Let’s say PG, SG, and C positions are set. If you could wish for any SF or PF to be disgruntled and ask for a trade, who would be worth giving everything up for?

[Dejounte]

Are we seriously acting as if Wemby can run and run like the Rockets do when you all have made observations all year how he huffs and puffs and struggled with energy levels all year? Come on.

edit: why do I get the feeling that LeBowen is going to answer yes to this because he’s obsessed with winning the argument and not trying to understand the other person’s point? You win, man. You’re right? Happy?

[LeBowen]

You think me saying Wemby is an imperfect human being with physical limitations is laying judgment on him as a whole.

No, I just can't accept the "plagued on defense" thing because it sounds as if Wemby is a negative that needs to be compensated for.
His length is so overwhelming that it compensates for almost all of his lack of strength even in his second season.
Just watch the matchups against Jokic and how different Jokic's shots were compared to what he usually does just because he had to adjust to Wemby.
Yeah, physical bigs can back him down all the way under the basket, but he's so long that it doesn't really matter and there's only so few of those players it's not worth worrying about.
And even fewer of them will be able to hang with Wemby on the other end once we improve our spacing.
Like how's Zubac going to defend Fox/Castle going downhill while Wemby is his matchup?

Wemby, as we’ve seen all year, prefers to play on the wing on offense. That’s a fact.

Doesn't have anything to do with defense. I'd say that most coaches would completely eliminate bigs if defense and rim protection wasn't an issue.

He also gets switched out on a perimeter player throughout a basketball game, whether by design, choice, or opposing team’s strategy. That’s also a fact. Both of these are due to his physical limitations.

Every single big in the history of the game got switched on the perimeter, what's even your point?
Not even all-defense guards with similar size can stay with offensive superstars due to how the game is officiated, Wemby's ability to contest both 3pt shots and rim attacks with his length is more than enough for us not to worry about the scenarios you're writing about.

Oops, are those triggering words again?

No, plague was the trigger word, you made it sound as if he was a worse defender than LMA.

The Rockets, are again, a different team than the Spurs and play a completely different style that the Spurs are unable to play because they have WEMBY.

It doesn't matter who the C is if perimeter players are completely lost when it comes to defensive positioning and boxing out.
Wemby is a better rebounder and more mobile than Sengun, apples and oranges argument doesn't have anything to do with Spurs constantly being out of position after the shot goes up and having awful rebounding instincts.
They're just a bunch of ball-watchers, I'd argue that CP3 is the third best rebounder on the team after Wemby and Jeremy because he's the only perimeter player who knows where to move while the shot is going up and not wait for it to bounce off the rim.

[LeBowen]

Are we seriously acting as if Wemby can run and run like the Rockets do when you all have made observations all year how he huffs and puffs and struggled with energy levels all year? Come on.

I thought this argument was about defensive rebounding, not our style of play or pace?

You're a regular, you know that most of us agree Wemby's biggest issue is conditioning, but in your posts you make it sound as if he's not going to improve it.
Conditioning is different than strength.

Back to Jokic matchup, even though severely outmatched if we're talking strength, Wemby was fine for like 3 quarters while he still had stamina. Then he got ran over because fat man has better conditioning.

[cutewizard]

Chamberlain is the best center of all time tbh

[mo7888]

On this Wemby needing help rebounding topic, I agree with alot of the points being made here (from him needing help to him helping himself through conditioning). The one thing I may see a little differently is where this help comes from. There seems to be a consensus that this help needs to be in the form of a starting 4. While, I think that would be optimal, I think there are other options depending how we structure the rest of the team. For instance, a backup 4/5 who is a top notch rebounder can fit in a 3 man rotation very nicely and accomplish alot of what we want. Castle rebounding at the 2 and an improved rebounder from the 3 in the SL likewise can cover this shortcoming. I realize with some of this I'm preaching to the choir, so to speak, but those points seem lost in the debate a little bit so I thought I'd mention it.

[scott]

I’ll say it again. The Spurs need a strong PF that has tree trunks for legs, ideally weighs more than 240 lb, has enough length to cover true centers, knows how to box out and do the dirty work on the boards, not afraid of bumping players in the paint, and has enough agility to sometimes switch out to perimeter players.

Who is this mythical player? Keep in mind this guy needs to also be a good 3 point shooter.

For the most part, this position is kind of a "pick 2 of the 3" kind of thing, as someone who possesses all three of the following traits really doesn't exist and, if he does, is a max contract guy or on rookie deals/rookie extensions and aren't really attainable:

-3 pt shooter
-Good defender
-Good rebounder

Of this, who is who I think is reasonably attainable (meaning won't cost Castle and multiple FRPs, though some of these guys might be headed towards resigning with their current teams and may not *actually* be available). Whether or not these are the kind of defender you are talking about is another question.

All of the percentiles quoted are from CraftedNBA.com. The rebounding numbers are CraftedNBA's Rebounding Quality metric. 3P%s are this season's.

Toumani Camara - 37.8% 3P%, 91st % CraftedDPM, 92nd % OREB, 70th % DREB
Santi Aldama - 36.8% 3P%, 56th % CraftedDPM, 53rd % OREB, 36th % DREB
Tobias Harris - 33.6% 3P%, 86th % CraftedDPM, 72nd % OREB, 91% DREB
Naz Reid - 38.9% 3P%, 85th % CraftedDPM, 34th % OREB, 49th % DREB
Dean Wade - 35.2% 3P%, 97th % CraftedDPM, 50th % OREB, 88th % DREB
John Collins - 39.9% 3P%, 43rd % CraftedDPM, 78th % OREB, 87% DREB
Cam Johnson - 39.0% 3P%, 28th % CraftedDPM, 60th % OREB, 64th % DREB
Obi Toppin - 37.2% 3P%, 16th % CraftedDPM, 63rd % OREB, 41st % DREB
Jarace Walker - 38.5% 3P%, 64th % CraftedDPM, 22nd % OREB, 84th% DREB
Guerschon Yabusele - 38.3% 3P%, 19th % CraftedDPM, 37th % OREB, 43rd % DREB

The guy who seems to do all three things best is Camara (who I'd love to get), but is more your Versatile D Big and not the burly tree trunks for legs guy you describe (though maybe he can do that... I honestly don't know)

I'm with you that the guy you describe who can also shoot 3s would be awesome... but I think everyone in the league is searching for that same guy. Who is he? You pretty much have to "give" on at least one of the three criteria I laid out above. It's like the old saying "Cheap, Fast or Good... you can only pick 2".

[spurraider21]

if you are talking pure archetype, this is why Fleming would be a nice target with the Hawks pick. i think top 10 is too early for him, but if its very late lotto or in the mid-teens, i think he's a fair pick there.

[scott]

On this Wemby needing help rebounding topic, I agree with alot of the points being made here (from him needing help to him helping himself through conditioning). The one thing I may see a little differently is where this help comes from. There seems to be a consensus that this help needs to be in the form of a starting 4. While, I think that would be optimal, I think there are other options depending how we structure the rest of the team. For instance, a backup 4/5 who is a top notch rebounder can fit in a 3 man rotation very nicely and accomplish alot of what we want. Castle rebounding at the 2 and an improved rebounder from the 3 in the SL likewise can cover this shortcoming. I realize with some of this I'm preaching to the choir, so to speak, but those points seem lost in the debate a little bit so I thought I'd mention it.

Yeah I don't think we need Dennis Rodman to become a significantly better rebounding team. We just need a team that has had box outs drilled into their heads. We're actually a Top 10 team in Adjusted REB Chance %, but we are near the bottom in box outs and we're below the mid point in total rebounds per game... what does that tell me? We're just often not in a good position to get rebounds. If everyone could do a better job boxing out and lead to two more rebounds per game... all of a sudden we're a top 5 team in rebounds per game. The margins are that slim. I see the rebounding issue as more fundamental and less talent at this stage.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

if you are talking pure archetype, this is why Fleming would be a nice target with the Hawks pick. i think top 10 is too early for him, but if its very late lotto or in the mid-teens, i think he's a fair pick there.

You got it!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Dejounte and Lebowen, both of you are right! You basically agree with each other. I enjoy reading analysis from both of you.

Basic conclusion: Spurs next season will be a solid team, easily top 5 in the west, even without the big/fast/shooter you both mentioned. But if we add a player and draft a player like that, we will be instant contender.

[poopbox]

The Rockets’ defensive scheme will be nowhere near similar to what the Spurs will ever run because of Wemby’s strengths and weaknesses. The Spurs will always be plagued by Wemby’s physical limitations against brute players (big and small), so they will need a player or players to counterbalance that. Does Jabari defend bigs well and is he a decent rebounder are valid questions based on what the Spurs need. We can’t keep losing the rebound battle. This isn’t only about being better than Sochan. That’s not enough for the Spurs to truly succeed. It’s also about finding the best fit.

I’ll say it again. The Spurs need a strong PF that has tree trunks for legs, ideally weighs more than 240 lb, has enough length to cover true centers, knows how to box out and do the dirty work on the boards, not afraid of bumping players in the paint, and has enough agility to sometimes switch out to perimeter players.

It's not 1985 anymore. Very few post players even play with their back to the basket. If Jabari can make it work next to Sengun who is a complete sieve on defense he will be fine next to Victor. It's not like we need these two guys to guard 5 other guys themselves. I actually think Jabari is the perfect player to put next to Wemby. Has enough of an offensive game to give him the ball and clear out against smaller players, will shoot open 3's and he would get a lot of them on the court with Fox and Wemby, and doesn't complain about touches or roles. He definitely get more minutes here than in Houston where they are trying to play 4 and 5 guys at the power forward position.
What "true centers"? There are like 5 in the league and two of them are Jokic and Embiid who will also initiate offense out of the triple threat away from the basket.

[Dejounte]

Who is this mythical player? Keep in mind this guy needs to also be a good 3 point shooter.

For the most part, this position is kind of a "pick 2 of the 3" kind of thing, as someone who possesses all three of the following traits really doesn't exist and, if he does, is a max contract guy or on rookie deals/rookie extensions and aren't really attainable:

-3 pt shooter
-Good defender
-Good rebounder

Of this, who is who I think is reasonably attainable (meaning won't cost Castle and multiple FRPs, though some of these guys might be headed towards resigning with their current teams and may not *actually* be available). Whether or not these are the kind of defender you are talking about is another question.

All of the percentiles quoted are from CraftedNBA.com. The rebounding numbers are CraftedNBA's Rebounding Quality metric. 3P%s are this season's.

Toumani Camara - 37.8% 3P%, 91st % CraftedDPM, 92nd % OREB, 70th % DREB
Santi Aldama - 36.8% 3P%, 56th % CraftedDPM, 53rd % OREB, 36th % DREB
Tobias Harris - 33.6% 3P%, 86th % CraftedDPM, 72nd % OREB, 91% DREB
Naz Reid - 38.9% 3P%, 85th % CraftedDPM, 34th % OREB, 49th % DREB
Dean Wade - 35.2% 3P%, 97th % CraftedDPM, 50th % OREB, 88th % DREB
John Collins - 39.9% 3P%, 43rd % CraftedDPM, 78th % OREB, 87% DREB
Cam Johnson - 39.0% 3P%, 28th % CraftedDPM, 60th % OREB, 64th % DREB
Obi Toppin - 37.2% 3P%, 16th % CraftedDPM, 63rd % OREB, 41st % DREB
Jarace Walker - 38.5% 3P%, 64th % CraftedDPM, 22nd % OREB, 84th% DREB
Guerschon Yabusele - 38.3% 3P%, 19th % CraftedDPM, 37th % OREB, 43rd % DREB

The guy who seems to do all three things best is Camara (who I'd love to get), but is more your Versatile D Big and not the burly tree trunks for legs guy you describe (though maybe he can do that... I honestly don't know)

I'm with you that the guy you describe who can also shoot 3s would be awesome... but I think everyone in the league is searching for that same guy. Who is he? You pretty much have to "give" on at least one of the three criteria I laid out above. It's like the old saying "Cheap, Fast or Good... you can only pick 2".

No, this player doesn’t need to “also be a 3 pt shooter”. You remove that filter and the list should widen.

I will respond more later…

[CGD]

Who is this mythical player? Keep in mind this guy needs to also be a good 3 point shooter.

For the most part, this position is kind of a "pick 2 of the 3" kind of thing, as someone who possesses all three of the following traits really doesn't exist and, if he does, is a max contract guy or on rookie deals/rookie extensions and aren't really attainable:

-3 pt shooter
-Good defender
-Good rebounder

Of this, who is who I think is reasonably attainable (meaning won't cost Castle and multiple FRPs, though some of these guys might be headed towards resigning with their current teams and may not *actually* be available). Whether or not these are the kind of defender you are talking about is another question.

All of the percentiles quoted are from CraftedNBA.com. The rebounding numbers are CraftedNBA's Rebounding Quality metric. 3P%s are this season's.

Toumani Camara - 37.8% 3P%, 91st % CraftedDPM, 92nd % OREB, 70th % DREB
Santi Aldama - 36.8% 3P%, 56th % CraftedDPM, 53rd % OREB, 36th % DREB
Tobias Harris - 33.6% 3P%, 86th % CraftedDPM, 72nd % OREB, 91% DREB
Naz Reid - 38.9% 3P%, 85th % CraftedDPM, 34th % OREB, 49th % DREB
Dean Wade - 35.2% 3P%, 97th % CraftedDPM, 50th % OREB, 88th % DREB
John Collins - 39.9% 3P%, 43rd % CraftedDPM, 78th % OREB, 87% DREB
Cam Johnson - 39.0% 3P%, 28th % CraftedDPM, 60th % OREB, 64th % DREB
Obi Toppin - 37.2% 3P%, 16th % CraftedDPM, 63rd % OREB, 41st % DREB
Jarace Walker - 38.5% 3P%, 64th % CraftedDPM, 22nd % OREB, 84th% DREB
Guerschon Yabusele - 38.3% 3P%, 19th % CraftedDPM, 37th % OREB, 43rd % DREB

The guy who seems to do all three things best is Camara (who I'd love to get), but is more your Versatile D Big and not the burly tree trunks for legs guy you describe (though maybe he can do that... I honestly don't know)

I'm with you that the guy you describe who can also shoot 3s would be awesome... but I think everyone in the league is searching for that same guy. Who is he? You pretty much have to "give" on at least one of the three criteria I laid out above. It's like the old saying "Cheap, Fast or Good... you can only pick 2".

It’s Jarabi Smith Jr

[CGD]

No, this player doesn’t need to “also be a 3 pt shooter”. You remove that filter and the list should widen.

I will respond more later…

He kinda does, if the vision is to start a Fox/Castle backcourt.

[scott]

No, this player doesn’t need to “also be a 3 pt shooter”. You remove that filter and the list should widen.

I will respond more later…

Okay, then I disagree that is what we need (and that's okay)

[scott]

It’s Jarabi Smith Jr

Jabari Smith Jr - 35.6% 3P%, 52nd % CraftedDPM, 67th % OREB, 65th % DREB

I think Jabari is just as good an option (aside from the fact that he is likely not attainable) as any of those other guys... but he's not really the mythical creature either, IMO.

Camara is the guy who I'd most want to inquire about. He's on such a steal of a contract though that he might be untouchable (I've talked before about how guys with absurd bargain contracts become more valuable than their on the court value actually dictates. Camara, Keon Ellis, even Champ are examples of this).

[Manu&Duncan fan]

No, this player doesn’t need to “also be a 3 pt shooter”. You remove that filter and the list should widen.

I will respond more later…

If that big guy is not a 3-point shooter, our ceiling is West Conference Finals, because we won't beat Thunders. if that big guy is Big, fast and 3-point shooter, then our ceiling is a NBA le. Basically we will be unbeatable.

[Ice009]

What do you think it would take to get Jabari Smith Jr? Sounds like he would be a really good fit on the Spurs. Better fit than on the Rockets.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

What do you think it would take to get Jabari Smith Jr? Sounds like he would be a really good fit on the Spurs. Better fit than on the Rockets.

The price will be too high that it scares Spurs away. Because Rockets would want to ship him somewhere else.

[ambchang]

Jabari Smith Jr - 35.6% 3P%, 52nd % CraftedDPM, 67th % OREB, 65th % DREB

I think Jabari is just as good an option (aside from the fact that he is likely not attainable) as any of those other guys... but he's not really the mythical creature either, IMO.

Camara is the guy who I'd most want to inquire about. He's on such a steal of a contract though that he might be untouchable (I've talked before about how guys with absurd bargain contracts become more valuable than their on the court value actually dictates. Camara, Keon Ellis, even Champ are examples of this).

There is no way in a million years Portland will trade him.

[exstatic]

The price will be too high that it scares Spurs away. Because Rockets would want to ship him somewhere else.

The Spurs might have a shot in a multiple team trade. I agree that Houston would be unlikely to trade him straight up to us, but in a shuffle to get Book? They’ll need to ship some contracts out, and we may throw in some assets and ending contracts to intercept him.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The Spurs might have a shot in a multiple team trade. I agree that Houston would be unlikely to trade him straight up to us, but in a shuffle to get Book? They’ll need to ship some contracts out, and we may throw in some assets and ending contracts to intercept him.

That will be nice!