Jrue holiday?

[MultiTroll]

No offense to Bruno but I don't see Tre as a"steady, solid" PG... He's a back up PG in any non tanking team... He's neutral at best, not a picknroll nor a shooting or driving threat that would open lines or space for Wemby. Not sure about his lob game either.

Spurs need a dynamic, skilled PG or swingman who can drive, shoot and lob to play the two man game with Wemby.

+ he's a defensive liability for sure.
So right off the bat you've got Wemby having to compensate.
Okay so perhaps it's just temp and relatively low cost as they wait for a real PG thru another draft or trade.

Hoping this isn't another Pops Pets movie. Bryn Bryn started what, 151 of 152 games? If so, ownership / FO need to get a spine and act quickly.

[CGD]

Im not giving up assets for a 1 year rental of Jrue Holiday. He’s a good player, but no way he extends with the Spurs beyond his current deal. It’s the same reason Portland is hot to flip him now.

[JeffDuncan]

I always loved Jrue as a player. One of the most underrated players of this generation. I wouldn't give up a first for him in our situation though.

Although, I wonder if we trade for him now …

How? What can the Spurs offer that the Blazers would accept?

They don’t want guards. They don’t want a starting center. A forward? They have Jerami Grant.

What’s the offer?

[DAF86]

How? What can the Spurs offer that the Blazers would accept?

They don’t want guards. They don’t want a starting center. A forward? They have Jerami Grant.

What’s the offer?

I'm talking about giving up a first round pick and maybe get it back (or more) at the trade deadline.

Not even saying I would do it, just asking if that hypothetical could happen.

[spurraider21]

I'm talking about giving up a first round pick and maybe get it back (or more) at the trade deadline.

Not even saying I would do it, just asking if that hypothetical could happen.

we'd have to send back salary to make it work

in theory, something like graham + bullock + birch/osman

blazers only have 12 guys on the roster now

[jjspur]

With or without (99.99 % without) Jrue Holliday, the spurs will still be better than last year for few reasons.
!. Need I even say it Wemby. With out even playing a single game yet, he is at least our second best player and will (barring injury) be our best player by the end of the season.
2. We don't have bottom of the barrel scrubs like Langford or Dieng any more. Didn't notice either of them getting a multi year deal this summer.
3. The team will at least try to win. After starting fairly well, Pop probably told the team what are you doing ? we are trying really hard to tank for a chance at Wemby. Luckily for us that strategy paid off. Not to mention there are no generational talents in next years draft.
4. Other teams lost players due to trades, signing with other teams or their contracts not being picked up. The landscape has changed possibly allowing the spurs to move up a few spots in the standings.

The spurs didn't do much in the summer essentially bring back the same crew plus a few low cost additions. The spurs had no reason to win last year other than to win the Wemby sweepstakes, this year is different. We have a bit more overall talent so its likely to turn into several more wins. If a few things fall the right way, we could be looking at a play in slot. If we don't we'll have 2 possibly 3 draft picks in the next draft. Either way it looks like a positive year for the spurs fans with or without Jrue Holliday (most likely without).

[Proxy]

why do people want to max out the team's potential this year jfc, we don't even know what we have with them tanking last year. Some of yall think we're still in 'Big 3 are old' mode

[Bruno]

No offense to Bruno but I don't see Tre as a"steady, solid" PG... He's a back up PG in any non tanking team... He's neutral at best, not a picknroll nor a shooting or driving threat that would open lines or space for Wemby. Not sure about his lob game either.

Spurs need a dynamic, skilled PG or swingman who can drive, shoot and lob to play the two man game with Wemby.

None taken because I agree with you. Tre isn't starting material and Spurs should definitively look for a starting PG in the future.

My point is that Tre main quality is to be a good "floor general". With him on the court, Spurs' offense will be under control and won't be a train-wreck which is crucial for the development of other players. He is more a Jacque Vaughn than a Beno Udrih.

[rankingtear]

The value of Jrue for a contender is way more than anyone can stomach as a key vet for this team.

[CorrectCrusader]

Im not giving up assets for a 1 year rental of Jrue Holiday. He’s a good player, but no way he extends with the Spurs beyond his current deal. It’s the same reason Portland is hot to flip him now.

He said he wants to retire at the end of his current contract.

[CGD]

He said he wants to retire at the end of his current contract.

I think he means he wants one more deal before he retires. He will opt out of his player option next summer, and get one more massive pay day. I don’t see him doing that in SA or Portland for that matter, he wants to compete for a chmapionship.

[rankingtear]

[JeffDuncan]

I think he means he wants one more deal before he retires. He will opt out of his player option next summer, and get one more massive pay day. I don’t see him doing that in SA or Portland for that matter, he wants to compete for a chmapionship.

You think wrong. My man, his current contract *is* his massive payday. He’ll be 34 years old when it’s time to sign that player option next season, and the amount is $39.4 million, with another $2 million in likely incentives. That is over $41 million, again as mentioned, at age 34. Then, at age 35, he will retire.

Nobody is going to offer him that kind of contract again at age 34 or 35. NBA players don’t last forever and everybody knows it. Generally speaking, age 35 is the end of the career.

Holiday was part of the Lillard trade for salary matching. The Bucks didn’t really want to give Holiday up, but hey, it’s Damien Lillard, so they did what they had to do.

The Blazers probably insisted on Holiday because they knew he’d be the easiest to trade onward to another team. All else equal, they’d keep Holiday, I’m sure, but they don’t have minutes for him. They just drafted Scoot, after drafting Sharpe last year, and they have Simons too. The young guys have to get the floor time so the Blazers can see how they stand at the guard position without Lillard. Rebuilding, in other words.

Holiday makes no sense for the Spurs. He can’t be part of a good Wemby team in 3 years. Age. Plus, there’s the practical matter that the Spurs have no way to trade for him. Well, the Spurs do have one thing that would have the Blazers falling all over themselves to work out a deal, but there ain’t no chance in .

[exstatic]

The crappy thing for Portland is that the teams that have the picks have no use for Jrue. Maaaaybe BKN if they want to accelerate their time line.

[Mr. Body]

I just don't see how they get two FRPs for him. Nobody has that who wants him. My feel is that there are fewer suitors here than admitted. He'll go somewhere good, but probably for a single first and some seconds maybe. Don't see how he gets more than Lillard did in a pick package (ignoring protections).

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Jesus, worse than Portland? Not expecting playoffs or anything but don't see this as another 22 win team.

I mean, this was written in August, but yeah...

https://www.nba.com/news/offseason-p...ings-west-2023

[JeffDuncan]

I just don't see how they get two FRPs for him. Nobody has that who wants him. My feel is that there are fewer suitors here than admitted. He'll go somewhere good, but probably for a single first and some seconds maybe. Don't see how he gets more than Lillard did in a pick package (ignoring protections).

A lot will depend on the players who are offered. If the Blazers can get a good young player as part of the deal, who fits their timeline, that would have the value of a draft pick. But I don’t know who could, or would, include a player like that as part of a Jrue trade.

Maybe it should be read as, the equivalent of two FRPs, with the equivalent being their judgment call. We’ll find out soon enough, I suppose.

[Mr. Body]

A lot will depend on the players who are offered. If the Blazers can get a good young player as part of the deal, who fits their timeline, that would have the value of a draft pick. But I don’t know who could, or would, include a player like that as part of a Jrue trade.

Maybe it should be read as, the equivalent of two FRPs, with the equivalent being their judgment call. We’ll find out soon enough, I suppose.

The tweet saying at 2 FRPs is Portland understandably trying to set the market. It's like how the Sixers would feed the press info about how much interest when they were trying to create interest in Ben Simmons. I do see it more likely a decent player or two plus a FRP.

Like you said, I don't know what playoff team has a young player or two to cough up. Plus Jrue seems like he's going to opt out next summer looking for a longer contract, so is it worth losing him after a year or paying through the nose for a guy who's 33?

I can see a team like Pelicans going for him. Word is there's not much interest in a LAC-PHI-POR move.

[spurraider21]

btw, while holiday previously said back in 2022 that he was feeling very strongly about retiring at the end of this contract, he has since walked it back

"Just them being my friends and we've talked about stages in basketball and sometimes you go through modes or hard spots where like, even with my family, maybe the best thing to do is retire or even just being tired and being exhausted, playing a lot of basketball. But no," Holiday told Owczarski. "My answer is no, I'm not retiring."

[scott]

I don't think we're disagreeing that much, honestly. I just think that using two of the tier picks is them enjoying an opportunity that most other teams can't. Most team's aren't going to have multiple firsts they can trade with it not being a big deal. For most other teams, it's a real future sacrifice. For the Spurs, we're talking completely moveable assets. For the reasons I've said, I think it could be worth the gamble. Even the ty firsts have real value, as you said, but they don't have that value forever. They passed on potential opportunities to convert some of those picks into more immediate opportunities during the draft. Even after this, they'll have more opportunities. I just hope they don't "hold" their ways into pissing away those assets. That feels way more likely than not at this point though.



I don't see "seeing what we have" to mean that they have to let the players run around like headless chickens. Most players are not stars or have rotations built around their leadership or skill. In theory it's nice to see if Vassell or Keldon can become stable players with a higher option in the lineup. But what are we actually hoping for here? Do we wish that Vassell becomes a ball-dominant scorer or that Keldon gets a good iso game? Are we hoping that Tre Jones learns to score to the point that he's a decent PG? Personally, I'm hoping that they can become decent role-players who can fit in with stars when those develop or are brought in.

I'm sort of annoyed at how much the Spurs have neglected drafting or developing role-players since 2016. At some point they need to stop playing with the idea that X or Y can be a lead play-maker and instead ask "Can they shoot? Can they defend? Do they know how to do little things on the court?" That means you have to be willing to ramp up the compe ion guys like Branham, Wesley and the like get. No one who can't beat out Tre Jones is good enough to ignore getting an All-Star and champion player. The scenario that you bring up, where most of the team flops to justify bringing in six to ten new players over the next two drafts is a horror show, and I simply cannot imagine that many players being that irredeemably bad. That would be bad enough to cost basically the entire front office and staff their jobs. The team should absolutely be looking into upgrading their core, but that means they need to actually upgrade it when they have the chance and not just add lotto tickets to it.

Even in the pre-contending phase, they shouldn't just be looking at the draft to gain talent. They have plenty of salary flexibility now that doesn't roll over. Wasting that or selling it for cheap isn't innately smart. They should be looking at every tool to acquire and upgrade talent. They should not be sitting their passively waiting for a contending core to fall into their laps.

In addition to a lot of the thoughts in this thread, I'd be interested in sending the CHA and CHI picks for Jrue because if things don't really work out that well with Jrue, worst case is that he showcases on a bad team and you flip him for similar value that you gave up to get him, but perhaps on more favorable terms in regards to timing. Both the CHA and CHI picks are inconveniently timed in that they are likely to be our 3rd pick in a year they convey, if they convey at all.

[scott]

So no way the Spurs are bottom 5 then y'all list a bunch of unknowns to support your argument. That doesn't make sense. You have no idea what Pop wants to do. That's the most important unknown. He may be content to go super slow with Wemby and rest him a ton, all with no great point guard options. That's the likely scenario based on what the FO and Pop have been signalling and by how they approached the off-season. So in a sense, if you admit there are so many unknowns you should acknowledge that the lottery is very much a possibility too.

I think the Spurs are probably around 10 games better via the addition of Wemby and not intentionally tanking. 10 games better puts them at 32 wins, which would be the 5th worst record in the league.

[Seventyniner]

Jrue just got traded to the Celtics for Brogdon, Robert Williams, and two firsts (GS 2024 protected 1-4, BOS 2029 unprotected).

Probably a slight positive for the Spurs' 2028 pick swap with Boston cause Jrue will most likely be out of the league by then, but a team's record in one year and their record 5 years later have almost no correlation historically.

[Degoat]

Honestly pretty steep of a deal for The C’s giving up as much as they did. I kinda like what Portland has done. Having Robert Williams and Ayton will be interesting if they keep both.

[Leetonidas]

Honestly pretty steep of a deal for The C’s giving up as much as they did. I kinda like what Portland has done. Having Robert Williams and Ayton will be interesting if they keep both.

Brogdon is always injured and was not happy with almost being traded to the Clippers before. Williams likewise is incredibly injury prone. They didn't lose much imho. Especially with White on the roster, Brogdon was expendable


Williams and Ayton are not a fit at all in 2023

[spurraider21]

Lillard haul ends up being Ayton, Pat Williams, Brogdon, 3 firsts, 3 swaps

one of the firsts is ass, 2024 from warriors. The others are unprotected and well out into future

Cronin did well