Argentina will be ready for World Cup, says Pekerman

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Just for the record, every Mexican I've met was courtious, generous and educated. Had you said yes to this

well i've met my share of Mexicans as well, do you see me making stupid generalizations like the one you made? Should I? really, I want to know, should I assume all Mexicans are like the ones I've met?

I would have been in trouble hahahaha! Anyway, I was trying to make a point

[Spurs#20]

hegamboa
Corpus Christi Spurs Fan
I don't know were you (and a lot of Mexican people) think that Argies think they're better than Mexicans. Maybe we think we are better because we actually have two world cups while you guys don't have any. Our soccer teams have so many international les, while Mexico doesn't have any.
It's not that we don't like our players playing in Mexico, but we just have better ones playing in Europe and Argentina. Most of those players that you are talking about already had chances to play in the national team and they didn't perform at the level they should have. It is not about thinking that the mexican league doesn't have any talent or that they are not compe ive, but we have players in other leagues that are much better.
When Mexico actually wins something instead of saying how good they are, then we could have a conversation about this

[Spurs#20]

Maybe when I can raise enough money to visit Argentina.... you can show me around and show me just how wrong my perceptions of Argentineans have been....

I have no idea why we have to prove you wrong we you haven't even been in Argentina to know how we actually are.

Why the majority of Mexicans think like this about us? We are so far apart.

We don't even know how Mexicans are!

[Phenomanul]

hegamboa
Corpus Christi Spurs Fan
I don't know were you (and a lot of Mexican people) think that Argies think they're better than Mexicans. Maybe we think we are better because we actually have two world cups while you guys don't have any. Our soccer teams have so many international les, while Mexico doesn't have any.
It's not that we don't like our players playing in Mexico, but we just have better ones playing in Europe and Argentina. Most of those players that you are talking about already had chances to play in the national team and they didn't perform at the level they should have. It is not about thinking that the mexican league doesn't have any talent or that they are not compe ive, but we have players in other leagues that are much better.
When Mexico actually wins something instead of saying how good they are, then we could have a conversation about this

Kick a guy while he is down... OK you are not helping..

I never stated that Mexico was actually better in Soccer than Argentina... If anything that would be an argument I would never enter (Argentina has all the acolades)... Ever since CONMEBOL has allowed Mexico to participate in CONMEBOL sponsored club and National team tournaments however... The Mexican squads have fared well... Brazil, Argentina, Mexico.... has been the proper order of power for the longest time.... I'm not ignorant you know.

Uruguay also won the World Cup back in the 50's... and currently I don't think they are better than Mexico... you must realize that this is only my opinion.... I'm looking at recent history here.... throwing around what happenned in 1978 and 1986 to reflect what is going on today is not very original.


Anyways, the conversation evolved into how my perception of Argentineans was based on my encounters and interactions with them while in school.... and on similar experiences from the many people I know, including my dad who has actually been in Argentina.... Manu'sMagicalLeftHand suggested that my dad had simply not visited the right locations and that being called negro was not necesarily a derrogatory comment... Considering my dad actually looks 'white' you would then assume he was being called indio and negro because they knew he was Mexican.... It really didn't bother him, he conducted his business, enjoyed the food and came home... I didn't even know that this had occurred on his trip in 1997 until I told him what the Argentineans were doing at my school in 2001; read below. Was this tormenting him? Loosing sleep over it??? No... Like I said, I didn't know that he had been insulted on cause of his nationality till 4 years down the road... Some of you all had the audacity to suggest I was blowing everything out of proportion, that my dad was being paranoid etc... I simply stated that my perceptions were based on my life's experience to date... The overwhelming 'data' was too much to ignore.

For example: we had a society of Latin American Engineers at college with people from Venezuela, Chile, Ecuador, Colombia, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Paraguay, Uruguay, Guatemala, Peru, etc... There were several Argentineans at my school.... where were they??? OH yeah... they wanted nothing to do with us cause it was beneath them to meddle with "los indios".... verbatim, from their mouths. Instead they chose to hang out with the people from Spain and Italy.... the Italians were cool but the Spaniards were also quite vocal about not wanting to be associated with us...

When you meet that many Argentineans and more than 80% of them have acted like pompous punks you are not left with a very good impression.... Like I mentioned earlier though... perhaps the sample size was more related to their particular socio-economic status and not relevant to the Argentinean people as a whole.... That was where I made my error in judgement... But if you could not see my apology... go ahead and keep on kicking... join the 80% group.

Oh... BTW

http://www.terra.com/espdep/articulo/html/fox191431.htm

Porque tendría que aclarar que el jugar en México no es desventaja??? Quién y qué fue lo que le preguntaron???

http://www.univision.com/content/con...tml?cid=275678

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Oh... BTW

http://www.terra.com/espdep/articulo/html/fox191431.htm

Porque tendría que aclarar que el jugar en México no es desventaja??? Quién y qué fue lo que le preguntaron???

http://www.univision.com/content/co...html?cid=275678

Jesus! not this again! FACE IT Hegamboa! When it comes to soccer, Mexico's League does not have the same weight or prestiege as the European leagues. You just don't! Playing in Mexico is simply not the same as playing in Europe. Delgado is in Mexico because so far he hasn't been good enough to play in Europe! GET IT!!???

Its the same case as if we were talking about basketball with regards to the Euro leagues and the NBA. Euro leagues aren't bad, but they don't hold a candle to the NBA. Now if you can understand that, which I'm preety sure you can, why is it so hard for you to understand the fact that Mexico's league is simply not as good as the elite teams in Europe. Perhaps its the fact that you are Mexican and you simply don't feel like facing the fact?

Argentina doesn't choose their players simply because they are playing in Europe, like it had nothing to do with how good they are. Those players are playing in Europe BECAUSE of how good they are, which is better than the rest of the players playing elsewhere. Now this isn't always the rule, but it most certainly is not the exception, and it is the case in this situation.

[Phenomanul]

Jesus! not this again! FACE IT Hegamboa! When it comes to soccer, Mexico's League does not have the same weight or prestiege as the European leagues. You just don't! Playing in Mexico is simply not the same as playing in Europe. Delgado is in Mexico because so far he hasn't been good enough to play in Europe! GET IT!!???

Its the same case as if we were talking about basketball with regards to the Euro leagues and the NBA. Euro leagues aren't bad, but they don't hold a candle to the NBA. Now if you can understand that, which I'm preety sure you can, why is it so hard for you to understand the fact that Mexico's league is simply not as good as the elite teams in Europe. Perhaps its the fact that you are Mexican and you simply don't feel like facing the fact?

Dude... chill out. I was just trying to find the articles I read earlier this year.... Manu'sMagicalLeftHand implied I was making it up....

I hate, underline hate, being called a liar... directly or in this case indirectly.

You all have gone head over heels bringing up your history to put Mexican soccer in its place.... I was never arguing history... I'm arguing what's going on right now. QUIT BEING so belligerent.... geeesh.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Dude... chill out. I was just trying to find the articles I read earlier this year.... Manu'sMagicalLeftHand implied I was making it up....

I hate, underline hate, being called a liar... directly or in this case indirectly.

You all have gone head over heels bringing up your history to put Mexican soccer in its place.... I was never arguing history... I'm arguing what's going on right now. QUIT BEING so belligerent.... geeesh.

Look, I understand that you hate being called a liar, and I don't believe you are, I do believe however that you're wrong. I also am a little tired of listening to you imply that players in Mexico are being discriminated against, which is the reason you posted those two articles and asked " Porque tendría que aclarar que el jugar en México no es desventaja??? Quién y qué fue lo que le preguntaron???". There is no discrimination, the players that weren't called are simply not good enough.

Now lets please change the subject because this is getting really old, really fast

[Phenomanul]

Look, I understand that you hate being called a liar, and I don't believe you are, I do believe however that you're wrong. I also am a little tired of listening to you imply that players in Mexico are being discriminated against, which is the reason you posted those two articles and asked " Porque tendría que aclarar que el jugar en México no es desventaja??? Quién y qué fue lo que le preguntaron???". There is no discrimination, the players that weren't called are simply not good enough.

Now lets please change the subject because this is getting really old, really fast

You seem to throw jabs in every post.... cut that crap out.

Someone asked Delgado in that press room.... and it definitely wasn't me. Therefore, 'other people' know this to be an issue... that the general Argentinean populace is unaware of it is another story.

Everyone of you all has stated something similar to your bolded statement.... that is your opinion... don't pass it off as fact....

Mexican teams can not beat European clubs.... I dispelled that opinion as a lie.

Mexican teams suck and are no match for the European leagues... yeah... real original. Several Mexican squads could beat many European clubs from several of their leagues... not all of them.

Top down though I STATED that the EUROPEAN Leagues were better.

You all keep implying that I live in some delusional world where this is not the case.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Everyone of you all has stated something similar to your bolded statement.... that is your opinion... don't pass it off as fact....

It is a fact, your ass simply can bring yourself to facing it.

Mexican teams can not beat European clubs.... I dispelled that opinion as a lie.

I never, EVER said Mexican teams can not beat European clubs. Your selective reading is hilarious. Any team can beat any team, any given day, but in general, European teams are better than Mexican teams.

Mexican teams suck and are no match for the European leagues... yeah... real original. Several Mexican squads could beat many European clubs from several of their leagues... not all of them.

Again, I never said Mexican teams suck, but you seem to always be on the defensive. Mexican teams don't suck, they are just not as good as the elite European teams. Also I agree that several Mexican squads could beat many mediocre European teams, I never said they couldn't.

Seriously man, what is it you are trying to get us to admit? That the Mexican league is as good as the European??? ITS NOT!!!

[Phenomanul]

It is a fact, your ass simply can bring yourself to facing it.

I never, EVER said Mexican teams can not beat European clubs. Your selective reading is hilarious. Any team can beat any team, any given day, but in general, European teams are better than Mexican teams.


Again, I never said Mexican teams suck, but you seem to always be on the defensive. Mexican teams don't suck, they are just not as good as the elite European teams. Also I agree that several Mexican squads could beat many mediocre European teams, I never said they couldn't.

Seriously man, what is it you are trying to get us to admit? That the Mexican league is as good as the European??? ITS NOT!!!

Dude you are not the only one replying... so don't give me the "selective reading" argument.... other posters have said and implied what my previous post said....

I know where Mexican clubs rank in terms of world pecking order.... I'm not stupid... quit trying to make others believe that this has been my claim all along.

The discussion turned into a social one... and the other posters didn't realize it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Dude you are not the only one replying... so don't give me the "selective reading" argument.... other posters have said and implied what my previous post said....

I know where Mexican clubs rank in terms of world pecking order.... I'm not stupid... quit trying to make others believe that this has been my claim all along.

The discussion turned into a social one... and the other posters didn't realize it.

Bull , noone in this thread has said or implied that Mexican teams suck, read again. The only comment that resembles that, is Manu'sMagicalLeftHand's about Mexican teams not being able to beat elite european teams, which in and of itself does not imply that Mexican teams suck, but rather that elite Euro teams are better, which is a fact.

You claim we said or implied Mexican teams suck to support a BS argument that we Argies are biased against players in Mexico. Then YOU went ahead and when it became clear that your arguments about soccer didn't hold water, turned this whole thing into a social matter. Nothing you have said in this thread is valid, from your claims that the AFA chooses not to select players from Mexico because of some bull bias...

People's exhibit one

Why does the Argentianian national team discriminate against Argentinian players who play in Mexico???

The only one on the squad is el "Chelo" Delgado...

Bruno Marioni is pretty good
So is Walter Gaitan...

Do they only have "eyes" for players that play in Europe????

Fair enough... I'm simply trying to point out the fact Argentina choses not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit (which happens to pay better salaries than that offered by most Argentinean clubs).

Most Argentineans would be apalled by that notion... and that is why it rarely happens. Comparable talent aside, I believe that 'discrimination' to be one of the underlying reasons for said trend.

... to your claim that us Argies think we are better than the rest of Latin America

People's Exhibit two

Your media can 'tout' and 'promote' them as better all they want... I see the bigger picture.... You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

Many Argentineans consider themselves "white" and consider the Chileans, the Costa Ricans, Ecuatorianos, Colombians, Mexicans... as Indians.... Don't be naive that that is not the case.... It is not the rule, but it is definitely not the exception.

Nothing you've posted in here has a thread of legitimacy, nothing. Furthermore I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything. What you have been claiming is preety damn obvious, and it bears no resemblance with reality.

[Phenomanul]

Bull , noone in this thread has said or implied that Mexican teams suck, read again. The only comment that resembles that, is Manu'sMagicalLeftHand's about Mexican teams not being able to beat elite european teams, which in and of itself does not imply that Mexican teams suck, but rather that elite Euro teams are better, which is a fact.

You claim we said or implied Mexican teams suck to support a BS argument that we Argies are biased against players in Mexico. Then YOU went ahead and when it became clear that your arguments about soccer didn't hold water, turned this whole thing into a social matter. Nothing you have said in this thread is valid, from your claims that the AFA chooses not to select players from Mexico because of some bull bias...

People's exhibit one
... to your claim that us Argies think we are better than the rest of Latin America

People's Exhibit two
[/size][/size] [/size][/size]
Nothing you've posted in here has a thread of legitimacy, nothing. Furthermore I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything. What you have been claiming is preety damn obvious, and it bears no resemblance with reality.

Yeah.... OK.... pulling out quotes out of the context of the flow of the thread makes you:

Devil's Advocate No. 1

I have stated which of my comments were my opinion...
Something apparently you don't know how to do...

You have tried to pass your opinions off as fact, whether or not 90% of Argentineans believe the same way you do, does not make an opionion a fact... UNDERSTAND that... it is still an opinion. Comparison of talent is rather subjective. It's not like I was saying "Kwame Brown was better than Tim Duncan..." yet that is how all of your fellow countrymen took the comparison.

And since you insist on being belligerent... this will be my last post on this thread... I've already told you I hate it when it gets personal. And rather than trying to sway my perceptions about Argentineans you only seemed to add more fuel to the fire. It seems you only want to argue and come out as the victor... I hate to break it to you. But trying to invalidate anything I've said will not win you a prize. You will not earn money. You will not earn a spur from Kori. You definitely have not earned my respect.... I will tell you what you will get....

OH Yeah............ bragging rights....
But wait..... I thought you said Argentineans were not about that. hmmm....


I don't care if you reply 10 more times to this thread and continue to try and make me look ignorant with your "smarter than thou" approach.

Earlier in the discussion I recognized my error in judgement...

You couldn't have it at that.... ignorant posters like yourself relish the opportunity to gloat about something you don't even have to balls to do... You haven't willingly conceded on anything... except maybe pointing out that you were going to lie about your perceptions of Mexicans just to make a point.... And then you have the galls to try and claim nothing I've said is valid...

I didn't turn it into a social discussion to cop out of the 1st question I posted.... I sincerely wanted to know why the predilection to look over players in the Mexican league existed... The social implication was there all along in the first question you've so gallantly dug up....

But I didn't get sincere answers.... all I recieved were people telling me that "Bruno Marioni was crap" -OPINION,

that "Gaitán" only earned his nick-name cause his compe ion in Mexico was inferior... -OPINION,

how I would dare compare the level of elite Mexican clubs to European clubs... and that the notion was stupid... -OPINION.

that allowing for "the growth and development of players while in Mexico" was a cop out argument.... -OPINION

Any attempt on my part to address those comments was recieved with people reminding me that Argentina had won two World Cups and that Mexico had not yet won anything.... basically to shut-up. That argument will always be a cop out in my book: "I don't want to hear anything you say because only what I believe... is true... so just shut up"

When I reminded them that PUMAS had beaten both Real Madrid and FC Barcelona's 'A' Squads...

The reply was: "in Friendlies"

Then I stated that "Necaxa had placed third in the First World Club Championships"

The reply was: "Well then why is Saprissa getting their behinds handed to them against Liverpool in this year's edition"

When I reminded them that the short history of Mexico's participation in CONMEBOL sponsored tournaments has been a good one... Someone basically discredited PUMAS's achievement by saying the NISSAN cup was bogus....

Certain things don't have to be said explicitly when the context speaks for itself. Rather than answer the questions you all would continually bring new modifiers or clauses or whatever... The argument was simply:


"We don't pick players from Mexico simply because there are better players playing elsewhere" -OPINION

That I could understand... but again.... You all wanted me to accept this opinion as a fact...

I opened up pandora's box, so now I'm closing it.


Hurry... go on... go ask Kori or timvp for a spur.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You have tried to pass your opinions off as fact, whether or not 90% of Argentineans believe the same way you do, does not make an opionion a fact... UNDERSTAND that... it is still an opinion. Comparison of talent is rather subjective. It's not like I was saying "Kwame Brown was better than Tim Duncan..." yet that is how all of your fellow countrymen took the comparison.

That is convenient isn't it. Yes you're right that comparison of talent is very subjective, but that subjectivity comes into place when the difference is minimal, and in this case its not. Any self respecting soccer aficionado knows the monumental difference in talent between the Euro leagues and the Mexican league, you're are simply being a gigantic ing homer and don't want to face reality.

And since you insist on being belligerent... this will be my last post on this thread... I've already told you I hate it when it gets personal. And rather than trying to sway my perceptions about Argentineans you only seemed to add more fuel to the fire. It seems you only want to argue and come out as the victor... I hate to break it to you. But trying to invalidate anything I've said will not win you a prize. You will not earn money. You will not earn a spur from Kori. You definitely have not earned my respect.... I will tell you what you will get....

that is ing rich. Take a look at your comments about Argentinians throughout this thread and you will understand why I'm belligerent. I'm glad this is your last post, it will put an end to the ignorance.

OH Yeah............ bragging rights....
But wait..... I thought you said Argentineans were not about that. hmmm....

bragging rights? what the are you talking about? do you see me bragging anywhere? Besides I wouldn't bragg about a stupid discussion like this one.

You couldn't have it at that.... ignorant posters like yourself relish the opportunity to gloat about something you don't even have to balls to do... You haven't willingly conceded on anything... except maybe pointing out that you were going to lie about your perceptions of Mexicans just to make a point.... And then you have the galls to try and claim nothing I've said is valid...

Concede to what? We don't agree about the difference in talent between the Euro league and the Mexican league, therefor I won't concede on that. Then you imply we Argies think we're better than everyone else, and I know that is bull , so I'm not conceeding anything on that either. What exactly do you want to concede??

Second I did not admit I was going to lie you stupid , the question I asked was "should I assume all Mexicans are like the ones I've met" which nowhere does it imply a bad thing. I was never going to say nor imply that Mexicans were in any way different from the ones I've met, and I told you the ones I've met were courtious and educated. It surprises me that someone with a supposed double PHD wouldn't know the difference. STOP MAKING UP!

I didn't turn it into a social discussion to cop out of the 1st question I posted.... I sincerely wanted to know why the predilection to look over players in the Mexican league existed... The social implication was there all along in the first question you've so gallantly dug up....

Its not overlooking, THEY ARE SIMPLY NOT AS GOOD AS THE OTHER PLAYERS! what, am I speaking Swahili?? Jesus, you have one big ing chip on your shoulder, you know that?

But I didn't get sincere answers.... all I recieved were people telling me that "Bruno Marioni was crap" -OPINION,

You're right, he may not be crap, he is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH! that maybe opinion, but its the opinion of the people running AFA, and they are the ones selecting the players.

that "Gaitán" only earned his nick-name cause his compe ion in Mexico was inferior... -OPINION,

Look Gaitan may be the over there, but over here he was mediocre, and again, HE IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

how I would dare compare the level of elite Mexican clubs to European clubs... and that the notion was stupid... -OPINION.

Its not stupid, its a homer notion, you want to hide behind the "opinion" blanket fine, it still doesn't make it true.

Any attempt on my part to address those comments was recieved with people reminding me that Argentina had won two World Cups and that Mexico had not yet won anything.... basically to shut-up. That argument will always be a cop out in my book: "I don't want to hear anything you say because only what I believe... is true... so just shut up"

Look, I may "believe" that the Euro baketball leagues are on par with the NBA, and that may be my "opinion" BUT ITS NOT FACT!! Any self respecting basketball fan knows this, just like any self respecting soccer fan would never compare the Mexican league with the Euro leagues. If you can't deal with that "opinion" then no point discussing this any further.

When I reminded them that PUMAS had beaten both Real Madrid and FC Barcelona's 'A' Squads...

The reply was: "in Friendlies"

You honestly believe a "friendly" game is the same as a tournament game? That is exactly like saying the Hawks are as good as the Spurs because they beat us in a pre-season game You're full of .

When I reminded them that the short history of Mexico's participation in CONMEBOL sponsored tournaments has been a good one... Someone basically discredited PUMAS's achievement by saying the NISSAN cup was bogus....

The NISSAN isn't bogus, you are right

Certain things don't have to be said explicitly when the context speaks for itself. Rather than answer the questions you all would continually bring new modifiers or clauses or whatever... The argument was simply:


"We don't pick players from Mexico simply because there are better players playing elsewhere" -OPINION

Again, hiding behind the cloak of "opinion" Yeah, its the POPULAR opinion. Its an opinion based on performance and achievements rather than desire, like yours is.

Anyway, I'm done here, you believe whatever you want.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Dude... chill out. I was just trying to find the articles I read earlier this year.... Manu'sMagicalLeftHand implied I was making it up....

I hate, underline hate, being called a liar... directly or in this case indirectly.

You all have gone head over heels bringing up your history to put Mexican soccer in its place.... I was never arguing history... I'm arguing what's going on right now. QUIT BEING so belligerent.... geeesh.

Man, you know that the site you linked to, and those articles and questions are from Mexican journalists, right? I guess it's inferiority complex, that's why they are asking him? In Argentina no one gives a crap about Delgado, the Mexican League, or what the Mexicans think about us. Our hatred rivals are Brazil, England and maybe Chile (if we are generous to them considering rivals), enough said.

Mexicans seem so beligerant towards Argentinian football, maybe they should keep the bull to themselves. I don't know what caused it, maybe too many foreigners on your league, don't have a clue. But that need to speak about how great the Mexican League is everywhere a Mexican shows up sounds like a tremendous inferiority complex. Like that Hugo Sanchez speaking about Lavolpe, and the Mexicans siding with him like we Argies care, well guess what? No one gives a about Lavolpe here. I've never heard an Argentinian or Brazilian say "my league is one of the best in the world" unless someone else was talking about their Leagues. And why you ask? Because simply you take a look at their achievements, they speak for themselves.

Hegamboa, I've read your posts. What you state most as "Opinions" are well known facts for anyone who knows a thing or two about football, and doesn't work for Televisa or Azteca TV or whatever it's the name.

And by the way, yeah. Passarella, Bielsa, Pekerman, three top coaches, didn't select players because they are playing in the Mexican league, and this is all a conspiracy. Happy now? Jeez.

[1369]

Since ya'll are on the subject, I was in Argentina in 2004 (In Cordoba hunting) and on the way to the national airport in BA, the driver and our escort were in a nine-line bind because that week the Argentina National team had their collective backsides handed to them by the hated Brazilian team (At least that's what I got out of the conversation) and were ready to hang everyone from the coach to the towel boy from the nearest overpass. Have Argentina and Brazil played since then?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Since ya'll are on the subject, I was in Argentina in 2004 (In Cordoba hunting) and on the way to the national airport in BA, the driver and our escort were in a nine-line bind because that week the Argentina National team had their collective backsides handed to them by the hated Brazilian team (At least that's what I got out of the conversation) and were ready to hang everyone from the coach to the towel boy from the nearest overpass. Have Argentina and Brazil played since then?

They've played two games since then. Argentina won the first 3-1, and Brazil won the other, 4-1.

[1369]

Well then, I guess they didn't hang anyone.

Are the odds fairly good that the two will meet in Germany at some point (Forgive my ignorance on the group seedings)?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Well then, I guess they didn't hang anyone.

Are the odds fairly good that the two will meet in Germany at some point (Forgive my ignorance on the group seedings)?

Semifinals is where the two could meet. It would be one of a game, that's for sure.

[danyel]

Some points I wanted to make:
- Argentinean players playing in the mexican league, with some few exceptions, aren't better than most argentinean players in european leagues (English, Spanish nor Italian). That comes from better salaries, better exposition (how many argentinean players went from european leagues to the mexican league and how many went in the other direction?), better compe ion (its not only how good your team really is, its also about how good the other teams/players are).

- A player having a good tournament in a top european league gets more praised than a player having an extraodinary tournament in Mexico. Sure, just as Manu got more praised being the 6th man in a le run in the NBA than Scola winning the MVP in Spain... European leagues do get more exposition, have more followers in Argentina than the Mexican league, they also get more exposition than the Brazilian league or the Dutch league.

- Argentina and Brazil over other countries in the region have a longer succesful history in soccer, thats also translates into more followers, more publicity, more money spent, etc, etc. That also translates in those countries having more influence in regional decisions such as disciplinaries committees. It isnt fair, I agree, thats life...

- A player having a very good tournament in Argentina has more chances of being called to the national team than if he was playing in Mexico. Sure, the coach gets more chances to watch him, to talk to him, to talk to his coach, to read the media comments, etc.

- Recently imposed World Club Cup doesnt exactly count as a stick to meassure power between european and american teams, neither does the Intercontinental Nissan cup. In the first the tournament level isnt any good, just a couple of good teams, european teams dont really care about it. They didnt care that much about the Nissan Cup either, Liverpool refused to play it a couple of years ago, they simply dont care as much as we in america do.

- Negro isnt always used as a derogatory term in Argentina, at least in Buenos Aires, its a common term often used instead of "che" or "jefe" etc to get someones attention. My sister sometimes calls me negro, some friends call me negro my aunt was nicknamed "la negra" when she was little and I have Polish descent. Also la negra Sosa (singer) or el negro Gonzales Oro (radio broadcaster) are famous people who go by the "negro" nickname.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

We'll see Sunday... of course if Pumas wins... You all will start throwing the history....

Anyways I'm not saying all Argentineans are aware of this or behave this way....

You were saying???? Seriously put your money where your mouth is!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

You are throwing salt on his wound, that's not a nice thing to do.

I keep what I've said: the South American Cup won't have any prestige until some kind of merit is required to qualify.

[velik_m]

there was an argentinian player in slovenian league a while ago and a couple of brazilians too, but none of them was called into national team do you latinos have something against slovenians? You are racist!

[hendrix]

I'm kind of late but anyways....

1. Cesar Delgado and Luciano Figueroa played for the NT while been in Mexico.
I dont know if there is a conspiracy by the "Big Teams" in Argentina or what... but I think Figueroa (now in Spain) deserves to go to the World Cup more than Saviola for example. But Saviola is a River Plate boy... so...
Delgado hasn't played well last games he played for the NT (except against Paraguay) so is hard to argue.

2. I understand Hegamboa. I acknowledge that's a pretty common point of view about argentinians. There's not much we can do about it. Some miserable people from this precious land made a bad reputation for all of us.
And thou I think racism is less and less frequest here (like in ANY other place in the world), I do think a lot of people have an at ude problem.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You are throwing salt on his wound, that's not a nice thing to do.

I keep what I've said: the South American Cup won't have any prestige until some kind of merit is required to qualify.

whoever said anything about being nice? I'm sorry, if he wants recognition for his country, he has to get the criticism for the bad as well as the good. They lost, I'm en led to gloat He's all "if Pumas win... you'll talk about history... bla, bla, bla" well, they didn't win, period. Now what?

*Note that I'm gloating as an Argentinian, because as River plate fan, I actually wanted Pumas to win