De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[DAF86]

We're lumping Fox into this category now?

In which World is Fox not a bad defensive player?

[LeBowen]

In which World is Fox not a bad defensive player?

Guards under 200lbs, did it so I can keep the likes of Lamelo and Haliburton on the list while removing bigger guards like Edwards.

[Bruno]

So still worth taking a swing on with a late lottery pick?

Yes, he is but not for Spurs.

I think Castle is the real deal and will be Spurs' starting PG for the next decade.

[DAF86]

Guards under 200lbs, did it so I can keep the likes of Lamelo and Haliburton on the list while removing bigger guards like Edwards.

Why would you do that, though? The problem is exactly that he's under 200lbs. I don't care if he's good for an under 200lbs guard, he's bad overall. What's the point of Spurs targetting big guards to be their PGs, if they then go and trade for someone like Fox?

He's also a below average 3pt shooter. Why would anyone want to give up multiple assets for a bad 3 pt shooting guard that's gonna get targeted in playoffs ball? I don't understand spursfans obsession with putting a handicap on the team's ceiling so early into the process, tbh.

[objective]

The most recent Locked On Kings podcast led something like "Is this the beginning of the end for the Fox era?" ... is somewhat entertaining if you like to hear morose podcast hosts compare their team to an elderly sick animal that's been separated from the herd and singled out by the predators of the league.

I'm as lukewarm on Fox as I was for Markannen but I do recognize the diminishing value of the Hawks picks. I guess if the Spurs could dump Zollins in the deal I'd be in.

And I do think a mid season trade is possible .... Kings pick is protected top 12 in 25 and top 10 in 26 before it converts to 2nds. Dumping Fox now would guarantee keeping their picks if they reboot things.

[LeBowen]

Why would you do that, though?

Are you really that dense? I literally wrote why. I wanted to compare him to other point guards while removing bigger guards like Edwards. Guard who aren't able to run an offense, like we're seeing right now with Minnesota.

I don't care if he's good for an under 200lbs guard, he's bad overall.

No, he's not. He's average. Much like Barnes looked bad last season because Sabonis is one of the worst rim protectors in the league and he's been solid for us.

What's the point of Spurs targetting big guards to be their PGs, if they then go and trade for someone like Fox?

That entire assumption is based on Spurs not wanting Trae and Dillingham, two smallest players in the league. Fox has above average size for a point guard if we take his wingspan into account.

He's also a below average 3pt shooter.

If he was a 40% 3pt shooter, we'd be talking about a ridiculous asking price.

Why would anyone want to give up multiple assets for a bad 3 pt shooting guard that's gonna get targeted in playoffs ball?

34% isn't bad, it's below average, as you said.
Why would he get targeted? Are you serious? These takes are honestly why I hate this forum sometimes. 3pt shooting concerns are valid, max contract concerns are also valid, but you can't ing say he'd be targeted in the playoffs.
You just decided you don't like a player and are talking nonsense which can easily be disproved.

I don't understand spursfans obsession with putting a handicap on the team's ceiling so early into the process, tbh.

You know what's putting handicap on us? Not having a single reliable paint penetrator which makes our offense really easy to stop for good teams.
Every single top team in the league except OKC has a guard that's smaller than Fox in their starting lineup. And OKC is playing with no wings in their starting lineup.

Fox is one of the few all-star players that fit a lot of our needs including age, availability and asking price.
If we're talking legit starters, not even all-star players, very few realistic targets would fit us.

[DAF86]

Are you really that dense? I literally wrote why. I wanted to compare him to other point guards while removing bigger guards like Edwards. Guard who aren't able to run an offense, like we're seeing right now with Minnesota.



No, he's not. He's average. Much like Barnes looked bad last season because Sabonis is one of the worst rim protectors in the league and he's been solid for us.



That entire assumption is based on Spurs not wanting Trae and Dillingham, two smallest players in the league. Fox has above average size for a point guard if we take his wingspan into account.



If he was a 40% 3pt shooter, we'd be talking about a ridiculous asking price.



34% isn't bad, it's below average, as you said.
Why would he get targeted? Are you serious? These takes are honestly why I hate this forum sometimes. 3pt shooting concerns are valid, max contract concerns are also valid, but you can't ing say he'd be targeted in the playoffs.
You just decided you don't like a player and are talking nonsense which can easily be disproved.



You know what's putting handicap on us? Not having a single reliable paint penetrator which makes our offense really easy to stop for good teams.
Every single top team in the league except OKC has a guard that's smaller than Fox in their starting lineup. And OKC is playing with no wings in their starting lineup.

Fox is one of the few all-star players that fit a lot of our needs including age, availability and asking price.
If we're talking legit starters, not even all-star players, very few realistic targets would fit us.

Every under 200 lbs, 6' 3" guard gets targeted during the playoffs in today's NBA. You need to be prime Curry to overcome it.

If all you care about is raising the floor and securing a playoffs spot as soon as possible, then sure, by all means trade away assets for a tier 3 player like Fox. If you are actually serious about building a real contender for years to come without many major glaring weaknesses, then you are better off being patient and waiting for better opportunities to present themselves.

[scott]

In which World is Fox not a bad defensive player?

In which world is he one? This season, he ranks 50th percentile in Def EPM and 59th percentile in CraftedDPM. You're lumping him in with Trae Young, who is 5th and 2nd percentile in those categories.

But go on, share more of your wisdom with us.

[DAF86]

In which world is he one? This season, he ranks 50th percentile in Def EPM and 59th percentile in CraftedDPM. You're lumping him in with Trae Young, who is 5th and 2nd percentile in those categories.

But go on, share more of your wisdom with us.

No need, just read the comment above this, tbh.

[scott]

I love this thread because it's another opportunity for the usual populations to come out of the woodwork:

1) The "I think they should accept our trash" folks, and
2) The "he's not perfect enough for me... so therefor I think he sucks... but I love Branham" brigade

DAF86 has chosen a squad.

[LeBowen]

Every under 200 lbs, 6' 3" guard gets targeted during the playoffs in today's NBA. You need to be prime Curry to overcome it.

And yet every team has one. Because it's an offense oriented league and there's only so much you can do without triple threat creators.
Right now we have none of those.
Would I prefer we draft 6'7 Manu? Obviously, but odds of that are very low.

If all you care about is raising the floor and securing a playoffs spot as soon as possible, then sure, by all means trade away assets for a tier 3 player like Fox.

He's not a tier 3 player and the entire point of trading for him would be getting more than we gave up since he'll be on an expiring contract.

If you are actually serious about building a real contender for years to come without many major glaring weaknesses, then you are better off being patient and waiting for better opportunities to present themselves.

As I said, I'd also prefer the next great point forward, but looking around the league there's almost no chance we get one of those unless we strike gold in the draft.

[DAF86]

DAF86 has chosen a squad.[/COLOR]

Not really. I was one of the biggest instigators of the Spurs being agressive for Markkannen.

I just have a clear picture of what type of players I prefer to surround Vic with.

[scott]

Not really. I was one of the biggest instigators of the Spurs being agressive for Markkannen.

I just have a clear picture of what type of players I prefer to surround Vic with.

Then you can simply state that, instead of making provably false, asinine statements like "Fox is an extremely bad defender"

[SpursGenius]

Dev, Atl 26 swap and Kings 31 pick. Seem like a start point .

lol. Do you work for sacto? No that will not happen. More like Keldon Collins tre. Throw in charlotte pick. And two second rounders.

[DAF86]

And yet every team has one. Because it's an offense oriented league and there's only so much you can do without triple threat creators.
Right now we have none of those.
Would I prefer we draft 6'7 Manu? Obviously, but odds of that are very low.

And yet every team that has won it recently (Bucks, Nuggets, Celtics) or has a chance of winning it in the near future (Celtics, OKC) has none of it. That's exactly my point.

He's not a tier 3 player and the entire point of trading for him would be getting more than we gave up since he'll be on an expiring contract.

What tier do you think he is?

As I said, I'd also prefer the next great point forward, but looking around the league there's almost no chance we get one of those unless we strike gold in the draft.

For now, I would prefer to be patient and see if we strike gold in the draft, or see if Castle develops to that level. We will always have time to make win now trades. No reason to be impatient and doing a move we might regret for the next 5 years, tbh.

[slick'81]

Getting big man some help

[LeBowen]

Not really. I was one of the biggest instigators of the Spurs being agressive for Markkannen.

I just have a clear picture of what type of players I prefer to surround Vic with.

I'd also prefer Castle and Devin becoming Jrue and Middleton 2.0 within a year, but it doesn't look like it's going to go that quickly.

I'm a believer that you should always adapt to the situation and if there's a bargain to be had (Devin and 2 picks for Fox would be a bargain) you do it. Noone would trade 5 picks for Fox.
Devin is in his 5th season, has good size and is a turnstile on defense. Not only physically, but he looks like he's getting dumber with each passing year. Leaving his man to help Wemby in the paint and giving up open 3pts over and over again is just low IQ basketball. Kind of how we thought Keldon just needs to put it together but he peaked in his third season.
I'm not saying Devin won't improve, but we're still one of the worst teams in the league without Wemby and there's a reason for it. Our players just aren't very good. Replacing Devin with Fox wouldn't result in worse team defense.

Roster building is a very difficult thing in modern NBA. For every team that blows their load early, there's a team that waits too long and misses their window.
Wemby is already a top10 player, if not top5 and we should be maximizing his rookie contract by competing from the next season.

And yet every team that has won it recently (Bucks, Nuggets, Celtics) or has a chance of winning it in the near future (Celtics, OKC) has none of it. That's exactly my point.

Murray is a horrible defender, Jokic is subpar and yet they won because it's all about offense. Mavs just got out of the West with two turnstiles in starting lineup, beat TWolves that had a 37 year old 6'0 point guard.

What tier do you think he is?

I think he's a solid all-star tier, perfect second option.

[DAF86]

Then you can simply state that, instead of making provably false, asinine statements like "Fox is an extremely bad defender"

Fox is a below average defender and a below average 3pt shooter. I'd rather not give away assets to get such a player.

There, is that better?

[KobesAchilles]

Anyone not wanting Fox bc of bad defense is insane. Jrue Holiday, Ron Harper, and Chauncey Billups are the only great point guard defenders to win a le in the last 40 years. Seriously go season by season and see how many ty defensive point guards have won the le. It’s an insane list. Also having a 7ft 5 Frenchman who gets 10 blocks in a game can maybe just maybe help out Fox on that end.

Fox automatically brings in a solution to our problem of nobody can drive into the lane at a consistent basis. Him not being a solid 3 point shooter isn’t even a good point. Nobody brings any context anymore. Is Fox getting open looks at the 3 point line or is he creating for himself? Bc he shoots good when he is open but when he creates for himself his percentage drops by a lot. Fox and Wemby would be an unstoppable pick n roll game.

Shooting is easily draftable. We have good shooters. It is a lot easier to draft a Vassell than it is a Fox. You aren’t going to find that elite speed, finishing ability, and talent anywhere in the teens which is where we are drafting.

[DAF86]

I'd also prefer Castle and Devin becoming Jrue and Middleton 2.0 within a year, but it doesn't look like it's going to go that quickly.

I'm a believer that you should always adapt to the situation and if there's a bargain to be had (Devin and 2 picks for Fox would be a bargain) you do it. Noone would trade 5 picks for Fox.
Devin is in his 5th season, has good size and is a turnstile on defense. Not only physically, but he looks like he's getting dumber with each passing year. Leaving his man to help Wemby in the paint and giving up open 3pts over and over again is just low IQ basketball. Kind of how we thought Keldon just needs to put it together but he peaked in his third season.
I'm not saying Devin won't improve, but we're still one of the worst teams in the league without Wemby and there's a reason for it. Our players just aren't very good. Replacing Devin with Fox wouldn't result in worse team defense.

Roster building is a very difficult thing in modern NBA. For every team that blows their load early, there's a team that waits too long and misses their window.
Wemby is already a top10 player, if not top5 and we should be maximizing his rookie contract by competing from the next season.

I would rather wait all season and see how Devin does, before trading him for Fox. Devin might not be what this team needs to win a championship, I know Fox isn't.

[scott]

Fox is a below average defender and a below average 3pt shooter. I'd rather not give away assets to get such a player.

There, is that better?

He's the epitome of an average defender.

[SpursGenius]

Yeah I was more pointing to the seasons after this one. Castle needs to make a leap by next year. None of that year 3 crap. He has shown enough promise so far this season to expect that out of him besides being the 4th pick in the draft. If he is not a top 2 or top 3 player on next year’s roster, then he’s a bust and we should then be expecting a high pick out of our natural one for years to come.

but that isn’t the likely trajectory of the team right now. We’ve been floating at .500 so far and we’re likely to end the season around 40 wins. If that happens, next year’s win total won’t be less (a big part of it will be because of Castle). We’re not going to have a losing season again.

castle needs to be in starting lineup again. Put Barnes on the bench

[DAF86]

He's the epitome of an average defender.

Maybe for a PG, he isn't average overall. Much less in a playoffs environment, where teams relentlessly attack the weakest link time after time.

[LeBowen]

I would rather wait all season and see how Devin does, before trading him for Fox. Devin might not be what this team needs to win a championship, I know Fox isn't.

I don't think Fox is getting traded before the summer and I also said many times Devin needs to play the season as a starter so we know what we're dealing with, but I'm slowly starting to believe he's not a long term piece because much like undersized point guards, shooting guards who can't actually run and offense and/or aren't very good defenders are getting phased out of playoff teams unless they can easily score 30 on any given night. Devin doesn't do any of those things right now.

We can talk about Fox's flaws, but he's one of the best paint penetrators in the league and there would be no answer for him paired with Wemby, that's why he intrigues me.
And since you mentioned Boston, they made it work with two guards who were considered to be subpar shooters. My idea with Fox would be that he and Castle start together, with two high volume wing shooters next to them.

[scott]

Maybe for a PG, he isn't average overall. Much less in a playoffs environment, where teams relentlessly attack the weakest link time after time.

The percentiles I posted were not positional. He's a 50th percentile in D-EPM amongst every player in the league. The living, breathing manifestation of "median"

His lone playoff experience, matched up against one of the greatest PGs of all time, he played 38 minutes per game and took the Warriors to 7 games. (He also had a league playoff leading 2.1 steals/gm in that series and posted a 112 DRtg, and a +1.0 DBPM)