Vince Young

[BeerIsGood!]

1. i am not worried about Leinart...hopefully he won't play at all this year

2. warner is going to have a good year; played very well against the best team in the NFC (seattle) and while they did not beat them, nobody else can either. seattle is going back to the super bowl, imo, and with good motivation as they got ed last year

3. vyoung has hardly done ANYTHING well in the regular season so far. and the way they are playing him is STUPID. either play him or don't play him...all this in for a series here and there is dumb and what little chance he has of becoming a good NFL QB gets smaller and smaller the longer they do it

If you look at the QB situation in the NFL right now you would see that... the talent pool is EXTREMELY dry. There are not enough quality starting QBs to go around much less many good, serviceable backups. Tight ends are a dime a dozen, but finding a proven leader with a strong arm, huge frame, quick feet, and a great work ethic to play the QB position is almost impossible. He showed at Texas that he has the ability to adapt and learn from his mistakes on the field. He has tough skin and doesn't fold under pressure (like, say Ryan Leaf). With the proper seasoning and coaching (and O Line) he'll be putting up numbers in time. Just like every other QB - it takes time to learn. The only QB to be successful immediately is Roth with the Steelers, but he had a great team around him that allowed him to only have to manage the games and not throw 25 to 45 times a game. There aren't 30 Payton Mannings or Tom Bradys to go around, and VY's talents are far too valuable at the QB position to move him elsewhere.

[johnsmith]

If you look at the QB situation in the NFL right now you would see that... the talent pool is EXTREMELY dry. There are not enough quality starting QBs to go around much less many good, serviceable backups. Tight ends are a dime a dozen, but finding a proven leader with a strong arm, huge frame, quick feet, and a great work ethic to play the QB position is almost impossible. He showed at Texas that he has the ability to adapt and learn from his mistakes on the field. He has tough skin and doesn't fold under pressure (like, say Ryan Leaf). With the proper seasoning and coaching (and O Line) he'll be putting up numbers in time. Just like every other QB - it takes time to learn. The only QB to be successful immediately is Roth with the Steelers, but he had a great team around him that allowed him to only have to manage the games and not throw 25 to 45 times a game. There aren't 30 Payton Mannings or Tom Bradys to go around, and VY's talents are far too valuable at the QB position to move him elsewhere.

I agree. Everyone that wants a quarterback to go out and perform at a high level as soon as he comes into the league is dreaming. And your Big Ben point is a good one as well, he didn't have to do much except not make mistakes, which he is really good at not doing. Vince Young may or may not become a good quarterback in the league, but we won't know that for another three to five years. He sure as isn't going to become a good quarterback though if Fisher keeps putting him in for a series or two, allowing him to make a mistake, and then yanking him, thus destroying his confidence. Either put him in or don't at all, one way or the other he'll learn, but not by doing it the way they are now.

Finally, 2cents is an idiot.

[johngateswhiteley]

on ESPN "Monday Night Kickoff" (on right now), they are ripping vyoung to shreds...pretty funny stuff.

Merrill Hodge: "vyoung is not a great athlete or great runner, people have to stop saying that. michael vick is a great runner and great athlete, vyoung runs a 4.5 40 and vick runs a 4.2 40. the ans have to stop designing run plays for vyoung, it is killing them."

translation: vyoung is overrated and those who said his strengths would not transfer to the nfl...are RIGHT. but to all vyoung fans: if you don't agree yet, just give it time.

[leemajors]

young is a great athlete, vick is a better one.

[johngateswhiteley]

young is a great athlete, vick is a better one.

in college, yes. in the nfl, no. he is just another guy with average speed.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

in college, yes. in the nfl, no. he is just another guy with average speed.

Vince will be alright, oh and Randall Cunningham was just another guy with average speed, but he seemed to do alright

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

in college, yes. in the nfl, no. he is just another guy with average speed.

And if you're going to declare bust this early in the season, look over at Reggie Bush

[Fillmoe]

young is going to amount to be a nobody just like half the posters in this thread

[johnsmith]

young is going to amount to be a nobody just like half the posters in this thread

I think you are being generous with the "half" thing. I agree though, I think Young is going to be sort of like Kordell Stewart, he'll have a halfway decent career at QB, get switched to WR and be so/so at that and then spend his days as a backup.
He was really fun to watch in college but I don't think he can make it in the NFL, could be wrong though. Oh, and his ing arrogance probably doesn't help much either, recently, he and Lendall White had a "NFL's Newest Millionaire's" party in Nashville.

[johngateswhiteley]

And if you're going to declare bust this early in the season, look over at Reggie Bush

you need to reevaluate the word bust, if thats what you truly think. either that or watch him play.

[leemajors]

in college, yes. in the nfl, no. he is just another guy with average speed.

i think there will be an adjustment period for him that may last a while, but i don't see any reason to assume he won't be able to adapt. his first couple games at UT weren't all that great either. most qbs have a difficult transition to the NFL speed.

[johnsmith]

i think there will be an adjustment period for him that may last a while, but i don't see any reason to assume he won't be able to adapt. his first couple games at UT weren't all that great either. most qbs have a difficult transition to the NFL speed.

But most college QB's play in an offense that at least somewhat resembles an NFL style offense. VY played in an offense that was more similar to an High School offense, very simple, very run heavy, and with heavy emphasis on the option. Obviously it worked fantastic for them at UT, but it doesn't translate well to the NFL.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

i think there will be an adjustment period for him that may last a while, but i don't see any reason to assume he won't be able to adapt. his first couple games at UT weren't all that great either. most qbs have a difficult transition to the NFL speed.

He looked good in spurts during the cowboys game. In my opinion what ultimately decides how good you are in the NFL is how good your teamates are. Put Ben Rothlisberger or on the ans and he's probably no where near as good as he is today.

[stretch]

you need to reevaluate the word bust, if thats what you truly think. either that or watch him play.

you could do the same for VY. his stats arent great, but watching him play, especially at the toughest position in the NFL, you can see that he showed more good than he did bad. and he doesnt have the luxury of great recievers or great backs to help him out. he has a few decent players around him on offense, but not like Bush. he backs up Deuce McCallister, and has Drew Brees as QB and Joe Horn opening up the offense in the passing game. who does Vince Young have helping him on offense? the only guys who look any good are Lendale White (Rookie RB) and Ben Troupe (TE), and they arent players the caliber of guys like McCallister and Horn. give him some time. QBs usually take at least 3 years to truly develop. he has started 1 game, and you think hes a bust. you truly are a model of ignorance.

[Horry For 3!]

you need to reevaluate the word bust, if thats what you truly think. either that or watch him play.

I wouldn't say bust but he has yet to score a TD through 4 games.

[stretch]

i think there will be an adjustment period for him that may last a while, but i don't see any reason to assume he won't be able to adapt. his first couple games at UT weren't all that great either. most qbs have a difficult transition to the NFL speed.

very true. he started in college rather slowly, but once he got some experience, and got comfortable, he was amazing. and there are some things he has that cannot be developed... knowing how to win, handling pressure, and leadership skills. he clearly has all, as he singlehandedly beat the Trojans in the Rose Bowl. and he has shown that he can be a very effective passer. i thought the majority of his passes yesterday were very good, accurate, and crisp. he has shown he has a strong arm as well. in time, i think he will be a very good NFL QB. he hasnt shown any signs that he will be unsuccessful. the only people that think hes a bust are people that are bitter over the Longhorns beating the Trojans, racists, and ignorant assholes.

[johnsmith]

He looked good in spurts during the cowboys game. In my opinion what ultimately decides how good you are in the NFL is how good your teamates are. Put Ben Rothlisberger or on the ans and he's probably no where near as good as he is today.

I totally disagree. I think that how good your teammates are certainly decides how good your team is and having terrible receivers or no running game can certainly affect how good your quarterback numbers and stats are, but they don't show how talented you are. For example, Dan Marino had absolutely no running game for most, if not all of his career and he is a considered a pretty damn good quarterback. John Elway had a weak offensive line most of his career as well as a weak running game for most of his career and he put up MVP numbers during this stretch, he even won the MVP during this stretch. In fact, Elway became the most sacked quarterback of all time during his career so his offensive line wasn't ever that great until about 1995.

[johnsmith]

very true. he started in college rather slowly, but once he got some experience, and got comfortable, he was amazing. and there are some things he has that cannot be developed... knowing how to win, handling pressure, and leadership skills. he clearly has all, as he singlehandedly beat the Trojans in the Rose Bowl. and he has shown that he can be a very effective passer. i thought the majority of his passes yesterday were very good, accurate, and crisp. he has shown he has a strong arm as well. in time, i think he will be a very good NFL QB. he hasnt shown any signs that he will be unsuccessful. the only people that think hes a bust are people that are bitter over the Longhorns beating the Trojans, racists, and ignorant assholes.

I don't think he's a bust, but he very well could be in the end........I'm pretty sure I was rooting for UT at the time, I'm not racist, and I don't think I'm ignorant though.

[johngateswhiteley]

you could do the same for VY. his stats arent great, but watching him play, especially at the toughest position in the NFL, you can see that he showed more good than he did bad. and he doesnt have the luxury of great recievers or great backs to help him out. he has a few decent players around him on offense, but not like Bush. he backs up Deuce McCallister, and has Drew Brees as QB and Joe Horn opening up the offense in the passing game. who does Vince Young have helping him on offense? the only guys who look any good are Lendale White (Rookie RB) and Ben Troupe (TE), and they arent players the caliber of guys like McCallister and Horn. give him some time. QBs usually take at least 3 years to truly develop. he has started 1 game, and you think hes a bust. you truly are a model of ignorance.

did i say he would be a bust? no i did not. do i think he will be a bust...yes, but i thought that long before he even played a down in the NFL.

...and just for the record, if he is going to make it in the NFL, he needs to start getting rid of the ball on bad plays, throw more accurately, and stop thinking he can run anytime there is a bit of green in front of him.

[Horry For 3!]

Also, being compared to Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and so on. I would think 0 TDs in 4 games would seem like some sort of bust.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I totally disagree. I think that how good your teammates are certainly decides how good your team is and having terrible receivers or no running game can certainly affect how good your quarterback numbers and stats are, but they don't show how talented you are. For example, Dan Marino had absolutely no running game for most, if not all of his career and he is a considered a pretty damn good quarterback. John Elway had a weak offensive line most of his career as well as a weak running game for most of his career and he put up MVP numbers during this stretch, he even won the MVP during this stretch. In fact, Elway became the most sacked quarterback of all time during his career so his offensive line wasn't ever that great until about 1995.

Well i'm not positive, but I think Elway, Marino, and Aikman all started off slow, until they adapted to NFL play. I'm not saying that teamates show 100% of players ability, but they can make decent players look great, or great players look decent. Look at guys like David Carr, he is a pretty good quarterback with no support.

[T-Pain]

i think its way too early to determine whether VY is another Mike Vick or Kordell Stewart

[johngateswhiteley]

Also, being compared to Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and so on. I would think 0 TDs in 4 games would seem like some sort of bust.

simple, he is not the feature back and Deuce gets most of the goal line action (almost all the goal line carries).

[johngateswhiteley]

i think its way too early to determine whether VY is another Mike Vick or Kordell Stewart

btw, neither are good QBs.

[johnsmith]

Well i'm not positive, but I think Elway, Marino, and Aikman all started off slow, until they adapted to NFL play. I'm not saying that teamates show 100% of players ability, but they can make decent players look great, or great players look decent. Look at guys like David Carr, he is a pretty good quarterback with no support.

Elway started out slow, took him a full season. Marino was Marino from day one though, and led his team to the super bowl his rookie year. I'm not sure about Aikman either. I agree with you about teammates making a difference though, I'm just saying that the great ones make up for their teammates.