatten the lottery even more, maybe give the bottom 6 or 7 teams the same chances at the top 4 picks the way the bottom 3 teams are the same now.

[Sugus]

I can’t believe the hubris of a guy like Simmons who predominantly shoots all of his shots within 5 ft with his right hand, yet never attempted to change his FT routine to perhaps incorporate that.

Then you see a player like Sochan, changing his shot in real time, through his rookie year mind you, to address a fatal flaw of too much guide hand/twisting motion for the benefit of his long term shooting upside…

Little details like these can be much better indicators of how a player will evolve and develop over time, than things like straight-up shooting %s and splits. Watching the game matters, players' at udes and personality matter. Very few players develop truly out of nowhere; most times, their success or failure is simply a consequence to their work ethic and choices.

If you listed stats from Simmons' and Sochan's (yet to finish) rookie seasons, and tried to extrapolate that into guessing who would be the better shooter/offensive player in 5 years' time, you'd get the wrong answer every single time.

[Sugus]

I've been watching HOU and DET games and it's an abomination. I actually honestly think DET just sucks and are genuinely trying but can't hang. But HOU is totally hustling the league, their fans and the game. It's so disgusting. Rockets will go up with a lead and the bounce the ball off their leg or some , not even hiding it level of product manipulation. It's straight up tampering. collusion. It's a betrayal of the spirit of compe ion, a rejection of the very nature of sport itself. I hope Silver is monitoring the situation, it's out of control. lol

I'm of the belief that this embarrasing product Rockettes is putting on the court this season, will karmically impact their results on draft night, and the same goes for the Spurs' losing-but-trying model of tanking. We'll see.

[Sugus]

One of the obvious tankers landing Wemby will be a massive embarrassment for the NBA after Silver’s warning against tanking to start the season. I expect the NBA to have as many “practice” drawings as necessary for HOU or DET to not win it. CHA I think will be absolved of their sins this season, like us, because this is about how many games you can expect teams so devoid of talent to be.

Glad to see OKC break out of the hard core tanking this season. Rewarding the Pistons (5, 1, 7 in the last 3 drafts) or Rockets (3, 2) last two drafts would be pitiful. They are textbook examples of the kind of the thing the league needs to do something about.

I saw a tweet the other day from some Rockets Draft account talking about how they *need* Wemby, like having the 3 and 2 pick in the last two draft isn’t enough.

Completely agree, it's ridiculous. You can even make the argument that gifting Wemby to the Rockettes or Detroit is outright bad for the league, as neither team has shown any ability to develop talent and take players to their ceilings. Would you really, as Commissioner, want the possible next international face of the league to be in such hands? I know I wouldn't.

[Chomag]

Dumb Spurs working themselves to a mid pick

[KingKev]

Love how quick Zollins is ready to have his teammates back and mix it up…. I generally don’t like Sochan's antics but that was justified last night.

[Ariel]

I've been watching HOU and DET games and it's an abomination. I actually honestly think DET just sucks and are genuinely trying but can't hang. But HOU is totally hustling the league, their fans and the game. It's so disgusting. Rockets will go up with a lead and the bounce the ball off their leg or some , not even hiding it level of product manipulation. It's straight up tampering. collusion. It's a betrayal of the spirit of compe ion, a rejection of the very nature of sport itself. I hope Silver is monitoring the situation, it's out of control. lol

Ultimately, the Rockets had a clear incentive to maximize their odds at a top-four finish in 2021, which they did with a woeful finish to the season that included a historic 20-game losing streak. They ended up landing at No. 2 in the lottery and using that pick on Jalen Green.
It was a tough spot for a veteran like Wall, a five-time NBA All-Star who was coming off multiple years lost due to injury and simply wanted an opportunity to compete. In a new interview with Tidal Sports, Wall accuses the team of “tanking” for draft placement.
“My first year in Houston, we were tanking,” Wall tells the podcast host. “We lost 20 in a row. We were trying to lose on purpose, tanking. We were starting [guys] named Justin Patton.”
Wall also said he couldn’t come to an agreement with Stone or head coach Stephen Silas on playing time and a mutually satisfactory role for the ensuing 2021-22 season, which led to him sitting out that campaign and having his contract bought out in June 2022.
Here’s how Wall recalls the conversation with Silas:
Coach said, ‘How would you feel coming off the bench?’ I said, ‘For who? No offense, but for who? I was your best player last year.’
‘This is what the GM wants. He wants you to play 10-15 minutes a game, sometimes don’t play.’ I said, ‘I’m not doing that. Either you’re going to guarantee me some minutes, or I’m not. Let [a player] earn his spot.’
Coach said, ‘You don’t deserve that, you should be a starter. This is what they want to do.’
As Wall sees it, in the pursuit of higher draft capital and a relative absence of veterans, young players on the Rockets are developing bad habits that wouldn’t be tolerated elsewhere. Wall mentioned Green, Kevin Porter Jr., and KJ Martin as players he had spoken with.
“The [expletive] y’all getting away with over there, if you go to any other teams you’d be out of the league,” he said. “You wouldn’t play. I’m trying to explain it to them, because they think it’s sweet.”
“Don’t get used to this,” Wall said of his advice to Houston’s current younger players. “This is not how the NBA is. It’s a bad organization right now. They’ve got to fix some [expletive].”

It doesn't get any more explicit that that.

[Jordan Jackson]

I’m not mad at Houston or Charlotte, and Detroit for that matter. People clutching their pearls claiming some imaginary moral high ground are wasting their time. This is the way the system is designed. Do I love it? No. But it’s never changing.

League won’t have a problem with Wemby in Houston. Why would they? They’ve been down this road before with Yao Ming.

If you’re going to be mad - be mad at the coach with his own agenda and a front office with its own agenda. Neither seem to be on the same page.

[K...]

The league will never fix tanking until they ins ute a rule against consecutive lottery wins. Spread the top talent around

[TD 21]

I’m not mad at Houston or Charlotte, and Detroit for that matter. People clutching their pearls claiming some imaginary moral high ground are wasting their time. This is the way the system is designed. Do I love it? No. But it’s never changing.

League won’t have a problem with Wemby in Houston. Why would they? They’ve been down this road before with Yao Ming.

If you’re going to be mad - be mad at the coach with his own agenda and a front office with its own agenda. Neither seem to be on the same page.

Yeah, the joke will more than likely be on the Spurs in the end.

If the league cared about this nonsense, they would have long since come to the rescue post screw job or rewarded them for being the only team in play-in vicinity to strive for it 3 straight seasons instead of blatantly tanking like so many others.

The Rockets won't be "punished", on the contrary they'll likely be rewarded because they're a major market with historical ties to an even bigger one in China.

[KingKev]

Yeah, the joke will more than likely be on the Spurs in the end.

If the league cared about this nonsense, they would have long since come to the rescue post screw job or rewarded them for being the only team in play-in vicinity to strive for it 3 straight seasons instead of blatantly tanking like so many others.

The Rockets won't be "punished", on the contrary they'll likely be rewarded because they're a major market with historical ties to an even bigger one in China.

You are such a boring conspiracist. The Rockets are clearly
tanking and a organization but there is strategy to winning in life that you haven’t realized

Learn the rules of the game and manipulate them tge best you can. Or ROFL like the yellow M&M

[Mr. Body]

Eh, I'm not upset at the super-tankers. I've consistently said that tanking like that leads to a loser mentality that is really hard to get out of a team and its players. It's no mistake these teams are persistent losers year after year. The Rockets hadn't had a lottery pick in years and now without any veteran leadership (Gordon is checked out) and no plan, no coaching, just the Hinkle-level awfulness, they're not going to get better anytime soon.

And it's not like Wembanyama is some magic trick. If he goes to a ty team, they're not suddenly going to get good. He may even be ruined. It happens all the time.

[ambchang]

You are such a boring conspiracist. The Rockets are clearly
tanking and a organization but there is strategy to winning in life that you haven’t realized

Learn the rules of the game and manipulate them tge best you can. Or ROFL like the yellow M&M

Rockets has the strategy in winning in life? Am I reading this right?

[KingKev]

Rockets has the strategy in winning in life? Am I reading this right?

One season of us tanking and we could truly start our rebuild which will still take 3+ years easily. Inevitably picking 7th in no strategy.

[XDT76]

Eh, I'm not upset at the super-tankers. I've consistently said that tanking like that leads to a loser mentality that is really hard to get out of a team and its players. It's no mistake these teams are persistent losers year after year. The Rockets hadn't had a lottery pick in years and now without any veteran leadership (Gordon is checked out) and no plan, no coaching, just the Hinkle-level awfulness, they're not going to get better anytime soon.

And it's not like Wembanyama is some magic trick. If he goes to a ty team, they're not suddenly going to get good. He may even be ruined. It happens all the time.

If Rockets got Wemby, get a decent coach and roll out a front line of Wemby, Smith and Sengun, it could change the landscape of the NBA.

[K...]

One season of us tanking and we could truly start our rebuild which will still take 3+ years easily. Inevitably picking 7th in no strategy.

if you consistently pick 7 you will win a top 4 pick every 3 or 4 picks. so it's actually a good idea to light tank over hard tank. the superstars of recent past are not number 1 picks, it's a mix of top 5 picks and later. Winning the lottery, and wiffing is much worse then getting 7 to 14 picks. that's how teams get stuck at bottom

[KingKev]

if you consistently pick 7 you will win a top 4 pick every 3 or 4 picks. so it's actually a good idea to light tank over hard tank. the superstars of recent past are not number 1 picks, it's a mix of top 5 picks and later. Winning the lottery, and wiffing is much worse then getting 7 to 14 picks. that's how teams get stuck at bottom

I disagree with your logic K dot.

[Mr. Body]

if you consistently pick 7 you will win a top 4 pick every 3 or 4 picks. so it's actually a good idea to light tank over hard tank. the superstars of recent past are not number 1 picks, it's a mix of top 5 picks and later. Winning the lottery, and wiffing is much worse then getting 7 to 14 picks. that's how teams get stuck at bottom

What people overlook is how expensive high lottery picks are. We get pissy pants excited over top 3 or 4, but those picks are locked into an exorbitant rookie scale. This winds up throttling bad teams because they have so much salary locked into either bad players or players that miiight pan out.

So, sure, James Wiseman might be worth a look but his salary levels are ridiculous. I kind of like Jabari Smith, but is he ever going to be worth a #2 pick salary?

Probably not.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The new lottery format sucks ass. Spurs are kind of settling into the 4th position which is fine, I think. 14% chance at one vs. 12.5? Not a big difference. At least people here won't be jumping off buildings this way if we don't win the draft lottery. Finish in the bottom 3 and folks will blame Pop when we're picking 5th.

[Mr. Body]

The new lottery format sucks ass. Spurs are kind of settling into the 4th position which is fine, I think. 14% chance at one vs. 12.5? Not a big difference. At least people here won't be jumping off buildings this way if we don't win the draft lottery. Finish in the bottom 3 and folks will blame Pop when we're picking 5th.

There's always teams leaping into the top 3 because the chances of staying there are less than 50%. So if the Spurs are 4 or 5, they're likely to end up lower. But like I've said elsewhere, it's a bunch of supa-balla types up there anyway, so it's Uncle Dennis City if they take one of them.

[ambchang]

One season of us tanking and we could truly start our rebuild which will still take 3+ years easily. Inevitably picking 7th in no strategy.

Didn’t realize the spurs were actually aiming for the 7th pick. I wouldve actually thought the spurs wanted the number 1 pick over the 7th pick. But thanks for the education on how percentages lead to inevitability.

[KingKev]

Didn’t realize the spurs were actually aiming for the 7th pick. I wouldve actually thought the spurs wanted the number 1 pick over the 7th pick. But thanks for the education on how percentages lead to inevitability.

There is still halg a season of basketball left. When the tank war heats up that 4-5 game buffer we have with team near the play-in could get tight. Additionally, we are already seeing teams rest players against us resulting in more needless wins.

I’m not confident Pop will gift us a high lottery pick on his way out.

[ambchang]

There is still halg a season of basketball left. When the tank war heats up that 4-5 game buffer we have with team near the play-in could get tight. Additionally, we are already seeing teams rest players against us resulting in more needless wins.

I’m not confident Pop will gift us a high lottery pick on his way out.

Not sure what will happen with the ping pong balls. This thing is called the lottery for a reason. The spurs lucked into bottoming out at the right time. This year is a (or at least is shaping up to be) a deep draft so even if the spurs didn’t pick in the top two they will still have a chance to draft an impact player.

Obviously getting pick #1 is better than getting 2, then 3, etc. but if the spurs land somewhere in the 3 to 7 range they can still draft a top prospect. The spurs have a proven history of maximizing players potential. There are some misses (Luka who was lazy, and primo who was crazy) but guys like white, Murray, Johnson and to an extent Vassell has produced more than their draft positions. Even players like poetl grew with the spurs. People focus heavily on draft positions as if drafting high will guarantee a good player when post draft training is arguably as important. Houston is a dumpster fire because there isn’t enough training and development for these very talented kids. Spurs have continuously turned out decent players because of that ideal. Having a 7th pick isn’t ideal but it’s not the end of the world.

[Seventyniner]

Not sure what will happen with the ping pong balls. This thing is called the lottery for a reason. The spurs lucked into bottoming out at the right time. This year is a (or at least is shaping up to be) a deep draft so even if the spurs didn’t pick in the top two they will still have a chance to draft an impact player.

Obviously getting pick #1 is better than getting 2, then 3, etc. but if the spurs land somewhere in the 3 to 7 range they can still draft a top prospect. The spurs have a proven history of maximizing players potential. There are some misses (Luka who was lazy, and primo who was crazy) but guys like white, Murray, Johnson and to an extent Vassell has produced more than their draft positions. Even players like poetl grew with the spurs. People focus heavily on draft positions as if drafting high will guarantee a good player when post draft training is arguably as important. Houston is a dumpster fire because there isn’t enough training and development for these very talented kids. Spurs have continuously turned out decent players because of that ideal. Having a 7th pick isn’t ideal but it’s not the end of the world.

The higher your draft slot is, the harder it is to outperform that draft slot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite impressed at the FO's a en in picking Murray/White/Keldon at the bottom of the first and developing them into good players. It seems odd that their recent misses have come in the 12-19 range.

[Ariel]

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite impressed at the FO's a en in picking Murray/White/Keldon at the bottom of the first and developing them into good players. It seems odd that their recent misses have come in the 12-19 range.

"a diamond in the rough is easier to spot among turds", so to speak. Doesn't mean you can't screw up, but it's easier to spot others'.