don't forget individual responsibility... if you get in car drunk and run over a family... excuse me .. it's YOU who made those choices... not the president not your mayor, police chief, or city councilman ... YOU made that choice... YOU will be held responsible for that... as for those soldiers that made that choice... THEY will face the consequences and I hope they are severe...
Either way the perpetrators are the lowest common denominator of human life but the age of the victim stokes my ill feelings towards them.Preliminary information in the military investigation put the age of the alleged rape victim at 20, rather than 15, as reported by her neighbors, officials and hospital records and officials in Mahmudiyah.
Is there anyone on this board against the death penalty that would care to make a one time exception?
And you are the same person that accused me of getting off topic.
Example: Using religion to justify beheading someone. They are still
responsible for murder. Right?
Former soldier "honorably discharged but with personality problems" is the first and only soldier charged as of Monday afternoon.
Could be the first step in using him as scapegoat, and whitewashing the others.
Based on all the other punishments handed out by the military in Iraq for misconduct, why would that possibility come to mind?
Oh, I don't think so. I suspect you will see some death sentences come
out of this.
I am sure that will make you so very, very, happy.
They did what they did, they deserve everything they get. So don't paint
all our GI's with a big brush. We all know how you support the troops.
that dumb was in the army
that girl was pretty butch.
Where did I justify beheadings?
Why are you comparing beheadings to this rape? Quit spewing your personal agenda in a thread that's about a 15 year old girl that got raped.
Is impossible to take please dont ban me seriously with such an incredibly realistic avatar.
Nice to be able to use your own pic, isn't it.
your first one was odd, your second one was realistically odd, and your next one just looks weird
you look like Duff looking at his
Do you make a habit of analyzing other guy's avatars?
We must all remember what dumbya has said.."we fight for our freedom in Iraq"..although I have still not been able to reconcile Iraq and our freedom...I guess I hate America for not CLEARLY seeing the correllation
Ok, I dislike Bush as much as the next guy, and the thought of him being tried and/or impeached is very high on my things I would like to see happen list.
However, to say that the reason he should be tried is not because of the illegal war that he started, or the wiretapping, or the constant breaches on cons utional limits of power, or the lying about reasons for the war......but because a few soldier happen to be sick, twisted bas s?
Sure soldiers should be expected to behave better than normal citizens because they are not normal citizens. They are supposedly the few, the proud, the ELITE, but there will always be a small percentage that does the unspeakable. That does not taint the rest of the men and women trying to do whats right.
Perhaps they are on edge because they are stuck in a war with no end in sight, which 90% of the world disagrees with, but that is simply irrelevant.
If Bush had instead sent the troops into Darfur to help with the situation there, but a couple troops raped or plundered it would not be his fault. You can make the claim that the commander in charge of these troops is to be blamed, but going all the way back to Bush would be irresponsible.
Again, there is enough to try him on without making outrageous claims such as that.
PATRICK SCHNEIDER/Observer Staff
CharlotteFormer Army soldier Steven D. Green (center) is escorted by U.S. Marshals from United States Federal Courthouse in Charlotte Monday after making his first court appearance. Green has been accused of raping an Iraqi woman, then shooting her with an AK-47 on March 12 in Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Green is now being held in the Mecklenburg County jail in Charlotte.
<snip>
Green, 21, is accused of going to a home in Mahmudiyah, Iraq with three other soliders on March 12, shooting three people inside, including a child, and then raping a woman before also killing her.Green was honorably discharged because of a personality disorder before military officials knew of the incident. If convicted in the killings, he could face the death penalty.FBI agents arrested Green in Asheville on Friday. It's not clear where he had been living, but he attended a funeral for a fellow soldier in Arlington, Va., recently.
<snip>
The Iraqi woman's body was found in the house with three other bodies. According to do ents unsealed this morning, other soldiers told military counselors during a combat stress debriefing about the attack. According to the do ents, the soldiers, members of the 101st Airborne Division out of Fort Campbell, Ky., saw the woman during a traffic patrol. They told another soldier to monitor the radio while they went to the home.
While there, Green went into a bedroom with the woman's three family members and an AK-47 and closed the door. They heard gunshots and when he emerged, he said: "I just killed them, all are dead," according to the do ents.
Then he and another soldier raped the woman. Afterwards, Green shot her in the head 2-3 times, soldiers told investigators.
The soldiers threw the AK-47, which was already in the house when they arrived, in a canal across the street. The woman's body was found burned, the do ents said.
Since when is a 15-year old a woman?
Every house in Iraq has an AK-47.
It's like indoor plumbing here.
this was the house
if anyone can figure out why this is so funny...PROPS
I was wondering how long it would take to have this thread hijacked by Xray and the other war appologists on this board.
Well after many failed attempts on the first two pages you guys finally succeded.
There is an interesting dynamic that happens in this thread though, the topic starts as a forum to vent frustration about the horrible acts of a some of the troops in Iraq (the second known incident of such abuse, the other being Abu Garab). I think there is a general undertone of condemnation of the war from the start, I mean any action is judged by the end result, and in this case if you weigh the costs versus the benefits for the Iraqi people, Im sure it looks like Gulf War II is a failure.
Then we start having Xray force dont ban me to defend beheadings and honor killings? Right well while you're at it dont ban me, before we can discuss what our military is doing to the people in Iraq you have an obligation, as a Muslium, to defend feet binding and the genital mutilation of women. WTF are you guys serious? How do beheadings and honor killings have anything to do with what happened here?
Im sure we can all agree the middle east is pretty ed up for women already, so that means it's kosher for us to invade and make it worse? What the kind of logic is that? dont ban me doesn't have to defend the actions of other Musliums to be outraged at this kind of thing. I mean I'm not asking you (insert thread hijacker's name) to defend the actions of people who bomb abortion clinincs and kill doctors before you can discuss abortion rights. No.
Rape is wrong, and it's exactly this kind of minimilizing ( happens) that allows it to continue. You dont honestly think that this is the only such case of rape in Iraq do you? no. When it comes down to it, that kind of at ude is , this is disgusting and I am morally appalled it happened and these soldiers just sent the WRONG message to the world.
In a culture like ours that props up big guns and rampant masculinity (in other words "let your do your thinking for you") what can you expect of the most "macho" men in your society? I think the first step in solving this kind of behavior is to stop minimalizing and take this for what it is, an act of barbarism.
when you bring up the McNamara House, you know the thread has gone south.this was the house
I can't believe you posted the McNamara house....this was the house
Ugh!??!
The disaster here beyond what happened to the young woman and her family is the terrible public relations that result from this. If you support what we are doing (or attempting to do) in Iraq, winning hearts and minds of the people are imperative. This sets that back more than a NYT article or Cindy Sheehan or Jack Murtha or whatever the right is bellyaching about at the moment.
I don't know that I saw anywhere in the thread that anyone said Bush was at fault for this but the resident right wingers sprung into action right away accusing people of doing just that.
If you want to look at a gray area or nuance, the limited information that is out there seems to indicate the Army thought this fellow had some emotional issues. It speaks to the type of people the Army is compelled to settle for as the war grows more and more unpopular. But even that is not the point of the thread.
The point is the stated goal of the Codpiece in Chief is set back by this criminal act.
How long before Rush comes out with a "I raped an Iraqi girl and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt?
^^OMG, what a bunch of BS. Cant you bring on a better argument that the
above.
Yeah, no one addressed this when I brought it up last week.The disaster here beyond what happened to the young woman and her family is the terrible public relations that result from this. If you support what we are doing (or attempting to do) in Iraq, winning hearts and minds of the people are imperative. This sets that back more than a NYT article or Cindy Sheehan or Jack Murtha or whatever the right is bellyaching about at the moment.
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