Rant on, Snake! Rant on!Gotta love the word "torture" being thrown around. Some of you make it sound as if we are crushing hands in vises, chopping of limbs, burning, maiming, etc. Get a ing grip. Were our captured soilders treated fairly after being captured? no! They were mutilated, decapitated or drug behind vehicles. Then, after all is said and done, a video is distributed showing what they did. When are you going to get it? These people don't give a about anything but killing us. They are probably sitting back and laughing at us waiting for us to implode from within. We need to stop being pussies and drop the ing hammer down on this plague to society. We seem to care more about our enemy and their rights than we do about our own.
I wish both parties would cut the he said she said crap and get this done. Yes, we are gonna piss some people off but god damn I'm so tired of all of this terrorist BS.
Sorry...had to rant.
So, if an English national is legally visiting the United States, would it be your position that he has no due process rights if he happens to be arrested (can be imprisoned for a crime without an indictment, tried without the benefit of counsel, be deprived of process to obtain testimony from witnesses in his favor) and can be punished differently than an American citizen if convicted of a crime?
So, we'd be justified in flying planes into their buildings then, too, right?Gotta love the word "torture" being thrown around. Some of you make it sound as if we are crushing hands in vises, chopping of limbs, burning, maiming, etc. Get a ing grip. Were our captured soilders treated fairly after being captured? no! They were mutilated, decapitated or drug behind vehicles. Then, after all is said and done, a video is distributed showing what they did. When are you going to get it? These people don't give a about anything but killing us. They are probably sitting back and laughing at us waiting for us to implode from within. We need to stop being pussies and drop the ing hammer down on this plague to society. We seem to care more about our enemy and their rights than we do about our own.
I wish both parties would cut the he said she said crap and get this done. Yes, we are gonna piss some people off but god damn I'm so tired of all of this terrorist BS.
Sorry...had to rant.
BTW, those of you who think the government won't misuse power you give them you should go ahead and read up on how the BetOnSports CEO was arrested. Fighting Terrorism eh?
All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.
The principles the cons ution embodies go farther than the language.
Do you really want to go into the "if it's not illegal, it must be ok" fallacy?
We didn't give "cons utional priviledges".
We gave them basic human rights.
Hiding behind the letter of the law is the way of moral cowardice.
So if you aren't a US citizen, you have no rights.
How is that any different than a man beheaded with no trial?
The people we fight have no morals, so we shouldn't either? Is that what you would have us become?
"Dropping the hammer" is all well and good, but it is a bit like throwing water on a grease fire.Gotta love the word "torture" being thrown around. Some of you make it sound as if we are crushing hands in vises, chopping of limbs, burning, maiming, etc. Get a ing grip. Were our captured soilders treated fairly after being captured? no! They were mutilated, decapitated or drug behind vehicles. Then, after all is said and done, a video is distributed showing what they did. When are you going to get it? These people don't give a about anything but killing us. They are probably sitting back and laughing at us waiting for us to implode from within. We need to stop being pussies and drop the ing hammer down on this plague to society. We seem to care more about our enemy and their rights than we do about our own.
I wish both parties would cut the he said she said crap and get this done. Yes, we are gonna piss some people off but god damn I'm so tired of all of this terrorist BS.
Sorry...had to rant.
Having such a one-dimensional strategy ignores the most effective tool in fighting people with no morals: people know ethics when they see it. If we consistantly demonstrate we have none, we prove Al Qaeda right in the world's eyes.
This isn't about winning militarily, dumbass, it is about damping extremism.
If he's here to commit an act of terroism. Yes.
what's terrorism by an English national?
Was MacVeigh a terrorist? Did MacVeigh have any rights? Seems to me he and Macnicols were fully covered by US law.
Yoni's "principles" are nothing chavinistic foggy bull .
Oh. So cons utional rights are available (or may be curtailed) on an ad hoc basis, depending on what the government thinks your intentions might be -- providing, of course, that if the government decides to act, it apparently has no obligation to ever explain why it thinks your intentions were terroristic, because it can deny cons utional rights to presumed terrorists on a case-by-case basis.
Yes, you've convinced me that there's absolutely no need to be concerned with the erosion of cons utional rights. None whatsoever.
When I'm living in a police state, I'll be secure in the knowledge that those my government thinks might be terrorists are being tortured somewhere in the name of protecting me from dying in a terrorist attack.
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 09-30-2006 at 10:52 PM.
Good, I'm glad you understand.
Ok, in that case let's halt abortions.
You didn't want to open up that can of worms did you?
,
No tom tommorow, Modern World?
Take this up with Abraham Lincoln.
(hands Yoni his brownshirt)
Have at it.
They would be ashamed of such things. Rights cannot be separated from men based on place of birth. Do some more reading on the whole Enlightenment thing.
That is precisely why we are losing the war on terror. People like you don't understand that it is a war of ideas, and not a military conflict, so you keep supporting policies that not only fail to achieve what they intend, but are actually incimal to them.How is that any different than a man beheaded with no trial?
The people we fight have no morals, so we shouldn't either? Is that what you would have us become?--RG
We are waging war with these countries and are racking collateral damage, that is much more harmful to human beings than waterboarding.
I think people like you are the only ones up in arms about our detainee programs.
We are trying to change minds in the mid east, not yours.
...and doing a swell job of it too.
Poll: Iraqis back attacks on U.S. troops
_Almost four in five Iraqis say the U.S. military force in
Iraq provokes more violence than it prevents.
_About 61 percent approved of the attacks — up from 47 percent in January. A solid majority of Shiite and Sunni Arabs approved of the attacks, according to the poll. The increase came mostly among Shiite Iraqis.
We are trying to change minds in the mid east, not yours.
Yeah, by radicalizing as many people as possible.
WOW!! I'm a dumbass. Apperantly you are an expert on Foreign Policy but you cant even keep up with your ing credit card payments. Look, you can pretend to be the SpursTalk political guru with all the answers to ending terrorism but when you throw out an epic post like the one below, you've pretty much lost all accountability across the board.
So you have ALL the answers to winning the fight on terrorism but you decided defaulting on a credit card would be a good idea and you don't care about your credit rating? Holy Batman! I suggest you spend less time dwelling on politics and enroll in some personal finance courses.
Back to politics, which you seem to be an expert on...please tell me when Intro to Ethics 101 is being offered at the local Al Qaeda training camp. I bet that ing class is so full people are sitting on the floor. Also, please explain how we (the US) is "constantly" demonstrating we have no ethics. Are you more concerned with what Pierre in France thinks of us or defeating terrorism? I'm thinking you might have a thing for Pierre.
Look, as I said before, I enjoy your post but please refrain from calling people a dumbass for expressing their opinion. Just because you "think" you have all the answers....you don't.
Out
Fallacy: Ad Hominem
Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her cir stances, or her actions is made (or the character, cir stances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, cir stances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
(see above)So you have ALL the answers to winning the fight on terrorism but you decided defaulting on a credit card would be a good idea and you don't care about your credit rating? Holy Batman! I suggest you spend less time dwelling on politics and enroll in some personal finance courses.
Other than spending most of the post on childish personal attacks, there is little to respond to.Back to politics, which you seem to be an expert on...please tell me when Intro to Ethics 101 is being offered at the local Al Qaeda training camp. I bet that ing class is so full people are sitting on the floor. Also, please explain how we (the US) is "constantly" demonstrating we have no ethics. Are you more concerned with what Pierre in France thinks of us or defeating terrorism? I'm thinking you might have a thing for Pierre.
Look, as I said before, I enjoy your post but please refrain from calling people a dumbass for expressing their opinion. Just because you "think" you have all the answers....you don't.
If we bend our ethics, as Bush has done to allow for Guantanamo and torture, or rendition, it makes the claims of Al Qaeda types seem more plausible.
We will take hits in the PR war no matter what we do, but if we show that we are willing to comprimise our own principles, that demonstrates cowardice and fear.
You mention France, and surprisingly enough, we now not only have to deal with the radicals in the middle east, we have to deal with muslims in the West as well who see all that is taking place and have stopped sitting on the fence.
As I have said before, this is a war of ideas, and your ideas don't seem to be winning it, do they?
If you spent a little less time on personal attacks, and more on actually thinking logically, I might respect your opinion more.
All you end up "proving" is that you can't control your temper.
On that note the "dumbass" on my part was just as bad, and simply a symptom of my frustration. My apologies.
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