49 pick in draft gets 2 million if he completes his contract....

[MannyIsGod]

I think he'd be a Spur today if his buyout wasn't there. I don't buy the "he can't play next to Duncan" business; if he was cheaper, they would have given it a shot.

No , becuase he woudl have come over for the LLE.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, we don't know if the Spurs knew there was a deadline to the Panathinaikos offer. Perhaps they didn't. If, then, messing up happened on both sides and, to use your parlance, the Spurs also miscalculated.

They had already made their decision about what to do with the MLE -- they value Elson and Butler more than Javtokas. I know that's your main problem with all this, but there it is. That's what the Spurs think and most GMs would likely agree - especially when a team has exclusive rights to RJ.

[leemajors]

You're confused. Scola's contract demands are so high because of the buyout, which should be obvious to you. Teams balked at the double price of 1) trading a valuable 1st round pick to the Spurs for him, then 2) paying him a very large salary.

It's pretty simple.

most euro players with big buyouts take loans to pay the buyout, get on a payment plan, then pay it off when they get their second contract. that's scola's problem, not an NBA team's. or. if you are kristic, vlade pays it for you!

[MannyIsGod]

You're confused. Scola's contract demands are so high because of the buyout, which should be obvious to you. Teams balked at the double price of 1) trading a valuable 1st round pick to the Spurs for him, then 2) paying him a very large salary.

It's pretty simple.

Thats exactly what I said dumbass! Which why I said yesterday he'd come over for the LLE without the buyout.


Me - "The sky is blue."

Mr. Body - "No, you are oblivious and don't understand: The sky is blue"

[MannyIsGod]

Having a players exlusive rights is a major source of leverage in any type of contract negotiation. They have always been as much, and will continue to be as much even though Euro players have other avenues to get paid because to the vast majority of these players coming to NBA has a higher salary ceiling and has its own value outside of what you get in a contract.

[Mr. Body]

They had already made their decision about what to do with the MLE -- they value Elson and Butler more than Javtokas. I know that's your main problem with all this, but there it is. That's what the Spurs think and most GMs would likely agree - especially when a team has exclusive rights to RJ.

I understand that. What we've mostly been arguing about for seemingly like 10 years is how much RJ's value is and whether he was worth more than the LLE. I, of course, am saying he was. We don't know what was going on behind closed doors. In a free market, RJ is clearly worth more than the LLE. I understand why you're saying the Spurs were right only to lowball him -- because they could get away with it. I don't understand why you don't understand why he'd say no to it (for the glory of playing for future contracts? umm, okay...). Most GMs might agree that, with exclusive rights, a team has the right to lowball a player. I'm not sure most teams would do it. Regardless of whether they would, there's a slew of teams out there ready to pry him away from the Spurs next year who would pay him correctly, bring him over, and enjoy watching him block some shots.

The other risk to the lowballing strategy, which Manny seems to think is the most preposterous idea under heaven, is that it sets a bad precedent. When players see the Spurs' scout enter the arena, alone or with a pack of other scouts, will they be excited and play their best? Or will they recognize him as coming from the team that habitually lassoes young players into 2nd round picks and then forces them into below-market contracts? Coaches won't be too pleased these scouts are around - they want the best for their players. Agents certainly won't be too pleased. This is what I mean about doors closing. Getting drafted by the Spurs in the 2nd round would be significantly worse than getting drafted by any other team in that round.

[ChumpDumper]

Given that he only signed for a couple hundred thousand more, I can't really call it a lowball offer.

And there is no way I or you would've started any higher than the LLE when there were full MLE centers out there. Robertas didn't want to wait until Thursday to see if he cold get more. If he was feeling pressure to take the pretty modest deal from Greece, maybe he's just not that great.

[leemajors]

so it's in a player's best interest to not play hard when scouts from a specific team are in the arena? you are really reaching now. to risk getting a bad rep for half assing it?

[Mr. Body]

so it's in a player's best interest to not play hard when scouts from a specific team are in the arena? you are really reaching now. to risk getting a bad rep for half assing it?

Oh, they'd play well enough. The point is more that, literally and figuratively, doors will be closed. Coaches will shrug when the scout is around. The scouts won't be called up with exclusive tips as often, and so on. Having a reputation like that can dry up a lot of wells. Coaches and agents know what's up, and "playing cheap for the glory of the Spurs' empire" is not high on anybody's list.

[ChumpDumper]

That is the biggest load of I have ever heard.

Euros everywhere will dog it in front of Spurs scouts because Javtokas didn't want to wait and see if he could get another $200k!

[Mr. Body]

Read above post please and use powers of reading. Magic! Understanding!

And, as always, wonderful strawman argument!! A++++

[ChumpDumper]

Read above post please and use powers of reading. Magic! Understanding!

And, as always, wonderful strawman argument!! A++++

When players see the Spurs' scout enter the arena, alone or with a pack of other scouts, will they be excited and play their best? Or will they recognize him as coming from the team that habitually lassoes young players into 2nd round picks and then forces them into below-market contracts?

[Mr. Body]

Eh?

I'll keep talking, since you seem to be coughing up phlegm.

There are 29 other teams in the NBA European players and agents would rather give their tips to, work with, etc., than the Spurs, IF they continue this lowballing procedure.

[MannyIsGod]

I was copying and pasting from 2 posts to post the exact same thing. You beat me, .

[MannyIsGod]

Eh?

I'll keep talking, since you seem to be coughing up phlegm.

There are 29 other teams in the NBA European players and agents would rather give their tips to, work with, etc., than the Spurs, IF they continue this lowballing procedure.

You have no real idea on how hard it is to get into the NBA, do you? If an NBA scout comes, you don't around.

[Mr. Body]

You have no real idea on how hard it is to get into the NBA, do you? If an NBA scout comes, you don't around.

Read above post, please.

Nevermind, I'll go get it --

There are 29 other teams in the NBA European players and agents would rather give their tips to, work with, etc., than the Spurs, IF they continue this lowballing procedure.

You do realize scouting is more than just going to games, right?

[ChumpDumper]

I'll keep talking, since you seem to be coughing up phlegm.

You're calling your own posts phlegm?

[Mr. Body]

You're calling your own posts phlegm?

No, that gobbledy crap awful tagging you had, that you thankfully fixed.

[leemajors]

i am pretty sure the spurs scouting staff and organization has a good relationship with a lot of european coaches. when the scenario you proposes happens, do you think the agent will think of the way the spurs treated ginobili or them "lowballing" javtokas? the same firm represents both.

[MannyIsGod]

Read above post, please.

Nevermind, I'll go get it --



You do realize scouting is more than just going to games, right?

This now because the Spurs didn't give Javaktovas more money other players are going to jeparordize their NBA futures by black listing the Spurs?

Holy dude.

[ChumpDumper]

No, that gobbledy crap awful tagging you had, that you thankfully fixed.

I was lacking an "=".

Sue me for $210,000 and dog it in your workouts.

[Mr. Body]

i am pretty sure the spurs scouting staff and organization has a good relationship with a lot of european coaches. when the scenario you proposes happens, do you think the agent will think of the way the spurs treated ginobili or them "lowballing" javtokas? the same firm represents both.

Subjunctive case, my friend. I said "IF" they keep going this route, which is the route A-1 stamped with approval by Manny/Chump. They love this idea of bracketing players in with 2nd rounders then making them sign cheap contracts.

I know the Spurs have a good relationship with coaches, etc. They've spent a lot of money and effort building that network. IF they continue with this process (A-1 approved by 'geniuses' Manny/Chump) then there will be serious effects and no one will go out of their way to help us.

HOWEVER, I believe the Spurs recognize this. I hope they recognize this. I'm interested in seeing what happens next year with

1) Scola and Javtokas' rights, whether they are traded finally or Javtokas signs, and for what.

2) Their two 2nd rounders, one very late. I suspect they are changing their philosophy of letting talent develop overseas under the exclusive canopy of having 2nd round rights.

[ChumpDumper]

The moral of this story is:

Be better than Francisco Elson and you might get that extra $200k.

[Mr. Body]

The moral of this story is:

Be better than Francisco Elson and you might get that extra $200k.

Yet Elson is making way more than the LLE. Go figure.

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly.