Wembanyama working on the sky hook

[Vince Carter's ankle]

But wouldn’t the argument goes both ways? Why did hakeem get the benefit of the doubt with a bad roster while robinson gets labelled a choker? Hakeem had his greatest years surrounded by three point shooters. Robinson had Avery Johnson and Vinny del negro.

because Admiral underperformed in the playoffs year after year
here are the statistics of both from 24 to 30 years (even without Hakeem's championship seasons)

Olajuwon
regular season:
23.6 pts 12.8 reb 2.6 ast 2.1 stl 3.8 blk 51.0 fg%
play-offs:
26.8 pts 13.2 reb 3.1 ast 1.8 stl 4.2 blk 54.6 fg%

Robinson
regular season:
25.6 pts 11.8 reb 3.1 ast 1.7 stl 3.6 blk 52.6 fg%
play-offs:
24.0 pts 11.8 reb 2.9 ast 1.3 stl 3.1 blk 48.8 fg%

[Atl Spur]

Wembanyama has kind of a perverse advantage over Robinson, being 19 rather than 24. First, the team is not going into win-now mode and assembling a still-flawed team with a short shelf life like the early ‘90s Spurs did. Second, it’s going to take him a few years to have the impact that 50 did as a rookie, so if his teammates are ty, he won’t be able to carry them to a winning record by himself, so there will be more high draft picks to buttress the talent level around him.

I don’t think Victor needs a sky hook. Kareem developed it because his handles as a kid weren’t great and he was always being stripped. With the hook shot, he hardly needed to dribble — just receive the ball in his spot and immediately go high. Wemby’s jump shot already is unguardable.

VW needs to use every advantage afforded to him…even the skyhook. The more tools the merrier.

[exstatic]

VW needs to use every advantage afforded to him…even the skyhook. The more tools the merrier.

Kareem went to the sky hook when the NCAA outlawed the dunk for a few stupid years. It was the most efficient non-dunk shot, but there's no reason at his height and length that he shouldn't just dunk everything in sight.

[KobesAchilles]

I love Robinson but he wasn’t as good as Hakeem. He was better than Akeem. But Hakeem was on a different level. But the 95 series doesn’t prove anything other than ty coaching. Imagine not double teaming Hakeem. I mean seriously who would do such a stupid thing. Meanwhile the Rockets (Rudy T) correctly double and triple teamed Dave the whole series.

That being said, it would’ve been nice to see an actual team built around Robinson. Like imagine if he could kick it out to Horry, Cassell, Maxwell, Smith. Instead he had no shooters other than Elliot. Maybe Chuck Person but he was always a no factor in the playoffs. Vinny, AJ, Rodman couldn’t shoot worth .

I can’t compare Duncan to Robinson though since I don’t think even Duncan could’ve done much better than DRob during that early 90s era. Imagine having 6 different coaches in 5 years and your owner won’t pay for anybody good. McCombs would’ve let Manu and Tony walk

[lefty]

I love Robinson but he wasn’t as good as Hakeem. He was better than Akeem. But Hakeem was on a different level. But the 95 series doesn’t prove anything other than ty coaching. Imagine not double teaming Hakeem. I mean seriously who would do such a stupid thing. Meanwhile the Rockets (Rudy T) correctly double and triple teamed Dave the whole series.

That being said, it would’ve been nice to see an actual team built around Robinson. Like imagine if he could kick it out to Horry, Cassell, Maxwell, Smith. Instead he had no shooters other than Elliot. Maybe Chuck Person but he was always a no factor in the playoffs. Vinny, AJ, Rodman couldn’t shoot worth .

I can’t compare Duncan to Robinson though since I don’t think even Duncan could’ve done much better than DRob during that early 90s era. Imagine having 6 different coaches in 5 years and your owner won’t pay for anybody good. McCombs would’ve let Manu and Tony walk

This

Dream was better than Robinson, but a lof of things went wrong during the 95 WCF as well (Rodman being a dumbass for instance lol)

As for context, nobody was going to leave the Spurs backcourt wide open , whereas Dream was surrounded by an army of ultra clutch playoff 3 pt shooters (and it was during the shortened 3 pt era so they were really deadly)

Sean also choked a bunch of FT's at the end of game 1

[CorrectCrusader]

because Admiral underperformed in the playoffs year after year
here are the statistics of both from 24 to 30 years (even without Hakeem's championship seasons)

Olajuwon
regular season:
23.6 pts 12.8 reb 2.6 ast 2.1 stl 3.8 blk 51.0 fg%
play-offs:
26.8 pts 13.2 reb 3.1 ast 1.8 stl 4.2 blk 54.6 fg%

Robinson
regular season:
25.6 pts 11.8 reb 3.1 ast 1.7 stl 3.6 blk 52.6 fg%
play-offs:
24.0 pts 11.8 reb 2.9 ast 1.3 stl 3.1 blk 48.8 fg%

Those playoff drops aren't that big. Embiid dropped what, 12 ppg in these playoffs? 1.6ppg drop isn't crazy.

[ambchang]

Spurs had prime Elliot and Rodman. Either of those teams gets blown off the floor by the 13-14 Spurs. The 1 v 1 matchup was the point. The larger discussion was about whether big men should develop post moves, such as the sky hook.

All I said was yes, post moves are a must IMO, look at 95 and then 03 Duncan wrecking prime Shaq.

Not trying to be smug, but wanted to know if you actually watched the series. The reason I asked is why you would bring up Rodman as he was some sort of positive. He was the primary reason the Spurs lost. He refused to guard anyone and left Horry wide open for shot after shot in the entire series so he could hang around the basket to pad his rebound stats.Horry shot freaking 42.5% from 3 that series when he shot 38% in the regular season and 40% overall in the playoffs. And that game winner he nailed in Game 1? He got it after Sean missed both FTs before that. Speaking of Sean, he shot one more shot than Avery Johnson, a largely non-shooter, in the entire series, you know why? Because the Rockets were leaving Johnson (and also Del Negro) wide open to double, sometimes triple Robinson throughout the entire series. The Spurs, on the other hand, went on record to say they won't double Hakeem. In fact, they were playing 4 on 5 on defence because former DPoY Dennis Rodman would rather leave his man open possession after possession to pad his rebounding stats, and he wasn't even that good at it when compared to his regular season numbers with 15 a game. Rodman had the ORtg of 99 in the series, by far the lowest of any starters. He sucked.

Speaking of Duncan in 03, thoughts on him shooting 42.5% in the series in 02 vs. the Lakers? it wasn't because he didn't have a post move, it's because the paint was crowded as the NY subway during rush hour when Parker, Daniels, Smith can't shoot. Big men needs perimeter to open up the paint for them to operate. Hakeem didn't have that until the mid 90s. Even the 99s Spurs team, known to be severely lacking offensively, had Mario Ellie and Jaren Jackson nailing outside shots. Robinson had Avery Johnson (cut twice as Hakeem's 3rd string point guard) and Vinny Del Negro (as bad a player as he was a coach) in the backcourt, sprinkled with Lloyd Daniels and Negele Knight. Robinson would kill to have Sleepy Floyd Daniels in his backcourt.

Oh, and Shaq scored 25.3ppg on 56% shooting in that series. Duncan was better, but we have Kobe Bryant to thank (along with Kevin Willis, and of course, David Robinson defending him).

[ambchang]

because Admiral underperformed in the playoffs year after year
here are the statistics of both from 24 to 30 years (even without Hakeem's championship seasons)

Olajuwon
regular season:
23.6 pts 12.8 reb 2.6 ast 2.1 stl 3.8 blk 51.0 fg%
play-offs:
26.8 pts 13.2 reb 3.1 ast 1.8 stl 4.2 blk 54.6 fg%

Robinson
regular season:
25.6 pts 11.8 reb 3.1 ast 1.7 stl 3.6 blk 52.6 fg%
play-offs:
24.0 pts 11.8 reb 2.9 ast 1.3 stl 3.1 blk 48.8 fg%

Bird:
Regular season:
24.3 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 49.6 FG%

Playoffs:
23.8 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 6.5asp, 1.8 spg, 0.9bpg, 47.2 FG%

And that was heavily weighted for his prime when the Celtics were going deep in the playoffs. Was he a choker?

Defending the Robinson Spurs were easy. You just double Robinson and dare the other guys to shoot. That was the formula for every single year and everybody knows. In Robinson's rookie and sop re seasons, he actually played better in the playoffs, you know why? He had Rod Strickland and Willie Anderson wasn't severely injured then to open up the lanes for him. he had mings doing the dirty work and boxing out for him. Every single opponent of the Spurs who beat them chose to limit Robinson with double and triple teams, leaving the "shooters" wide opened instead of staying home with the shooters and let Robinson get his share, because it was the easier way to beat the Spurs. Letting Spurs perimeter players shoot wide open jumpers (and sometimes 3s) yield less points than only single teaming or soft doubling Robinson.

[Knoxxx]

Sean also choked a bunch of FT's at the end of game 1

That was what I remembered the most and why I thought if Robinson could maintain equal footing with Hakeem the series was ours. That is not to blame Robinson for the loss, just one way we could have won it.

Sky hook: Yes - if he can hit 50%
Dream shake - probably overkill on the footwork side for Wemby I still consider that move traveling with my Spurs homer glasses.
Good solid all around post footwork and moves - YES
Duncan "signature" low 40% overrated bank shot - no thanks

Most important item bolded.

As far as Rodman, I don't recall him being that big a clown as he actually was, no argument there as our Big 3 at the time did not get the job done in 95.

[baseline bum]

Not trying to be smug, but wanted to know if you actually watched the series. The reason I asked is why you would bring up Rodman as he was some sort of positive. He was the primary reason the Spurs lost. He refused to guard anyone and left Horry wide open for shot after shot in the entire series so he could hang around the basket to pad his rebound stats.Horry shot freaking 42.5% from 3 that series when he shot 38% in the regular season and 40% overall in the playoffs. And that game winner he nailed in Game 1? He got it after Sean missed both FTs before that. Speaking of Sean, he shot one more shot than Avery Johnson, a largely non-shooter, in the entire series, you know why? Because the Rockets were leaving Johnson (and also Del Negro) wide open to double, sometimes triple Robinson throughout the entire series. The Spurs, on the other hand, went on record to say they won't double Hakeem. In fact, they were playing 4 on 5 on defence because former DPoY Dennis Rodman would rather leave his man open possession after possession to pad his rebounding stats, and he wasn't even that good at it when compared to his regular season numbers with 15 a game. Rodman had the ORtg of 99 in the series, by far the lowest of any starters. He sucked.

What a monster performance from Rodman in a must win Game 2.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...505240SAS.html

[rjv]

I love Robinson but he wasn’t as good as Hakeem. He was better than Akeem. But Hakeem was on a different level. But the 95 series doesn’t prove anything other than ty coaching. Imagine not double teaming Hakeem. I mean seriously who would do such a stupid thing. Meanwhile the Rockets (Rudy T) correctly double and triple teamed Dave the whole series.

That being said, it would’ve been nice to see an actual team built around Robinson. Like imagine if he could kick it out to Horry, Cassell, Maxwell, Smith. Instead he had no shooters other than Elliot. Maybe Chuck Person but he was always a no factor in the playoffs. Vinny, AJ, Rodman couldn’t shoot worth .

I can’t compare Duncan to Robinson though since I don’t think even Duncan could’ve done much better than DRob during that early 90s era. Imagine having 6 different coaches in 5 years and your owner won’t pay for anybody good. McCombs would’ve let Manu and Tony walk

that playoff debacle is basically what got bob hill fired.

[ducks]

Kareem had great footwork which is the first thing to master when learning a proper hook shot...
Wemby has great footwork already and will only get better.

Kareem would keep defenders off balance by being able to back up and "place defenders" on his hip and in position to take his steps and the actual shot was automatic.

Kareem also could shoot the sky hook from 12-15 feet consistently.

Wemby is going to nail it pretty quickly - i think.

Better hope he nails