Short Lesson on Federal Deficit

[2centsworth]

With all due respect, my post was directed at Random Guy for a very particular reason. You have made your point and stance very obvious and it goes against what both of us beleive in, and I'm not talking from a Democrats standpoint. By the way, I'm not a Democrat.

I'm speaking of certain morals and values, particularly from a Christian standpoint. I happened to really enjoy what he had to say. That doesn't make someone self-righteous. If you feel that having that belief takes anything away from you in anyway, I apologize, but maybe it's something inside you, that you could look at.

I just wanted to thank him.

Just take note that the most generous people are Christian Conservatives.

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.....php?year=2005

[Extra Stout]

let me restate, 4.8% in the US and 12.1% in Germany. Germany is an example of using capitalism to change society for the better.

At 4.8%, the U.S. is nearly at full employment. There is a certain level of structural unemployment as people move between jobs.

Basically, in the United States, if you want a job, you can get one.

What's interesting, though, when you look into those unemployment numbers, is that in both countries, 47% of the population is employed. In both countries, roughly 70% of the population is of working age.

In the United States, the labor force is a smaller percentage of the population, despite the relative ease of finding work compared to Germany.

Apparently we have a contingent of people who could find jobs, but simply choose not to work.

And it is less common in Germany to have a two-income household than in the United States, so it can't be explained away as a bunch of stay-at-home moms.

I think we have a bunch of people perfectly able to work who simply prefer to sit on their lazy asses and look for a handout. They don't get listed as unemployed because they aren't counted as part of the workforce.

I really am not meaning to argue about the relative pros and cons of the German system vis-a-vis the American system. In Germany, I would not have had the freedom of self-determination in my career. People usually do what their fathers have done there. They are content to be a cog in the machine. I prefer the American system. I think the numbers show that our system, even with its flaws, has job opportunities that are being left unexploited.

My argument is that a lot of our problems are more related to the disintegration of basic morality within the social contract, and that this disintegration is in keeping with what is found in Third World countries, and that it is not something government can fix because it is ingrained in the culture.

Oh, by the way, I'm not making the "we need more religion so we can be moral" argument.

[2centsworth]

At 4.8%, the U.S. is nearly at full employment. There is a certain level of structural unemployment as people move between jobs.

Basically, in the United States, if you want a job, you can get one.

What's interesting, though, when you look into those unemployment numbers, is that in both countries, 47% of the population is employed. In both countries, roughly 70% of the population is of working age.

In the United States, the labor force is a smaller percentage of the population, despite the relative ease of finding work compared to Germany.

Apparently we have a contingent of people who could find jobs, but simply choose not to work.

And it is less common in Germany to have a two-income household than in the United States, so it can't be explained away as a bunch of stay-at-home moms.

I think we have a bunch of people perfectly able to work who simply prefer to sit on their lazy asses and look for a handout. They don't get listed as unemployed because they aren't counted as part of the workforce.

I really am not meaning to argue about the relative pros and cons of the German system vis-a-vis the American system. In Germany, I would not have had the freedom of self-determination in my career. People usually do what their fathers have done there. They are content to be a cog in the machine. I prefer the American system. I think the numbers show that our system, even with its flaws, has job opportunities that are being left unexploited.

My argument is that a lot of our problems are more related to the disintegration of basic morality within the social contract, and that this disintegration is in keeping with what is found in Third World countries, and that it is not something government can fix because it is ingrained in the culture.

Oh, by the way, I'm not making the "we need more religion so we can be moral" argument.

excellent post as usual and I think you're dead on.

[RandomGuy]

I don't have hatred for you man. Like the scripture you just quoted I'm trying to point out how you're acting. If it came across as an insult I apologize too.

Great Ceasar's ghost, I think we might have a first in the political forum!!
A conservative and a liberal have stopped insulting each other long enough to talk rationally and respectfully. I am actually going to surprise the heck out of you with what I will say in the next few paragraphs. Hopefully we can help puncture the overly negative "liberal/conservative" stereotypes that seems to be the norm in American political life.

Life is all about helping others. We disagree on the role of the government in the plight to help people. The government should only provide short-term assistance in certain cases. However, democrats want the government to take care of large groups of people for a very long time. As I have shown, it's going to bankrupt the country.

Life is all about helping others, this we can agree on 100%. We don't entirely disagree on the role of goverment in helping each other. The government should provide short-term "life-preserver" type assistance. Long time help depends on the cir stances.

Social security for those who have worked their whole lives is reasonable. As we both accede, benefits will have to be scaled back to avoid massive tax increases.

"Welfare" and associated programs represent a much more intractable problem. Give up on children in bad situations, and they will be shoving guns in your face when they are old enough. It is more expensive to keep a felon locked up for 25-life than it is to spend a bit extra on health care, nutrition, and education for that person for 18 years.

I am as against unlimited "give-aways" as you are. I think welfare-to-work provisions and similar are good things. As we have discussed previously, there are ways of doing this smartly, so that we don't foster dependence.

Medicare/Medicaid is another difficult conundrum. I get the sneaking su ion that these programs are milked more by greedy doctors than anything else. I have no data to support this, but would be interested to see if there have been studies done. I do have a co-workers anecdotal story of his diabetic mother on Medicaid: She was seeing a certain doctor on a weekly basis even though her prognosis was stable. Her son questioned this, and her condition was magically upgraded to the point that she didn't have to come in but once a month for check-ups.

This is where auditing and reviewing pays for itself. There should be a balance between making it easy enough for doctors to want to take on medicare patients, and hard enough to prevent most fraud.

I am all about doing things, and don't mind higher taxes to pay for them. I think we can avoid a LOT of tax raises in the future, if we start paying down our national debt now. A certain amount of US government debt is good and even desirable, but I think we are waaaaaay over that amount. That is one thing I think you and I also agree on.

We should help the poor and that's why Christians are some of the most generous givers of their time and money to humanitarian causes.

I agree. One thing that government does provide is an economy of scale and pooling of expertise.

Our disagreement comes from the ecomonic systems we support. I believe capitalism helps in the fight to help humanity more than does communism.

This is where you are very wrong about one thing: I don't think communism is a good idea.

Communism looks good on paper, but it completely ignores real human behavior. It also does not allow human beings to reach their full potential. Capitalism does, but unrestrained capitalism is almost as unhealthy as communism.

You can't run a football game without rules or referees, and you can't run an economy without laws, courts, and governmental oversight of some sort. The SEC is a great idea and example of this. Transparency and fair-play have to be imposed to some degree, otherwise you end up with robber barons and more poverty as capital is wasted on unproductive scams.

[RandomGuy]

Random Guy, I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for you beyond what words can express. You handle yourself very well with a high level of morality and intelligence. And obviously you have a big heart for the less fortunate and much forgotten.

For what it's worth, your story is a great one and just from another human being, I'd like to thank you for the human being that you are and the help that you give and the beliefs that you have.

The world needs more people like you. Great posts.

Thanks.

[RandomGuy]

more self-righteousness. He's moral because he's a democrat. Conservatism solves the problems of the less fortunate, liberalism empathizes with the problems.

Heh, I WAS an independent, leaning toward the GOP until the Bush presidency. I think that radicals have taken over the GOP and see the only real counterbalace to that as being active in the Democratic party. Unfortunately, I think the leaders of both parties are myopic jackasses.
Not that I am in love with being cynical. I do think that it is possible to be in politics and genuinely care about the public good.

[RandomGuy]

At 4.8%, the U.S. is nearly at full employment. There is a certain level of structural unemployment as people move between jobs.

Basically, in the United States, if you want a job, you can get one.

What's interesting, though, when you look into those unemployment numbers, is that in both countries, 47% of the population is employed. In both countries, roughly 70% of the population is of working age.

In the United States, the labor force is a smaller percentage of the population, despite the relative ease of finding work compared to Germany.

Apparently we have a contingent of people who could find jobs, but simply choose not to work.

And it is less common in Germany to have a two-income household than in the United States, so it can't be explained away as a bunch of stay-at-home moms.

I think we have a bunch of people perfectly able to work who simply prefer to sit on their lazy asses and look for a handout. They don't get listed as unemployed because they aren't counted as part of the workforce.

I really am not meaning to argue about the relative pros and cons of the German system vis-a-vis the American system. In Germany, I would not have had the freedom of self-determination in my career. People usually do what their fathers have done there. They are content to be a cog in the machine. I prefer the American system. I think the numbers show that our system, even with its flaws, has job opportunities that are being left unexploited.

My argument is that a lot of our problems are more related to the disintegration of basic morality within the social contract, and that this disintegration is in keeping with what is found in Third World countries, and that it is not something government can fix because it is ingrained in the culture.

Oh, by the way, I'm not making the "we need more religion so we can be moral" argument.

excellent post as usual and I think you're dead on.

... to borrow from 2cents...

I would like to get a bit more solid data to really find the answer. There is a big danger in letting anecdotes run policy, or for that matter form opinions.