Off topic ? on religion.

[Guru of Nothing]

I was not bein sarcastic at all.

That's funny.

[travis2]

Sorry, I have been busy with school.

Now 2centsworth, you say that a good and powerful god would never allow his word to be tainted, but that is a blatant contrast to the nature of God to begin with. We were given free will, and that free will is all-encompassing. God can not/will not go any lenghts to demand our allegiance, which would not be that difficult, and can not directly dictate our actions. All God can do is give a story to man and allow him to write of it what he will.

The men selected to write this book were Godly men, but they were still men, and thus inherently flawed. The main purpose of the story of God is put out in this text, which is all that God would truly desire or need, and to break the basic guidelines of the religion and life itself and force the hand of the writers and translators makes him a God none of us want to believe in.

As I had mentioned earlier, there are many teachings on God, many bibles, and a lot of them have much in common with our own. Why would this good and powerful God allow these teachings related to "himself" become tainted? What logic enables you to suggest that "he" safeguarded the Christian bible, yet allowed the catholic, 7th day adventist, the koran, and others to become "twisted"? It is part of the egotistical nature of man to believe that he is always right, and that his beliefs are perfect, but why, as peabody asked, must we believe the entire bible is 100% factual, and not just a very good spiritual guideline?

Just to throw something in here...Catholics are Christian. There is no reason to put them in separate categories.

[2centsworth]

That's funny.

Christanity makes a lot of common sense to me. Here's my thinking in a nuts :

1. Is there a God? Yes

2. Does he punish the bad? Yes

3. Is everyone bad? Yes.

4. Would a God who punishes people who violate his laws have a law book? Yes. It's called the bible and it's not a coincidence it's the best selling book of all-time. Otherwise we could plea ignorance on judgement day.

[Mr. Peabody]

Christanity makes a lot of common sense to me. Here's my thinking in a nuts :

1. Is there a God? Yes

2. Does he punish the bad? Yes

3. Is everyone bad? Yes.

4. Would a God who punishes people who violate his laws have a law book? Yes. It's called the bible and it's not a coincidence it's the best selling book of all-time. Otherwise we could plea ignorance on judgement day.

I would have to disagree with your first argument that the existence of God is common sense. I don't see how the existence of a supernatural being is common sense.

Well, actually, I disagree with all of these arguments being tabbed as common sense.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I would have to disagree with your first argument that the existence of God is common sense. I don't see how the existence of a supernatural being is common sense.

Ahah!! I knew you weren't a Rationalist.

[Mr. Peabody]

Ahah!! I knew you weren't a Rationalist.

I don't know that a rationalist would agree those four arguments are common sense.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't know that a rationalist would agree those four arguments are common sense.

Descartes would say that knowledge of God's existence is innate.

[Mr. Peabody]

Descartes would say that knowledge of God's existence is innate.

Right, however one can still be a rationalist and argue that knowledge of God's existence is not innate knowledge.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Right, however one can still be a rationalist and argue that knowledge of God's existence is not innate knowledge.

no, one couldn't (and wouldn't)

[Mr. Peabody]

no, one couldn't (and wouldn't)

Care to explain?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Care to explain?

According to Rationalists, objective truth is independent of what we experience. However, we have to ability to discover the truth through reasoning and logic (for example, we have the ability to use our mental faculties to learn mathematical concepts). Other truths are self-apparent because they were encoded in our minds since the beginning of time. The most fundamental and self-apparent truth is that God exists.

Edit: God (maybe not the Judeo-Christian god, but surely a sentient and creative force) is the source from which all reason and logic flows. Without God there is no reason, logic, or truth.

[Mr. Peabody]

According to Rationalists, objective truth is independent of what we experience. However, we have to ability to discover the truth through reasoning and logic (for example, we have the ability to use our mental faculties to learn mathematical concepts) . Other truths are self-apparent because they were encoded in our minds since the beginning of time. The most fundamental and self-apparent truth is that God exists.

Man, it's amazing how much information I've lost over the years.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Man, it's amazing how much information I've lost over the years.

Don't you remember that the three philosophers credited as the fathers of Rationalism are Spinoza, Liebeniz, and Descartes? Those dudes were always trying to prove the existence of God.

[Mr. Peabody]

Don't you remember that the three philosophers credited as the fathers of Rationalism are Spinoza, Liebeniz, and Descartes? Those dudes were always trying to prove the existence of God.

man, I took a class led Rationalism v. Empiricism, but I completely forgot that the existence of God was innate knowledge. I remember logic and mathematics, but forgot about God's existence.

[Oh, Gee!!]

man, I took a class led Rationalism v. Empiricism, but I completely forgot that the existence of God was innate knowledge. I remember logic and mathematics, but forgot about God's existence.

which is why your soul suffers in quiet desperation

[Mr. Peabody]

which is why your soul suffers in quiet desperation

That can't be the case, I sold my soul for $5. I even do ented the transaction by writing "Peabody's soul" on a piece of paper and giving it to the purchaser.

[Phenomanul]

That can't be the case, I sold my soul for $5. I even do ented the transaction by writing "Peabody's soul" on a piece of paper and giving it to the purchaser.

Reminds me of that episode where Bart sells his soul to Millhouse....

[2centsworth]

I would have to disagree with your first argument that the existence of God is common sense. I don't see how the existence of a supernatural being is common sense.

Well, actually, I disagree with all of these arguments being tabbed as common sense.

here's why i think each is common sense.

1. How do we know there is a creator/God. How do we know a building has a builder or a painting has a painter? We know because they exist. The existence of Man is proof enough for me that God exist.

2. Everyone thinks bad will be punished, whether you think of it as Karma or . Most people think Murderers, rapist, and child molestors who get away with their crimes on earth will be punished by God.

3. Are we all Bad? Just go down the ten commandments and you will soon realize not one person on earth is good in the eyes of God.

4. If there is a God, wouldn't it be strange if he didn't communicate with us? If there is punishment for wrong doing it is neccessary for God to hand down the law.


Whether you agree or disagree, that's my common sense approach to my faith.

However, not having faith is a gamble I'm not willing to take. Also, my faith enhances my life rather than detracts but even if it didn't I would still believe the same.

[Mr. Peabody]

which is why your soul suffers in quiet desperation

My reasoning used to be that logic and mathematics were necessarily a part of this universe, in that their existence was written in the fabric of the universe (overused statement, I know, but best way to put it). God, on the other hand, is not a necessary part of the universe. The universe could exist and continue to function as it does without God.

Now, lately, I have been reading some stuff that talks about how the basic rules of logic do not necessarily hold true for all things in the universe. And if logic has been vanquished, can I still hold on to mathematics. How long before that system is exposed? Where does this leave me?

This is why my soul is in quiet desperation.

[2centsworth]

My reasoning used to be that logic and mathematics were necessarily a part of this universe, in that their existence was written in the fabric of the universe (overused statement, I know, but best way to put it). God, on the other hand, is not a necessary part of the universe. The universe could exist and continue to function as it does without God.

Now, lately, I have been reading some stuff that talks about how the basic rules of logic do not necessarily hold true for all things in the universe. And if logic has been vanquished, can I still hold on to mathematics. How long before that system is exposed? Where does this leave me?

This is why my soul is in quiet desperation.

my understanding is that there's not a mathamatician in the world who doesn't believe in God. Also, the majority of Doctors do too.

[Mr. Peabody]

my understanding is that there's not a mathamatician in the world who doesn't believe in God. Also, the majority of Doctors do too.

What does this have to do with my statement?

And why would I care if doctors believe in God?

[Mr. Peabody]

my understanding is that there's not a mathamatician in the world who doesn't believe in God.

I would also like to see some proof of this assertion.

[2centsworth]

What does this have to do with my statement?

And why would I care if doctors believe in God?

I saw it as you using math to disprove the existence of god, but if not I withdraw the statement.

Nevertheless, I hope the best for you in your spiritual life.

[Oh, Gee!!]

My reasoning used to be that logic and mathematics were necessarily a part of this universe, in that their existence was written in the fabric of the universe (overused statement, I know, but best way to put it). God, on the other hand, is not a necessary part of the universe. The universe could exist and continue to function as it does without God.

Now, lately, I have been reading some stuff that talks about how the basic rules of logic do not necessarily hold true for all things in the universe. And if logic has been vanquished, can I still hold on to mathematics. How long before that system is exposed? Where does this leave me?

This is why my soul is in quiet desperation.

Hawking?

[Mr. Peabody]

I saw it as you using math to disprove the existence of god, but if not I withdraw the statement.

Nevertheless, I hope the best for you in your spiritual life.

No, I never said that math disproves the existence of God. I don't pretend to know enough about math to make such a statement.