Bruce VS AJ whose number would you rather see retired?

[ShoogarBear]

I am waiting with baited breath for the day when whottt mans up and posts his David Robinson vs. Coyote poll.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Since Parker, Gino, and Bowen are critical parts of the Spurs success, but individually may not warrant retiring their numbers, could the Spurs retire #41 (9+12+20) with the name Brarkobili?

[Darrin]

Sean Elliot

Sean Elliott - 669
Avery Johnson - 644

Yeah, there's a huge difference there.

There is nothing cheap about Steve Smith's shot when being compared to Avery's.

It is when Steve Smith spends 2 years with the Spurs and Johnson spent 10 years.

Spurs>Pistons

In this case, no. In this case, the Pistons have retired the numbers of contributors to a Championship run. Chuck Daly - 2, Joe Dumars - 4, Isiah Thomas - 11, Vinnie Johnson - 15, and Bill Laimbeer - 40 were all retired. All spent at least 9 years with the team and were leaders on the court. We're talking about 3 Hall-of-Famers and two guys that were around for a very long time.

Vinnie Johnson - 798 games, 10,146 points (12.7 PPG), 2,661 assists (3.3 APG), 2491 rebounds (3.1 RPG), 708 steals (.89 SPG)
- Hit game-winning shot in 1990 NBA Finals on the road.

Avery Johnson - 644 games, 6,468 points (10.1 PPG), 4,474 assists (6.9 APG), 1,222 rebounds (1.9 RPG), and 799 steals (1.24 SPG).
- Hit game-winning shot in 1999 NBA Finals on the road.

Someone had to start at PG. If we could have changed the rules to eliminate the PG position during that era...we would have. And we were setting a good example of why the position should have been eliminated.

The Pistons had a guy like that - Chucky Atkins. They had mild success with him as a starter (50 wins, Central Division le). But guess what? The Pistons went out and got Chauncey Billups to replace him when Atkins became a liability. In the time that Johnson was in San Antonio, Tim Hardaway was traded from Golden State to Miami. Mark Jackson was traded from Indiana to Denver and back. Damon Stoudamire demanded top dollar in Portland.

Most of all, the Pistons never brought Chucky Atkins back after he was traded. And they had a chance to when Washington waived him earlier this year.

If San Antonio was a premiere franchise, as you claim, as soon as David Robinson arrived, then why couldn't they draw a better free agent point guard? Why would they hang onto him?

That's really not that many steals...case in point...David Robinson had more and averaged more per game. The fact that our starting C averaged more SPG than our PG tells you exactly what the state of the franchise was.

David Robinson is 140th on the all-time list for steals in the NBA. Ben Wallace has averaged more steals than any other player his entire Pistons career. That's not a sad state of affairs. That's a Hall-of-Fame defender you're comparing a "scrub" Avery Johnson to.

Geezuz H...I know you aren't seriously attempting a comparison of Avery Johnson to Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, I don't give a flying f what their assist totals are...You fellow Pistons fans are likely to run you for that one.

Numbers without perspective mean nothing. In terms of being a floor general, Johnson was better than Dumars. He amassed about 100 less assists in 5 more years. My fellow Pistons brethren are smart enough to realize that I was simply trying to lend some perspective to the numbers, not making Avery Johnson into a Hall-of-Famer.

Not when you consider the fact that the guy who held the mark before
AJ had his career cut short due to a lifethreatening illness and set the mark in about 8 years.

Man, you can make an excuse better than anyone else I know. He's got the mark. He did it in 10 years, as opposed to 8. Johnson played two partial seasons with the Spurs, and was handicapped by 32 games because of the lockout in 1999, or the mark would be higher. So if you want to compare and make excuses to number two, there's a good argument for AJ, too.

Tony Parker is also only 22 years old...Avery Johnson wasn't even in the NBA at the age of 22.

That actually works against Tony Parker, not AJ. When he breaks the mark, if he breaks the mark, he will have had more time to do it. The fact remains:

1st Five seasons with Spurs:
Tony Parker - 2,182 assists (394 games)
Avery Johnson - 2,273 assists (306 games)

Tony Paker, in 6 more playoff games, will have started more playoff games than any PG in Spurs history...and he'll be 23 years old.

First 5 years with Pistons:
Isiah Thomas (1982-1986) - 18 playoff games
John Salley (1987-1991) - 90 playoff games

Does that mean John Salley is better than Isiah Thomas? No, it means he played on a better team. Salley was one of the last pieces added to the Pistons before they became elite.

Um...the Spurs were a premiere franchise the day David Robinson stepped on the court...they were that way before AJ signed here, they were that way when AJ signed here, they were that way when he was replaced with a 19 year old. They became more premiere after AJ left and Bowen signed.

You are selling guys like Sean Elliott, David Robinson, and Avery Johnson short.I didn't respect the franchise. I thought they were a joke, and couldn't win a playoff series. I remember the Spurs playing in the smallest arena in the NBA and then a football stadium. I remember people waiting for David Robinson to leave them like they waited for Vince Carter to leave Toronto, Lebron James to leave Cleveland.

But guys that are willing to take a paycut in order to win impress me more than any athlete doing anything else...

That is admirable. But he realized that he was apart of something special. When guys of Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel's ilk sign for minimum salary, they aren't doing it because they feel that's all they could get. Van Exel could've gone to the hawks, for instance, for the full mid-level exception. They go there to be a part of a special team, to win an NBA le. And when I say "elite" that's what I mean. The Spurs are treated the same way the Lakers are, and that's saying something. AJ was there for that. He held on as the other pieces dropped off.

Bill Lambeir > Avery Johnson....

Bill Lambeir, sure. Bill Laimbeer on the other hand...

Rasho Neterovich > ahhhh it...even I can't do that. Congrats...you are the first person to ever reach my AJ limit.

Sweeet.

What was AJ's career APG outside of the Spurs...IF when he wasn't tossing it into a Center who won a scoring championship with no point guard.

Well, there goes all the assist totals for John Stockton and Magic Johnson.

They called him that because he was short and bossy.

...I can do that. Retire my jersey.

Okay, you become an extension of the coach's system, lay into anyone who doesn't conform, demand the best from your teammates, play 10 years with the Spurs, win an NBA Championship, maintain a high level of play as everyone tells you that you suck, become the 130th most proficient passer in the NBA, then, we'll discuss it.

[veronicamae]

Well your little poll doesn't sound at ALL biased, talking about AJ being a " ing scrub" lol.

But I'd pick Bruce, because I was not a Spurs fan when AJ was playing, and I think Bruce will deserve it when he retires.