omg bruce bowen just owned dwayne wade

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Impy's getting owned.

[5ToolMan]

kori - you know that isnt true - I have given Bowen his respect and recognized that he has played great defense on several players in the league - the issue at hand is some of you apologists think he can do no wrong and won't allow any critique - you think he can lock up any and everyone in the league and I say he cant. I was big enough to recognize my error -- why can't you ?

Bowen's success defending the best in the league tends to get better with experience. Once Bruce develops more knowledge on where Wade wants the ball, he will get progressively better in making Wade work harder for everything he gets. Bruce has seen much more of Kobe, T-Mac, Allen and Carter, and his experience in how to slow their games is thus more evident.

Wade, based on his size and physical skills, is obviously one of the tougher players and toughest matchups Bruce will have in the league. But as good as Wade is, he does not have anything on the four mentioned above, except that Bruce has seen much less of him on the floor.

[5ToolMan]

bunch of apologists with black and silver colored glasses- d wayde doesnt need a pick to go around anyone. the team defense is one of the main reasons bowen is successful as a defender -- the other is his desire to be a great defender- which he is - but if it wasnt for the rest of the spurs playing help man and funneling people into tim - bruce would not be the defender he is -- he knows he has help so he is allowed to cheat or play more up on his man than he normally would. you guys are pathetic in your bias view of basketball. i was arguing with this cat yesterday named lonny - i guess he used to post here - anyway - he was talking about how you cant say anything negative about parker, bowen, ginobili, horry or duncan on this board or you get banned and stoned - i told him no way - the mavs apologists that i am subjected to up here are far worse than the spurs fans - -but i guess he was right - and kori i dont want to hear back from you until you finish our other conversation about shooting percentages etc..

If Wade does not need screens to consistantly get away from Bruce, why was the entire Heat offense predicated on setting multiple screens on every set? I guess SVG does not know how easy Wade could beat Bruce. LOL!

As to your next point, what is it that you don't understand about NBA Hoops being a TEAM sport?

Players become great players only if they know how to play within and through their TEAM. This is not a game of horse, or one on one. It is NBA hoops, where the only le that counts in the NBA Championship. That takes great players who understand how to play as a TEAM ... period. When one tries to critize a player's greatness, saying he would not be great without his team, it is clear they don't have a clue as to what the game is all about.

Another hint for you in regards to critizing Spurs players on this board. It is not only allowed, it is incouraged ... when it is valid. But when it reaks of ignorance like your lame BS, it is quickly shot down.

[Kori Ellis]

he was talking about how you cant say anything negative about parker, bowen, ginobili, horry or duncan on this board or you get banned and stoned - i told him no way - the mavs apologists that i am subjected to up here are far worse than the spurs fans - -but i guess he was right - and kori i dont want to hear back from you until you finish our other conversation about shooting percentages etc..

This is the funniest part of the whole thread. You just sit and make up crap. No one has ever been banned for saying anything bad about Spurs players. I think your "friend" has our board confused with someone else's. And I'm sorry you don't want to "hear back" from me, I just was calling you right now. If you don't want to read any of my posts about Bowen, then I suggest you scroll. I already killed you on the field goal conversation.

As for last night if you watched the game, as several people pointed out here, Wade wasn't even primarily Bruce's assignment. He was guarded by Manu, Tony, Bruce, and just about every other Spur. As a team, they guarded him fairly well.

I have already said in this thread that one-on-one Wade is a difficult matchup for Bowen. But I believe that's primarily because Bowen hasn't had that many opportunities to guard him yet. Last season Wade was out one of the games against the Spurs and I believe the season before, that was the case as well. The more that Bowen guards Wade, the better he'll get at it. That's his M.O.

You aren't even a Spurs fan, so it's time you change "your team" under name. There's no reason to undercover troll here. Be proud.

[Beerjitsu]

I'm a rookie to these boards, so I'm obviously missing something here. Did Bruce run over Implacable's dog or something?

[5ToolMan]

actually I don't because you guys are a bunch of homer clowns. I said Bruce was a great defender and he is because of the Spurs team defense. If we went to a gym and Dwayne Wade walked in and Bruce Bowen was there - wade would kill him off the dribble - the pick and roll is part of the offense the HEAT ALWAYS RUN no matter who they play.

The only thing revealing about your statement that Wade would kill Bruce off the dribble one on one, is your ignorance of the game. Because I am a nice guy, and I have taken on the mission is to eradicate ignorance from this board, I will try in my way to help you.

The first thing you should know; NBA hoops is a TEAM game, so your entire point is moot. But since you insist on exposing your mindless chatter, let us move on to solving your ignorance.

Just to clue you in so you don't appear quite as ignorant the next time you decide to play the @ss, the skilled offensive player will always have the advantage when matched against the skilled defensive players ONE ON ONE.

You can take any top defensive player of any era, even those who would be classified as great one on one defenders, and matched against the top offensive players of all time ONE ON ONE, the defender would get beaten more often than they make stops.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

you dont have to dumb it down for me -- you are dumbing it down for yourself because that is the only way it suits your purpose. he got waived by miami

Jordan got waived by his high school team

He obviously never got better either

[Solid D]

I can't believe this thread has gone 4 pages. I just checked the game log and Wade scored 24 points while Bowen was on the floor. 14 on FGs and 10 on FTs. Only 3 of the FTs came on fouls by Bowen.

The Spurs sagged with 3 across the front on Wade to inhibit his penetrations. They also doubled Wade and switched off screens. That's why this thread is so ridiculous.

[Shaolin-Style]

Who let the espn trolls in?

[Obstructed_View]

In football, the guy who gets double teamed and chipped the entire game doesn't get the sack, but he's no less responsible for the fact that his teammates get to the quarterback, or for the team getting a win. Wade getting lots of points after his team was down by 20 points is really really impressive, and we should all agree that Bruce Bowen sucks.

[implacable44]

This is the funniest part of the whole thread. You just sit and make up crap. No one has ever been banned for saying anything bad about Spurs players. I think your "friend" has our board confused with someone else's. And I'm sorry you don't want to "hear back" from me, I just was calling you right now. If you don't want to read any of my posts about Bowen, then I suggest you scroll. I already killed you on the field goal conversation.

As for last night if you watched the game, as several people pointed out here, Wade wasn't even primarily Bruce's assignment. He was guarded by Manu, Tony, Bruce, and just about every other Spur. As a team, they guarded him fairly well.

I have already said in this thread that one-on-one Wade is a difficult matchup for Bowen. But I believe that's primarily because Bowen hasn't had that many opportunities to guard him yet. Last season Wade was out one of the games against the Spurs and I believe the season before, that was the case as well. The more that Bowen guards Wade, the better he'll get at it. That's his M.O.

You aren't even a Spurs fan, so it's time you change "your team" under name. There's no reason to undercover troll here. Be proud.

why wouldnt bruce be assigned to wade ssince he is the best player ? looked to me like he was checking him -- but whatever -
and how did you own me - tried to say 40% is better than 30% and I told you not really because some dude that shoots 3 for 10 from the 3 point line and another dude shots 4 for 10 for 2 who is the more efficient one ? and you took percentages from one game and tried to compare it to a whole season - you are pathetic with the rest of the apologists - dont you have an obituary or some minute article to write?

now as for the obsession with the picks - the spurs run the pick and roll - does parker need them to get open ? no -- it creates mismatches and opportunities. for you low bball iq folks and in the words of the extreme chump i cant dumb it down for you anymore unless we go into x's and o;s .-

chump -- nice tarzan speak - it becomes you - if you cant admit you only addressed the part of the post to suit your arguement then you have integrity issues and that creates issues because you are dishonest even with yourself.

[FromWayDowntown]

now as for the obsession with the picks - the spurs run the pick and roll - does parker need them to get open ? no -- it creates mismatches and opportunities. for you low bball iq folks and in the words of the extreme chump i cant dumb it down for you anymore unless we go into x's and o;s .-

Sure, Red Auerbach -- but there's also a difference between running a guy off of screens to spring him and playing pick-and-roll. You're right that pick and roll is designed to create mismatches. But the Heat weren't playing pick and roll last night. They were setting screens all over the place not to create mismatches, but to spring Wade by freeing him from Bowen. Had the Heat played screen-roll last night, you might have a point, but they weren't.

If you want to go x's and o's from an actual game, don't bring fiction to try to bolster an invalid point.

[LilMissSPURfect]

can i buy a vowel?

[Solid D]

the spurs run the pick and roll - does parker need them to get open ? no --

Wrong answer. Of course Parker needs screens to get open. The Spurs even run the 4 down the middle after COP to give Tony space. It's part of basketball. Quit posing. It doesn't fit you. Back to the shallow pool.

[ambchang]

kori - you know that isnt true - I have given Bowen his respect and recognized that he has played great defense on several players in the league - the issue at hand is some of you apologists think he can do no wrong and won't allow any critique - you think he can lock up any and everyone in the league and I say he cant. I was big enough to recognize my error -- why can't you ?

You have it on reverse. You said he couldn't guard any elite wing this year, he proceeded to lock up Kobe, LeBron, Pierce, TMac and Dirk.
It is just sad that a person got owned for saying that Bruce Bowen cannot stop an elite wing this year, and come back every single time Bowen didn't completely stop another player when nobody ever said that Bowen can stop every single elite player every single game just to prove that his/her original assessment was correct.
The sad part does not come in the lack of ability to admit him/herself being wrong in the first place, it comes in the part where a person does not have any ability to understand and remember what s/he was originally arguing about.
But if putting down a Spurs player for his lack of ability to stop an opposing player makes you happy because it shows that Bowen cannot shut down every single person in the league, then go ahead, it still doesn't change the fact that he is one of the leading candidates for DPoY, and the Spurs are having a very good record despite not playing to their potential yet.

[ambchang]

bunch of apologists with black and silver colored glasses- d wayde doesnt need a pick to go around anyone.

Wade is not just a Reggie Miller-type that runs off screens. Wade's got more ball-handling skills. And when Bowen's playing a guy like Paul Pierce, he can use his smarts, positioning and savvy. But the Heat set a lot of screens for Wade, which limits Bowen's individual effectiveness as a defender.

the team defense is one of the main reasons bowen is successful as a defender -- the other is his desire to be a great defender- which he is - but if it wasnt for the rest of the spurs playing help man and funneling people into tim - bruce would not be the defender he is -- he knows he has help so he is allowed to cheat or play more up on his man than he normally would. you guys are pathetic in your bias view of basketball. i was arguing with this cat yesterday named lonny - i guess he used to post here - anyway - he was talking about how you cant say anything negative about parker, bowen, ginobili, horry or duncan on this board or you get banned and stoned - i told him no way - the mavs apologists that i am subjected to up here are far worse than the spurs fans - -but i guess he was right - and kori i dont want to hear back from you until you finish our other conversation about shooting percentages etc..

I suppose everybody is wrong but you. People say negative things about Duncan ALL the time, same with Parker, Ginobili, Rasho and well, every single member of the Spurs. Even a Spurs legend like David Robinson and George Gervin gets their share of criticism. To throw out a blanket statement that negative statements about Spurs players are not allowed on this board is not just incorrect, it exposes you as either a person who doesn't spend anytime reading other people's posts, or a person with absolutely no ability to absorb information that you do not agree with.
And what is that don't want to hear back from Kori thing about? She can reply to whichever post whenever she wants. What are you now? Trying to limit how people reply on this board?

[ambchang]

Going forward I will disregard all your comments about basketball knowledge - You obviously have never played or studied basketball the pick and roll serves one purpose - and that purpose is not to pass the ball to the guy who set the pick - that purpose is to force the defense to make a decision that will lead to an offensive advantage - several options - both guys go with the pick leaving the ball handler free to penetrate or shoot a jumper - or both defender go under the pick leaving an open j - both guys attack the ball handler leaving the pass open to the guy setting the pick for a dunk or a jumper.

Oh my goodness, this is the most idiotic thing I have heard about. Do you know why it's called the pick and roll? It's because the person who sets the pick rolls to the basket, opening up MORE options than you just described. True, both of what you said could take place after the pick, but the one who sets the pick can also roll to the basket if both defenders follow the ball handler, a pass would made to the one setting the pick rolling to the basket, resulting in an easy layup. The one who sets the pick can also pop out, and get a wide open jumper.
But then of course, if you were coaching you would ask both defenders to "go with the pick", who, might I remind you, is NOT the one with the ball. I mean, let me get my head around this. Say Player B sets a pick for Player A, player A has the ball, now I am on defense, and when I see Player B setting the pick, I just think to myself. "Gee, Player B doesn't have the ball, let's go guard him"
And to have you critique other people's basketball knowledge on this? This is just absolutely ridiculously funny.
BTW, some suggestions on your comebacks. Pick on my grammar and spelling, go ahead, English isn't even my first language.
Before then, read up
http://www.guidetocoachingbasketball...tm#PLAY%20%233

[ambchang]

you played highschool and pick up ball in college so you know offensive players hate having someone in their grill ? I played too and I love it when someone gets in my grill when i have the ball in my hand - that is the challenge and it much much easier to get around someone who gets all in your grill.

He played HS ball, so he MUST know that teams run the screen and roll so that they do not get the ball to the one setting the pick.

[ambchang]

I'm a rookie to these boards, so I'm obviously missing something here. Did Bruce run over Implacable's dog or something?

Probably, and maybe Bruce didn't pass him the ball after he set a pick for Bruce last time they were playing the game at the Y. No wait, the whole point for him setting the pick was because he doesn't want to get the ball back
This was just too much.

[sprrs]

Implacable's not even arguing anymore, he's throwing out insults. . . I think it's pretty clear who's lost

[ambchang]

now as for the obsession with the picks - the spurs run the pick and roll - does parker need them to get open ? no -- it creates mismatches and opportunities. for you low bball iq folks and in the words of the extreme chump i cant dumb it down for you anymore unless we go into x's and o;s .-

Yeah, you are the only one with high bball IQ. I mean, who can argue with you about not passing the ball to the guy setting the pick? I guess the old Jazz pick and roll system was all wrong, what's with Malone setting a pick for Stockton, rolling to the basket, getting a sweet pass and an easy layup? The defenders should all crowd around Malone every single time, so Stockton can roll to the basket or shoot a jumper. Damn, Stockton should have been 2nd in the all-time scoring list, and Malone should just be #1 on the all time not getting the ball after setting the pick list.

[sprrs]

I'm a rookie to these boards, so I'm obviously missing something here. Did Bruce run over Implacable's dog or something?

The whole thing started because he thought Manu was a better defender than Bruce.

[Solid D]

It's a tar baby thread.

Just for conversation's sake, the old, seasoned veteran announcer for ESPN, Brent Musberger noticed special Bowen attention before the 1st period was over in the Miami game. He said something like, the Heat are just relentless. They are sending high screens at Bruce Bowen every play. It's very seldom that you see a defensive player become the focal point like that.

The screens they sent at Bruce weren't really even screen/rolls that often. They were basically blockers sent to free up the movers, specifically Wade. Just good solid back-screens or up-screens, and if those didn't work just screen and re-screen to be sure to nail Bruce.

Through all that Wade only made 7 FGs while Bruce was on the floor.

[callo1]

see i was man enough to come in here and give bruce bowen props- - he got used last night - he shot 8 for 20 because other spurs stepped up and he just missed shots. Bowen could not stay in front of him for anything - I doubt anybody can - why can't you apologists be man enough to admit he cannot guard Dwade?

not to mention that vicious dunk after he split 2 spurs and threw down on Timmy

When the guy gets 3 picks set for him per possesion, its hard for anyone to stay with him.

[ChumpDumper]

chump -- nice tarzan speak - it becomes you - if you cant admit you only addressed the part of the post to suit your arguement then you have integrity issues and that creates issues because you are dishonest even with yourself.

What part of "Bruce got better" does your y of a brain not get?

I adressed every part of your "argument" and you whined about it like the troll you are.

Do I really need to go back to Fullerton to prove that Bruce is better now than he was 15 years ago? Is that what you are asking?

Ask it then.

Do you honestly think that Bruce Bown is a better basketball player now than he was at Edison High School?

Yes, . I do.