Ludden: Seasonal slumping by Duncan

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Teams have been fronting Tim, which everybody knows, if you can do it, is an effective tactic for neutralizing Tim, denying him the ball down low, so Tim fights around the defender, but ends up in jumpshooting land, where he either clangs his banker or puts the ball on the floor in heavy traffic, to be stripped, or fouled

Actually anyone who had watched us play this year would know that when teams front TD we usually make a quick pass to the top of the key, and that player has a better angle to get it into Tim (and usually does).

[Extra Stout]

I'm not trying to say that landscaping, plumbing, or working for an insurance company is the same as playing at the highest level of professional basketball. What I was saying (which you obviously didn't seem to understnad) was that working as a plumber's helper, or construction is a lot more tiring than playing basketball for about 30 minutes three to four days out of the week.

Yes, it's more tiring to do outside labor than to be a surgeon. However, I'm guessing you'd like your surgeon to be extremely well-rested, given that the level of skill necessary to do his job is so much higher, and his margin of error is so much smaller than it is for unskilled jobs.

Fatigue shows up a lot more quickly and impairs performance a lot more doing a job like Tim Duncan's, even if he is not actually as fatigued physically as the outside laborer, because the skill and precision involved in doing his job is so much greater.

[Kip Fanatic]

Man, life in the NBA is so hard. You have to run up and down a court for about 30 or so minutes if you're a starter. Not only that. You have to try and score. Wait. It gets worse. You have to defend and pull down rebounds. Not only that folks, you have to pass the ball the right way and dribble. You have to do this for about 3-4 nights a week. Then you have to travel in a private jet and stay in the best hotels in the world. Let me tell you it still gets worse. Read this:


CLEVELAND - The day before he left for Jazz training camp in Boise, Robert Whaley found an envelope with a check in it taped to his locker. Made out to him. For more than $1,200. With no explanation.
"It was great. I didn't know what it was, but everyone got them," Whaley said, shaking his head. "I thought it was just free money."
It was, sort of.
Amazing as it may sound in a league where even the minimum-wage scrubs earn more than $4,400 per game, NBA players are compensated in plenty of other ways, too. When they are traded, their new teams pick up moving expenses and six weeks of hotel bills. When they feel tense, the team's traveling masseuse kneads the kinks out of their muscles. When they need shoes, various companies inundate them with free goods.
And best of all, the players say - when they travel, the team hands out meal money.
"It's crazy how much they give us," said fellow Jazz rookie C.J. Miles. "They give us money to eat on the road, and then they give us food, too."
The collective-bargaining agreement between the NBA and its players association spells out the rules for per-diem: Each player is due $102 for every day the team is on the road. It's broken down even more specifically, based on what time the team departs from or arrives back home. If the team isn't in Salt Lake, each player is allotted $18.36 for breakfast, $28.56 for lunch and $55.08 for dinner.
And if that seems like a lot of money, be assured that the players think so too. Not that they're complaining.
"Honestly? I can't say I ever spend $100 a day," said Jazz guard Devin Brown, who bragged that his December per diem funded 30 new DVDs for his collection. "Most guys probably end up pocketing about half of it."
Or more. Guard Andre Owens, who proudly calls himself "the cheapest guy on the team," figures if he spends $20 a day, that's a lot. "Just because they give it doesn't mean I have to spend it," he said.
Sometimes it's difficult to spend it, actually. After tonight's game against the Cavs, for instance, the Jazz will head to their chartered jet and fly to Boston. While en route, the players will be served restaurant-quality meals, with trays of appetizers, salads, a selection of three or four entrees, and plates of cookies, pies or ice cream for dessert.
Wednesday morning, there will be a team breakfast in Boston, customary when the Jazz play back-to-back games. When the players arrive at the arena, light snacks and fruit will be on a table in the locker room. (In Dallas, the Mavs provide a full buffet for visiting teams.) That's a full day of meals, without ever spending a dime, much less $102.
Cha-ching.
"I still have some of my meal money left over from last month," Miles said almost sheepishly. "The other day, I went to the mall in [Indianapolis]. I think I used some to buy some hats."
That's not uncommon. In fact, many young players try to live off their monthly perdiem check, and never touch their salaries. "We got, like, $1,100 for December," Whaley said. "I mean, c'mon - there's no way in a month's time you should spend $1,100 on food. I went and bought a bunch of groceries with it. I can cook my own meals at home."
Even if players try to spend their food allowance, it's not always so easy. Miles has been shocked at how often he is recognized in Salt Lake restaurants, and how frequently his meal is comped because of who he is.
"A lot of times, they'll give you a big discount or they won't even make
you pay for it," the 18-year-old rookie said. "Especially if you're a regular, people are like, 'Don't worry about it.' ''
Per diem used to be paid in cash, handed out before every road trip by the team's trainer. Jazz coach Jerry Sloan recalls longtime trainer Don Sparks "walking around carrying $12-15,000 in his boots if it was a long trip."
These days, it's all handled by check, mostly because the IRS now requires that meal money above a certain level (and different amounts in every city) be taxed as income, a headache that the accounting department handles.
No one is happier about that than the Jazz's current trainer, Gary Briggs. He used to waste hundreds of hours in the 1980s and 90s, when he was the Cavaliers' trainer, drawing a check from the team, cashing it, locking himself in his office and divvying it up between players, coaches and the rest of the traveling party.
When notoriously cheap Ted Stepien owned the Cavs, Briggs said, there was even more trouble. "I actually had a per diem check that the bank wouldn't cash because there weren't sufficient funds," he recalled. "I went ballistic."
Veteran players tend to use far more of their per diem check, mostly because they usually have million-dollar salaries and don't need to scrimp.
"When I was a rookie, I didn't know much about nutrition, and I wanted to pocket the money. So I would find a Subway [sandwich shop] and have a sandwich, chips and a coke as a pregame meal," said Matt Harpring, who now earns $5 million a year, right around the NBA average. "I did Burger King a few times. But the worse you eat, the worse you play, so now I try to eat three good meals a day. And where we stay, that's expensive."
Like many NBA players, he likes to rest in the afternoon and order room service - which can make $102 disappear in a hurry. For instance, at the Cleveland Ritz Carlton, where the Jazz are staying, a New York steak costs $39. A salad is $16, and chicken is extra. Even a peanut-butter sandwich goes for $5.
Briggs recalls ordering oatmeal, toast and orange juice at the Essex House in New York, and being shocked when the bill came to $35.
"After shootaround, if I order chicken and pasta, that might be $40 before tip," Harpring added. "The young guys might keep their perdiem, but I use it."
So does Greg Ostertag, and not just on meals. The Jazz's oldest (and highest-earning, career-wise) player said he spreads his per diem out in gratuities, too, for valets, waiters, even clubhouse boys. "I might be the best tipper in the league," Ostertag joked. "It keeps them from spitting in your food."

Man. That job sounds very tiring. I'd much rather do labor five to six days out of the week in the cold or heat. Eat leftover's or some sandwich from home and get paid about $10-15/hour.

Signed,
Extra Stout

[pache100]

Man, life in the NBA is so hard.

Let me ask you this...if it's so freakin' EASY, why don't you walk on and rake in some of the big bucks?????

[Kip Fanatic]

Yes, it's more tiring to do outside labor than to be a surgeon. However, I'm guessing you'd like your surgeon to be extremely well-rested, given that the level of skill necessary to do his job is so much higher, and his margin of error is so much smaller than it is for unskilled jobs.

Fatigue shows up a lot more quickly and impairs performance a lot more doing a job like Tim Duncan's, even if he is not actually as fatigued physically as the outside laborer, because the skill and precision involved in doing his job is so much greater.

Yeah. It takes no skill out how to figure out how not to make a house or a commercial building's foundation sound. Its so easy. Man, no math skills involved. You can do it with you're eyes close. Don't worry, you won't cut your cut with the torch. Don't worry about when the foundation of a huge building starts to crack and the plumbing pipes start to burst. It can be fixed in no time. Even a baby can do it.

You're such an idiot Extra.

[smeagol]

Give it up Kip. You've been owned.

[pache100]

You're such an idiot Extra.

Here we go again. When all else fails...hurl the insults.

[Extra Stout]

Yeah. It takes no skill out how to figure out how not to make a house or a commercial building's foundation sound. Its so easy. Man, no math skills involved. You can do it with you're eyes close. Don't worry, you won't cut your cut with the torch. Don't worry about when the foundation of a huge building starts to crack and the plumbing pipes start to burst. It can be fixed in no time. Even a baby can do it.

You're such an idiot Extra.

Right... because that weary plumber's helper is going to design the foundation in between tying rebar, rather than the licensed civil engineer sitting in an cushy office somewhere.

Just shut the up.

[Extra Stout]

Man. That job sounds very tiring. I'd much rather do labor five to six days out of the week in the cold or heat. Eat leftover's or some sandwich from home and get paid about $10-15/hour.

Doctors get paid a lot of money, so fatigue shouldn't affect their performance at all. Therefore, I expect that you will let a resident who has awake for 48 hours do life-threatening surgery on you. It shouldn't make any difference because the doctor is rich and drives a Lexus.

[easjer]

I think that Kip is forgetting about the amount of practice time, warm up time, weight room time, rehab time, player appearance and mandated charity appearance time is required.

It's not just showing up three or four times a week and running around for thirty minutes while cashing their checks.

Yeah, NBA players bank. As do others who work in highly specialized fields outside of sports. , when my grandmother was a nurse, she didn't make what I do now. If I go to nursing school, I can get a hospital to pay for it, work part time and bank well over my current salary - because it's becoming a specialized field.

Your argument is not working, friend.

[Extra Stout]

Your argument is not working, friend.

Kip is sooooooooo San Antonio.

[Kip Fanatic]

Right... because that weary plumber's helper is going to design the foundation in between tying rebar, rather than the licensed civil engineer sitting in an cushy office somewhere.

Just shut the up.

Again, if you were to have read my posts carefully you would have learned that I was not only a plumber's helper for a while, but also worked for my dad's company, which tied rebar for homes and commercial buildings. This isn't about me though. You make it seem like being a NBA player take's a bachelor's degree. Not so. You pretty much said that laborer's don't need to have any skill what so ever. That playing in the NBA is far more difficult. Yeah.

[Kip Fanatic]

Doctors get paid a lot of money, so fatigue shouldn't affect their performance at all. Therefore, I expect that you will let a resident who has awake for 48 hours do life-threatening surgery on you. It shouldn't make any difference because the doctor is rich and drives a Lexus.

I never said that it doesn't take skill to play in the NBA. Yet, you say that people who have labor jobs don't have to use their minds at all just their hands and legs.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

[Extra Stout]

Again, if you were to have read my posts carefully you would have learned that I was not only a plumber's helper for a while, but also worked for my dad's company, which tied rebar for homes and commercial buildings. This isn't about me though. You make it seem like being a NBA player take's a bachelor's degree. Not so. You pretty much said that laborer's don't need to have any skill what so ever. That playing in the NBA is far more difficult. Yeah.

Being an All-NBA forward requires a level of skill that half a dozen people on planet Earth have. There are millions of people in the United States who can do what you do.

[Kip Fanatic]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

I saw that a long time ago. They're the same people who think OJ didn't do it.

[E20]

Bottom line is Timmy is declining, maybe because of age, but it's more so of all the talent around him, if Micheal Finley is open in the corner Timmy is smart enough to give him the easy 15-20 footer rather than go one on one with his defender.

[pache100]

But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

It doesn't have anything to do with "seeing the truth"; it doesn't have anything to do with this board (or the posters on it or where their loyalties are); it doesn't have anything to do with the Spurs team or players or Tim Duncan. It has to do with common sense. Kip's not using any.

[Leetonidas]

I really don't think the Spurs are tired, the problem is very simple.

Overconfidence.

The Spurs have had many big leads (for example, the 17 point lead against Sacramento) and they get all relaxed thinking it's in the bag and then before they can react, the lead is down to 3. This happens every year. If you haven't noticed, aside from Dallas, the Spurs have lost to bad teams (Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, and New Orleans...okay not all of them are that terrible, but they're definetly inferior to the Spurs) and it's because the Spurs expect a victory and tend to play at the team they're playings level. The first have is usually fine but they get their ass kicked in the end of the 3rd and 4th.

The Spurs just need to focus and stop buying into all the media's hype. They're the favorites for once, and I think they're starting to buy into this "unbeatable" crap.

[E20]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

Getting there in the NBA is , I mean you have to play ball for 7 hours a day just to make the cut, I've read about players sleeping in gyms just to play ball, but once you make the NBA you gotta work even harder to stay on top to outplay your compe ion and to get a contract/succeed.

What I'm trying to say is that most NBA players have worked really hard on there game and bodies to get where they're at.

[Extra Stout]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

So typical San Antonio. "Why does that doctor in the Dominion get to drive a Lexus while I drive my '84 Celebrity with primer fenders and no A/C? I bet I work harder than him. He just walks around his office all day writing prescriptions."

[Extra Stout]

Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player.

If it's so much easier and pays so much better, then why aren't you in the NBA?

[pache100]

If it's so much easier and pays so much better, then why aren't you in the NBA?

I don't think he's gonna answer that question, ES. He didn't answer when I asked it.

Let me ask you this...if it's so freakin' EASY, why don't you walk on and rake in some of the big bucks?????

[Extra Stout]

I don't think he's gonna answer that question, ES. He didn't answer when I asked it.

This is just typical San Antonio class war bull being projected on Tim Duncan.

"My life sucks, I work long weeks for crappy pay, and my only escape is watching the Spurs. My emotional well-being rises and falls with wins and losses.

So panoche Tim Duncan, I no wanna hear that chu tired, you rich mother er!"

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen delivery
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these color TV's

[easjer]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

Please, enlighten me. How hard should they be playing? Because I think they are just fine. 19-5. That's really tragic, isn't it? Second best record in the league is such an awful place to be.

Would I like it if Timmy were more dominant? I guess, if that could happen without a decline in the performance around him. Would I like to see more consistent play? Yeah. I would. But I'm not going to be all that concerned in December. I've already seen improvement, and know that these close games are going to make them a better team.

Since Duncan has been with the team, they've never had that fire or desire that everyone is criticizing. Instead, they've focused on gradual improvement and been on fire in March. If this is still their at ude in late January or February, I'll be concerned.

It's such a ridiculous statement. I'll be among the first to criticize their lack of cohesive defense and bemoan their screwup turnovers. It's not about not criticizing the team, it's about recognizing a couple of things: There ain't much to criticize and when you've taken to ing about some perceived lack of effort and HCA in DECEMBER you should remember what is fun about basketball and rooting for a team and lose the sense of en lement. Also, there are no awards for hustling in November or December. What matters is what happens in April, May and ultimately, June. Their track record there is pretty good.

As for Kip - his statements are just silly. Duncan is not allowed to be tired because he's a millionaire and people work harder than he does making less money. What does that have to do with having a highly selective skill? Nothing. Anyone is allowed to be tired and his arguments otherwise are eye-roll inducing.

And why you are on such a tear to rip apart the team and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a blind homer is beyond me.