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Im still waiting for a report from Europe on how Macabbi is so stunned they lost... I mean, they DID beat the Raptors... Cause when I think NBA, I immediately think of The Raptors!!
Oberto did well on the boards today.
Im still waiting for a report from Europe on how Macabbi is so stunned they lost... I mean, they DID beat the Raptors... Cause when I think NBA, I immediately think of The Raptors!!
France has 600K Jews vs 6M Arabs, so there is huge connection between Israel and Fench Jews. France has the largest Jewish population of any European country.
The unpunished harassment of Jews by Arabs has caused quite a number of French Jews to immigrate to Israel.
Maccabi having a large contingent of French/Israeli fans is no surprise.
Last edited by boutons_; 10-09-2006 at 04:38 AM.
I'm sure.
waits for Mouse to come in with his George Bush alias and make a stupid, but funny, comment about that post
Oh come on......
As a french I can't stand such clueless statements
You do know that :
- Being jew = religion
- Being "Arab" = ethnicity
Not all "arabs" (as you say) are muslim, do you know that? And there's "arab" jews (not much, but there are some..). And there's also quite a number of black (sub-sahara africa), asian (Pakistan, etc.) muslims as well....Moreover, the vast majority of those 6M "arabs" are french nationals...
Way of over-simplifying (I don't know if that word exists...) things!
There has been problems between the communities (ie. tail molotov on jewish school, etc.), so the problem does exist. But the scale of these issues are way overrated in the US.
It reminds me of the french riots in 2005 : I live in Paris and when I watched CNN, they made it look like it was iraq out there...
"You do know that :
- Being jew = religion
- Being "Arab" = ethnicity"
Being Jew doesn't mean practicing Jewish religion. Jews in France are mostly ethnic Sephardim from N. Africa. (non-Muslim) Ethnic Arabs are the huge problem in France, and worse when they are radicalized Muslims.
"There has been problems between the communities"
Huge understatement, and made by a Frenchie who doesn't have many, any?, Jewish friends in France.
Jewish kids are harassed, traumatized every day from/to school by Arab kids (and racist French). The occasional Molotov tails at Jewish establishments makes the news, but the much more widespreead and frequent harassment of Jews by Arab youths doesn't. Jewish parents advise their kids not to wear yarmulkas or any outward sign of Jewishness. Complaints by Jews to the police don't stop the harassment by Arabs.
Yes, most of the 6M Arabs in France are French nationals, and is also where the Arab youth unemployment rate is twice the very high ethnic French/white youth unemployment rate. Easily radicalized by clerics, respecting nobody and nothing, easliy living lives of crime because they can't get jobs, have weak/no education (Arab culture in France doesn't place a high value on education because many of the adult population are uneducated manual laborers), profiled/harassed by the police, terrorizing "les cites" and "les banlieues", yearly riots, etc, etc.
Do you deny that there has been a wave of Jews (all French nationals) that has immigrated to Israel for a better quality of life for their kids, to avoid harassment by Arab France?
In my visit in France, the "Arab problem" and French/Arab is a huge concern driving French people's insecurity and major drag on French life. "SOS Racisme" was founded what? 25 years ago? The French/Arab is not a new problem and has been steadily getting worse since the early 1980s.
Watch the security issue be, yet again, a huge issue in the Royale/Sarkozy presidential race.
btw, do you vote National Front?
Hmm...sorry but No.
being jew = being muslim= being christian = religion
In France there's "sépharate" (sorry I don't know the english word) jews from northern africa and "ashkenaze" (idem) jews from eastern europe....
And "ethnic arabs" are a "problem" only to people who don't (won't ?) accept them...
You don't wanna go there....
But even that's irrelevant because that argument leads nowhere. what does it prove?
As a minority myself, I know that closet racists trying to convince me that in fact they aren't racist always tell me "Look, I know that many jews/muslims/etc...so I'm not racist". Sorry, but it just isn't an argument to me...
What you wanna do, compare the numbers of jewish friends we have ?
no comment...I agree there's a problem but that's way overstating things...
It's true the situation has become more tense since the last intifada, and french jews do feel more insecure (and they have reasons to feel that way), but what you describe just doesn't represent fairly what happens really.
Don't trust the 20 sec. sequence on international news you have every week on American TV...
Man, there's so much inaccurate things in what you say that I won't adress them all, It would take all day.
You just don't know what you're talking about. Again, Don't trust the 20 sec. sequence on international news you have every week on American TV... It ain't that simple.
I'm just gonna say this : no generalizations (?) please.
I happen to come from the suburbs (cités) you're describing - I'm french, but my parents came from Africa - so I'm aware of the situation of minorities in France. But the description you're making of the "cités" is just full of clichés, and in fact...ridiculous (sorry, but it is).
And FYI, there's not only "arabs" in the cités (there's also "caucasian frenchs", blacks, asians,...christians, muslims, jews,etc.). And not all "arabs" are the same you know.
I don't. Many jews considered the move.
But saying that there's been a wave is way exagerating the phenomenon. I'm too lazy to look for / post the actual figures, but I can garantee that.
And by the way, I'm not too sure about the "better quality of life for their kids" they may get in Israel right now....
Linking insecurity with "arabs" or "immigration" is the problem to me. I mean what kind of simplification is this ? so if you drive all the arabs out of france there won't be insecurity anymore ??
The real issue here is the place of french nationals of african origin within french society, and it's too big an issue to be discussed here.
And what has "SOS Racisme" to do with all this ? It's an organisation created to fight all kinds of racism (or antisemitism...)
You got that right. The "security" issue sure will be at the center of the presidential race.
What ???btw, do you vote National Front?
I'm black man....
Do you know what the FN is ? They're not really "black friendly" you know
They basically consider that all the problems in France are caused by the "immigrés" (arabs, blacks..in fact everyone that aren't white) and want to strip them from their french nationality and expel them from france....
And they aren't "jew friendly" also, their leader being famous for his jokes about the "crematory furnaces" in the extermination camps or for considering the Holocaust as just a "detail" of the 2nd World War....He also said that the Nazi occupation of France was "not so bad"...
Sorry, but don't act like a french politics specialist when it's clear you don't really know what you're talking about...
Last edited by pppp; 10-09-2006 at 09:21 AM.
Nice post pppp! I still don't understand how this thread get to that political questions but as a white french guy living in Paris, I confirm your impressions.
Racism and interreligious tensions exist in France. Powerty and security issues also.
These questions are really complicated, have a lot to do with french history (colonialism, slavery, WW2,...), have a lot to to with sociologic issues, have a lot to do with... everything. So you can't put all the fears in the mix and jump to definitive conclusions.
Does americans tried to explain terrorism with 1992 LA riots?
Last edited by mathbzh; 10-10-2006 at 02:25 AM.
Although political and religious aspects cannot be ignored, I'll take this back to basketball which is the primary subject in this thread. It is well-known, particularly in Europe, that Maccabi has some of the most loyal fans. They are treated like a national team and on Thursday nights, or any time they play, a high percentage of households are watching Maccabi. Fans save up their money and travel to see the Yellows play wherever the games are played.
Maccabi has some excellent outside shooters but Arnold was the only player who showed any inside presence. He was impressive in his footwork and confidence in the post. Yaniv Green just could not handle Duncan. Vujcic is a very good player and he was money from the outside but that's his strength. They really miss Anthony Parker's playmaking, slashing and scoring. No Maceo Baston to rely on.
I was impressed with Lior Eliyahu's offensive game. If he can learn to play defense and bulk up a bit more, then the Houston Rockets will be pleased with him if they ever do sign him. Jasaitis is a very good player and he has excellent touch from the outside, even making some tightly contested shots.
The Spurs played some pretty decent defense in the first half of this game. After Bowen let Rodney Buford slip behind him for the alley-oop dunk, he tightened things up and defended very well. The Spurs also played over the screens very well and when they switched, recovery was good. I hope that trend continues as they meet up with NBA teams.
Noticeable plusses:
* Ginobili and Oberto chemistry. Flow and tempo is very good with them in there together. I think it may have been a real plus for them to start out playing together in the Spurs system in Europe. It may just provide a perfect transition from their FIBA WC tournament style of play last month to the NBA rules and mindset.
* Matt Bonner found his shooting touch. He got 10 points in like what? 2 minutes? He looked more comfortable in the offense. Now he just needs to get the defense down, now... as it was rather unremarkable.
* Timmy isn't deferring as much. That's a noticeable plus.
* Elson is the new Kevin Willis on the fast break. Let's hope he doesn't get as many illegal screens called as Kevin used to get (or as many as Nazr for that matter).
* Jacque Vaughn can actually make a shot. Even though it was a layup, it was in traffic.
* Tony Parker is hustling for rebounds. He frequently moved to the FT line/top of key area when shots went up, and got defensive rebounds, a la Jason Kidd. It's amazing how many caroms end up in that area, if the Spurs PGs would actually go there first instead of watching.
Last edited by Solid D; 10-09-2006 at 10:16 AM.
Thanks, that was my point exactly : these are really complicated issues. You can't adress them with bold, definitive statements.
Anyway sorry for going off topic.
On topic
I agree, Oberto looked good. He looked like his old self. His combo with Ginobili is an asset.
LJ and I were replaying that sequence late last night. Bowen lost Buford for a second and actually confused him with the ref
pppp welcome to the board, nice first posts.
Thanks for reverting back to basketball - there's a pretty active political forum on this board where you can debate those issues at heart's will.
Thanks.pppp welcome to the board, nice first posts.
Thanks for reverting back to basketball - there's a pretty active political forum on this board where you can debate those issues at heart's will.
This board sure is the best.
From now, I'll debate political issues in the dedicated sections :p
Some random thoughts on the game:
- I liked Melzer's length but he definitely seemed nervous out there, especially when he threw that backcourt pass. It's hard to judge him on a couple of games but he didn't look like he could beat guys off the dribble if he was forced to and his outside shot looked suspect. He has the tools to be a Bowen replacement I think but it looks like his game needs work.
Duncan looked awesome. Maybe it's just me but his lateral quickness seems much improved. I don't know if this is due to his improved lower body strength or just that I can't remember how fast he was before his plantar fasciitis last year. It still bothers me that he seems to be the only one who can get rebounds in traffic. Rebounding is going to be a problem for us again this year. Can Oberto not jump or does he always prefer to tip defensive boards to another teammate?
- On the previous note, Oberto's defense looked very good and he has a knack for positioning on the offensive glass. He's always cutting and gets a lot of his points from just being in the right place at the right time. It's clear he has synergy with Manu.
- Elson can run like the wind but the rest of his game is mediocre. He seems to have the tools to defend well when he wants to though and has good lateral quickness. The Spurs are definitely trying to push the tempo when he's in the game (and overall for that matter). He seems to have good hands which is a plus. I noticed he could handle drives where our guards shoveled passed to him in traffic.
- Tony looks as good as I remember and his shot is starting to look really good. If he can shoot around 45% from the outside he will truly be unguardable. The only thing that bothers me about his game lately (even from last year) is that he either has tunnel vision on the break or gets greedy sometimes. A lot of times when he's on the break and has a numbers advantage with his teammates, he won't pass the rock for a guaranteed basket to a trailing big man or another wing player- preferring to try and draw contact for an and-1.
I don't like this strategy because 1) It's selfish and 2) It's not smart basketball to give up a virtually uncontested shot for a contested one and gamble that you'll get a 3 point play. Outside of this one complaint though, TP's game looks solid.
-It's a blessing in disguise that Barry finally gets to play some backup point. This is definitely the position he should play whenever possible.
- Vaughn controls the tempo well but needs at least one position where he can hit an outside shot.
- Finley looked great. He doesn't get many touches but he makes the most of the ones he does. His shot still looks pure.
Good comments THJ. Regarding Oberto, I do think that some of his rebounds that are tips are due to a lack of position or height on his jumps, but some of them are simply efficiency. Tips count as rebounds, whether they are on a shot or as a pass and they certainly accomplish the task in a speedy fashion.
Regarding Parker, I agree that since Game 1 last season, Tony has been taking the ball to the basket more often. I think it's a product of his increased aggressiveness and Pop's encouragement to be that way. I think TP took a few extra opportunities to score instead of pass in the games played in France...but I think it's in his charter now. He's gotten so good at finishing shots, some of them in the unbelievable category, that as soon Tony starts showing he's got energy left in the 4th quarters of games, TP will join Tim and Manu in closing out games with the ball in his hands.
"in his charter now"
I think Tony is scoring too much. His newly demonstrated efficiency and "next level" in driving is wonderful, but Tony doesn't win games, the Spurs win games.
I think he needs to balance his personal scoring efforts with more play making, involving more guys in the game, letting more guys touch the ball, which is extremely invigoratring, investing the others guys more fully in every possession.
Thank you. I enjoyed your synopsis as well. Actually I usually enjoy your posts.
Agreed, but I feel tip outs are less of a "sure thing" than a simple rebound. Sometimes the receiving player isn't expecting it or fumbles it. Other times an opposing player can get a hand on it or deflect it.Regarding Oberto, I do think that some of his rebounds that are tips are due to a lack of position or height on his jumps, but some of them are simply efficiency. Tips count as rebounds, whether they are on a shot or as a pass and they certainly accomplish the task in a speedy fashion.
I can see where it was necessary for TP to pick up the scoring load last year but I hope that won't be the case this year. I agree he can finish very well in traffic but why take that risk if you don't have to? I'm a big proponent of rewarding a big man running the floor or getting a teammate involved who has a better look at a sure 2 points.Regarding Parker, I agree that since Game 1 last season, Tony has been taking the ball to the basket more often. I think it's a product of his increased aggressiveness and Pop's encouragement to be that way. I think TP took a few extra opportunities to score instead of pass in the games played in France...but I think it's in his charter now. He's gotten so good at finishing shots, some of them in the unbelievable category, that as soon Tony starts showing he's got energy left in the 4th quarters of games, TP will join Tim and Manu in closing out games with the ball in his hands.
What has impressed me most about the Spurs so far is their at ude towards the games (even preseason/exhibition games).
"Spurs coach Gregg Popovich treated both games as if they counted in the standings, primarily playing his regular rotation.
"While the Spurs are still getting in sync, Popovich looked like he was already in regular-season form. He barked at Parker early in the game for throwing a no-look pass that was batted out of bounds. After an ensuing shot-clock violation, Popovich yelled at his starters to remove their heads from their rears then called a timeout and ripped them some more."
To me, this is a huge improvement in at ude from last year, where they seemed to lack any type of urgency or fire, hence the coasting in back to back's, and Pop's statement that it was "more important to be healthy" at the end of the regular season than to be winning more games. Bullsh*t.
I think he has realized the error in his ways and will push the team. it sounds like they will be pushing themselves this season too. Their dissappointing finish last year was more to do with a lax at ude during the regular season than the lack of "bigs" in the Dallas series. Two seasons ago, they almost always found a way to win close games, despite playing small agains PHX. That ability is not due to talent alone, it's a result of being sharp. And sharpening takes time and a sense of urgency.
I'm sure he'll do that this season. Last season he was asked to score first and foremost by Pop, even to shoot up to 25 times a game. This year hopefully Tim/Manu stay healthy and we can see more balance.
You can see the team has potential.
Its just a question of if it comes together.
This team is probobly the biggest unknown since 99.
Elson to me at least, seems like a combo of Rasho's shooting and good hands, but Nazr's running ability.
Butler? Seems like a combo of Nazr's inside game and toughness.
Bonner seems like a to the second power version of Danny Ferry.
Vaughn could be another vet backup that is actually worth a crap, in that he can defend very well.
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