Kobe can be shut down. See Pistons, Finals.
Shaq cannot.
Double team Kobe.
Vlade, Odom, Grant, Mihm are NO match for
Tim, Rasho, Malik, Robert, Sean, Massenburg.
Let's see how Grant, Mihm, and Odom do in the West. Let's see how well they can do well against the likes of. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming and the more fierce western conferecne.
Tony > Chucky
Kobe > Ginobili
Bowen > Butler
Tim > Odom
Rasho = Vlade
Our bench >>>>> Your bench
Rudy = Popovich
So did all our backups. Rasho wasn't a #7 -- please keep trying to spin that. You'd think Mihm would be able to play more then.I'd hope you recognize, since Mihm scores and rebounds better than Rasho per 48.
Why not?
Oh yeah, the sucking.
I'll concede this -- his .318 FG in playoff garbage time is almost as good as Rasho in full meltdown mode.
Tawnia,
Eat . Lakers suck and you know it.
The Lakers will be alright, but they may have to win their division to actually make the playoffs. One thing is for sure, if they stand pat, Mitch is even stupider than I thought. Five swingmen to split time behind Odom and Kobe won't cut it.
I don't think Sacramento is going to fall as much as people think -- they had a quietly good offseason; their pickups at guard were excellent given what they had to work with. And Ostertag could have a Mihm-like impact as well....
frankly that's what I feel like I'm doing every time I read one of your posts.Tawnia,
Eat .
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how LA performs. I'm not predicting that they'll win their division, I'm just saying I think they'll be better than people assume they'll be. And I still don't agree that LA's bench is bad, I think it's a VAST improvement over what it has been in the past.
And losing Shaq was not beneficial to the Lakers in the short term. I'm not going to re-hash why its better for them in the long term, because those of you that don't understand it haven't paid any attention to the situation that LA was in, or you probably just don't want to understand. In either case, I'm through discussing that.
Hate to break it to you, but Odom and Grant have both spent significant time in the western conference. Odom averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds over 4 years with the Clippers, and Grant averaged 11.5 points and 7.5 rebounds over six years with Sacramento and Portland. And I'm pretty sure they played against Duncan and Garnett while on those teams.Let's see how Grant, Mihm, and Odom do in the West. Let's see how well they can do well against the likes of. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming and the more fierce western conferecne.
Look, I think Radosoft is better than Chris Mihm.
Trading franchise/great players for a smorgasboard of good players in the NBA has always been a Rather bad proposition.
WOW!Kevin Kaster has down's syndrome.
The day has come where I have to say: I agree with Sequ
Who gives a crap. Kandi was drafted #1. Kobe was drafted #13 the same year Samaki Walker was drafted higher. Sometimes picks aren't accurate, I'd think you'd be smart enough to figure that out.Rasho wasn't a #7 -- please keep trying to spin that. You'd think Mihm would be able to play more then.
Mihm > Rasho.Why not?
Oh yeah, the sucking.
Grant averaged those number in the west 4 years ago. For reference, Steve Smith was averging 15 ppg back then. Do you want him on your team now? Last year Grant averaged a pretty underwhelming 8.7ppg 6.9rpg .46bpg in the east on a bad team. As already mentioned even Rasho fared better, and in the west no yet. Grant's contract is among the worst in all the NBA. No GM will touch it.Hate to break it to you, but Odom and Grant have both spent significant time in the western conference. Odom averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds over 4 years with the Clippers, and Grant averaged 11.5 points and 7.5 rebounds over six years with Sacramento and Portland. And I'm pretty sure they played against Duncan and Garnett while on those teams.
Odom is virtually the only solid help Kobe might have and he's known to be fragile. He played a healthy season for the first time in three years and he's had trouble with drugs in LA to the extent that he will be expelled from the league on the next infraction. He's played well but whether it will continue in LA, under Rudy T is not a given.
Again, LA sans Kobe does not impress me.
I wasn't using those numbers to give the impression that I believed that Grant would be putting up similar numbers this year. Of course I am fully aware of his previous season numbers and the fact that he's been out of the west for awhile now. What I was disputing was the fact that it was assumed that he wouldn't be able to do well against the WC because it was implied that he's never had the opportunity to, which is false. Both he and Odom played in the West and they both did well. If Grant contributed numbers somewhere near (even slightly lower than) his career stats I'd be more than satisified. And I'm a Lakers fan, there's no point in talking to me about the horror of a bad contract. We had Shaq's, remember???
It's not supposed to impress you. Kobe's on the team for a reason, he's needed. But if you're going to sit there and tell me that this year's bench isn't a vast improvement over what they've had in the last few years then I'd have to strongly disagree. And if the arguement is really over who's roster is better minus their star, well you're going to have to wait for a few months to really see the definitive answer to that. Frankly, the Spurs' roster with the exception of Parker and Ginobilli doesn't do a whole lot for me, but I know that you could say the same about LA, so we'll just have to wait and see how both teams play next year.Again, LA sans Kobe does not impress me.
That wasn't what was implied. It was 4 years ago and isn't relevant at all now. The point is still that players like Briant Grant who are already in decline don't generally improve their stats over time. Even less so when moved to a new team and a stronger conference.What I was disputing was the fact that it was assumed that he wouldn't be able to do well against the WC because it was implied that he's never had the opportunity to, which is false.
If Grant played at his career stats, it would be the best season he's had in 4 years.Both he and Odom played in the West and they both did well. If Grant contributed numbers somewhere near (even slightly lower than) his career stats I'd be more than satisified.
Someone mentioned that Kobe could be shut down and Shaq couldn't - ie the Det series. Shaq was shut down as well. He never faced a double team yet he only had one big game scoring. Tex Winters was on LA radio a couple of weeks back calling out Shaq's lack of D, rebounding and effort.
Det had a brilliant plan. For once, a team focused on shutting down Kobe and dared Shaq to beat them - he obviously couldn't. Prince had the main assignment but every defender kept their eye on Kobe to help out against any penetration or trap him off the pick and roll. And because of the Lakers offense - that was the only opportunities he had since LA didn't run, nor post up Kobe.
Det's D concepts were great that series but of course you'd have to really understand basketball to get it.
Tawnia79,
Your saying the Spurs minus their best 3 players doesn't impress you much? Well duh! Take the best three players away from any team see what you have left. Oh wait, doesn't that describe the Lakers?
Useruser666 :eyebrow
that was kind of the point...Your saying the Spurs minus their best 3 players doesn't impress you much? Well duh! Take the best three players away from any team see what you have left. Oh wait, doesn't that describe the Lakers?
This doesn't imply the idea that they've never played against these people consistently before? Odom was just in the WC a year ago, and you must have known that because you didn't take issue with any of my Odom comments.Let's see how Grant, Mihm, and Odom do in the West. Let's see how well they can do well against the likes of. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming and the more fierce western conferecne.
For the record, I'm not expecting Grant to do anything huge. 9 points and 7 boards is not an impossibility. He's a hard worker, so as long as he contributes as much as he possibly can then I'll be ok with that.
Perhaps that is because Shaq was taking three shots for every four Kobe was taking.Shaq was shut down as well. He never faced a double team yet he only had one big game scoring.
When you see that Shaq was shooting .631 and Kobe .381, and that Shaq got to the line more than twice as much as Kobe while shooting less, how do you come to the conclusion that Shaq was shut down and that the Lakers did everything right?
Detroit's strategy was brilliant alright -- when you shut down Kobe, he still shoots the ball at the same clip. It hardly matters what Shaq does because he'll never see the ball enough to make up the difference.
I don't understand then. You say the Spurs wouldn't be good without their three best players, yet infer the Lakers will be better than everyone thinks without their three best players? It's so funny how the Big Diesel goes to the little weed eater when you're looking down the other end of the barrel.that was kind of the point...
Useruser666 :eyebrow
Hahah, the difference between Shaq's contract and Grant is as enormous as the contract itself. The worst contracts aren't the biggest ones, there the ones that are overpaid. Shaq was still kicking ass and taking names. Grant was getting his ass kicked. Shaq every year is a MVP option. Meanwwhile Grant has hobbled knees that are getting worse. I'd rather have declining feet getting 20/10/2.5 than bad knees getting, what?, 8 and 6 if your lucky?
no, I was suggesting that the Lakers as a whole would be better than everyone expected. Someone then suggested that the Lakers sans Kobe wasn't that impressive, and that's where that argument came in. I'm not at ALL saying that LA could be good without its top three players.yet infer the Lakers will be better than everyone thinks without their three best players?
:brotha
See that is what you fail to realize, Tawnia, the Spurs players have already proven that while individually, they may not look as impressive, collectively they have shown that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The Lakers may, in time, show that they can too, but they have yet to do it.I was suggesting that the Lakers as a whole would be better than everyone expected. Someone then suggested that the Lakers sans Kobe wasn't that impressive, and that's where that argument came in
I'm of the opinion that if Kobe doesn't up his game immensely on both sides of the court, he will be just like TMac in Orlando. That dominant big is a huge, huge factor in a team's success. You can cite Jordan but I'll one up you with names like Oakley, Grant, & Rodman as big 4's who got double figures in points and rebounds plus held their positions defensively.
Who do the Lakers have that can do that...right now?
Anyways...I look forward to watching the season. Since I'm in SO CAL, I can't wait to hear how Jack Haley and the rest of the media spin mediocrity.
It can very well happen, unless Mitch figures out how to effectively deal his glut of swingmen and expiring K's.
What? First off, Grant's contract is about half Shaq's, so any thing he produces as a player needs to be halved anyway. Secondly, Shaq said he wouldn't play if he wasn't paid close to or at the max he can get through a contract extension. Buss initially offered him an extension until 2010 at $25M per, which would have made him the highest paid player in the league. Shaq rejected it, and asked instead for bigger annual increases that would have paid him between $35M-$40M at age 37. Shaq's worth $35M-$40M about as much as my left nut is. His toe will be long gone by the time he's 35, so there would be no point in paying him ungodly sums when he's worthless at ages 36 and 37 (and perhaps sooner than that). Thirdly, Shaq at that price would have put Buss in luxury tax if he had any desire to keep Kobe Bryant. By the time Shaq would leave at 37 (assuming Kobe stays), only THEN would the Lakers be able to build a core around him, and he'd be 32. Better to build a young core around a young 26 year old Kobe than a 32 year old Kobe.Hahah, the difference between Shaq's contract and Grant is as enormous as the contract itself. The worst contracts aren't the biggest ones, there the ones that are overpaid. Shaq was still kicking ass and taking names. Grant was getting his ass kicked. Shaq every year is a MVP option. Meanwwhile Grant has hobbled knees that are getting worse. I'd rather have declining feet getting 20/10/2.5 than bad knees getting, what?, 8 and 6 if your lucky?
Isn't that what you said last year? I don't think you understand that in the playoffs, anything goes.See that is what you fail to realize, Tawnia, the Spurs players have already proven that while individually, they may not look as impressive, collectively they have shown that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The Lakers may, in time, show that they can too, but they have yet to do it.
I've heard that, then all the calls supposedly go against the Lakers and then the whining starts.Isn't that what you said last year? I don't think you understand that in the playoffs, anything goes.
We'll see how Boy Wonder does without Batman, this year.
Don't confuse Laker Lanny with most Laker fans. Lanny is an idiot, pure and simple. Sort of a local village idiot.I've heard that, then all the calls supposedly go against the Lakers and then the whining starts.
Anyway, this talk of "they're a team" more than the Lakers can't be proven until we actually see how the new squad does.
We'll also see how Robot Duncan does during his 2nd year without Sarge Robinson.We'll see how Boy Wonder does without Batman, this year.
I guess I'll chime in and give you my 2 cents.....
The Lakers will be good, 50+ wins.
That's the bottom line....
We will sign Malone in the next few weeks, we have a good bench and the best 2 guard in the L.
Nuff said.
Oh and we have Slava...the equalizer
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