Well one problem I have is that I have one Grandchild who graduated from
UT-Austin and one going to A&M-Galveston and one who graduated from
Texas-Tech-Lubbock and I like football....so, sometimes things get a little
hairy.
Well, one of the benefits of a college education was the ability and wherewithal to dig for the information needed to complete a task. I will agree with Manny's earlier post and say that this has been diminished somewhat as the years have passed.
That said, an older graduate probably has a lot more invested in their degree, and takes it more seriously.
I have a good friend who graduated from the Naval Academy and went to
A&M for his engineering degree, he would definitely agree with you on A&M's
standards in Engineering. His field was Civil Engineering. Of course he
ended his Engineering career in Louisiana working for the Highway Department, which he got thoroughly hated. He did a lot of work on the
interstate which runs from North/South.
American Government
ME, TOO!!!! I would have been in heaven with the internet when I was in college.Damn....I wish I would have had the internet when I was in college to find all my answers for me. It's not fair, dammit....I actually had to work at it.
I loved both; I like Government classes better AFTER you get past the "philosophy" parts. I hate that crap. Just give me the guts...I don't really want to know "why?" in this case.I liked World Civilization better than American Government....good luck!
I think the biggest problem is the curriculum. Generally, you have to declare your major in your second year, however, you don't really start taking your "major" classes--those upper level classes that directly relate to your major, until Junior and Senior year. And people realize to late that what they thought the major/subject was about is actually quite different than what it actually is. And therefore, they find out they don't really like it, but continue to major in it because they've spend the last 3 years gearing towards it.
BTW,to my fellow accountant SpursWoman! We rock!
Not a partner -- not yet, anyway. Staying where I am, I'm still a couple of years away from that, but that's cool.
The work I get in my current job varies from day-to-day and case-to-case. Like a diverse college curriculum, is "fascinating" to me, which I'm sure will get a rise out of some straight line thinkers and challenging.
My point in the earlier post comes from the truth that if all I knew was law, I wouldn't be a very good lawyer. Every day I work, I call on the education I have in history and government and philosophy and psychology and sociology and literature and countless other subjects. Had I just gone to class to regurgitate facts from a textbook and not spent time thinking about those other subjects and actually learning something about each of them, I wouldn't be any good at my job.
I'd be happy to, Manny.
Sure. I'm not in your field. But I have friends in a variety of fields and I'm pretty certain that they'd all prefer someone who excelled with a well-rounded educational background over someone who didn't care about certain classes because they weren't within a particular major.
Man, political theory is the best part of government. I LOVE Machiavelli and Thucydides. Of course, par tof why I love Thucydides is because I'm a Thucydidean historian. I like political history over social history nearly any day of the week. It's where the action is.
Anyhow, I'm a nerd, because I loved college and being required to take outside classes (except math classes. Blech.). I wanted the educational experience. It's generally done well for me. I still think about writing the thesis I started on a Machiavellian reading of the Reformation (ie, if the Church had admitted it was not an eccesliastical prinicpality and followed Machiavelli's advice in The Prince, they could have maintained their political hold on Germany and England, but instead, by acting in the way they did they were destined to lose out to Protestantism).
Happy sigh.
Of course . . . I haven't been able to do much with my BA in History. I need a much higher degree to make it job applicable, and well, yeah. It's a serviceable enough basic degree, and I'm happy I went into history instead of sticking with theatre, but I also wish (now in the midst of a job search with three years of professional work and increasing responsibility) that I'd gotten a different degree that would aid in actually getting a decent job.
is thucydides the guy who wrote the 'account' of the peleponesian war in which he basically argued for moral relativism?
Argued for moral relativism? I so completely disagree with that - look at the way he handles the question of justice! The way he utilizes the speeches/dialogue in the book make it entirely clear that he disagrees with the way Athens handles the latter parts of the war. Look at how justice is handled from the early Corcyrean debate to the Mytelinean Debate to the Melian dialogue! Thucydides takes a clear stance that justice is NOT merely the advantage of the stronger, as the Athenians claim to the Melians.
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Last edited by Cant_Be_Faded; 12-12-2005 at 12:39 PM. Reason: n/m i get what you're saying, i read your post wrong
Who said I been slaughterin' and rapin'?
Sorry, Cant_Be_Faded, I get excited about that topic. I wrote a very long term paper on it for one of my senior history classes on historiography. It was probably the best paper I ever wrote (the prof said that I should lengthen it and submit it for publication or as a shining example of my work for grad schools, but I changed my mind about fast-tracking a PhD).
so you're saying he used the athenian brutality to argue against brutality
right
Which is why I am now the philosophizing accountant.
So the kid had work to be done and he went about it in an expeditious manner by positing some queries to this hotbed of internet know-it-alls. Perhaps he won't be a prof one day or a master googler, but he has a good chance to be one who will get done, which the last time I checked is what helps one to procure and maintain gainful employment.
Nooooo, that's not what I am saying. Take a closer look at the Melian Dialogue. First, we know it's an important speech in the narrative because it's not a public one, and it's in a dialogue format, not a dialectical argument. Because this was an account a) in private and b) after his own exile, this is one 'speech' Thucydides himself crafted.
In that dialogue, the Athenians scoff at justice as an universal truth, scoff at the Gods and in other ways indicate that they are immoral (their disregard for what is right, what is traditional, their insistence on violence, their greed). The Melians plead for their homes arguing what had previously been argued and accepted as valid argument (justice as an universal truth, rather than abstract concept) by Cleon, no less (who, remember, Thucydides hates - but nevertheless has speaking for the truth because it's an important point). The Athens crush the Melians anyway, and look at the prose there.
The dialogues are always Thucydides way of representing the major questions and his own impressions of the answers to them. At most, you could argue that he doesn't present a clear cut answer to the questions, but I think it would be difficult to argue that he was the first relativist philosopher.
Ok, that made my brain hurt.
Since you're so into history, why don't you consider teaching?
I'm not certified to teach. And the certification process makes my brain hurt. I basically have to s out a bunch of $ I don't have to take classes that most people agree are a total joke for the honor of baby-sitting a bunch of teenagers.
It's hard to teach today. My parents are/were both teachers (my dad teaches . . . yep, history and government) and neither of them think I'd do very well at it. I tend to agree now. I don't have much patience for stupidity and bureaucracy, and that's about where things land in public schools these days. There is no more focus on fundamentals and no real accountability for actually learning anything. Children in the late 1800's who only went to 8th grade were better educated than most of our high school graduates today.
And I would be much more interested in teaching in higher education, but the students aren't really that much better since thei fundamentals are so off. And acadmia sucks. It's so cutthroat. And I don't think I'm smart enough for it. And especially history - there isn't much new to say about it, so everyone has to try a new slant on it (feminist, colonialist) and that not of much use, in my opinion. And it doesn't pay well unless you take on an insane number of classes or make tenure.
Thucydides takes a clear stance that justice is NOT merely the advantage of the stronger, as the Athenians claim to the Meliansque?At most, you could argue that he doesn't present a clear cut answer to the questions, but I think it would be difficult to argue that he was the first relativist philosopher.
I'm arguing that he did take a stand. I don't think you can argue the opposite, that he embraced relativity. I am saying that at most, I think you can argue he never states his own opinions on the larger philosophical questions he clearly presents.
Go back and read the posts in the proper context. The fascination was aimed at upper level course students, not Horry. In fact, as I stated to begin with, none of the posts were directed at Horry but at at the general student population and its collective mindset.
I choose to enter the workforce after high school. I've held down several jobs due to my fascination that all requried degrees to hold. That shows you how valuable those 4 year degress are now. I held jobs with fortune 500 companies that required a 4 year degree in marketing simply because I displayed an ability to do things college graduates couldn't do and a better understanding of what was to be their core material.What's your degree in, Manny? I had a cousin that was "facinated" with all sorts of classes in college. He never graduated, because it takes more than facination to get a degree. It takes determination to take and complete courses that you are not interested in because they are obstacles that must be surpassed in order for you to get to your goal.
Anyhow, In a couple of years I'll be done with my Bachelors in PoliSci. Then after several more years, I'll be done with Law School. Regardless, when I reenter the professional work force, I will be far better off than a typical holder of a 4 year degree due to the experience I already hold under my belt.
But lots of determination? Right. I'm sorry, but the realitve ease of most University degree plans is ridiculous now. UTSA's business students are regarded incredibly lowly by the companies around town for this reason. And its a damn shame for the students in other departments who are still undertaking a large workload to have their degrees valued by association.
By the way, you made my point quite nicely that Universities have turned into glorified trade schools. You shouldn't try to contradict someone and then enforce what they are saying.
I never said he embraced relativity, i was asking if he did. I've read most of the melian dialogue and knew that it was different from the rest of his histories, but i haven't read thucydides so didn't know what context it was in within his overall work.
So do you think he thought the Athenians wrong or right
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