Nothing... except that sometimes (not an absolute) men get in the way of allowing you to experience GOD fully, without the obfuscate intrusion that is introduced by certain practices or rites that claim to be more significant than they truly are.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 10-17-2006 at 10:05 AM.
just a response to the original poster:
Catholics don't worship Mary or any other saint for that matter. that would be tantamount to idolatry. instead, we pray to her because we believe that she leads us all to Jesus, who is really the very essence of our faith.
Then you should focus on this last part.
Pray to GOD in Jesus' name. Christ died so that we could have direct communion with GOD... Praying to Mary or any other being, undermines that unique and amazing priviledge.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 10-17-2006 at 10:03 AM.
There's nothing wrong with it, if it's what you have faith in. For me, when I began studying the bible (marrying a Baptist will do that for you - although they have their own non-scriptually based traditions), I found that, as Luther began pointing out, much of the central meaning of Christ's message was being lost in the traditions of the church. Catholicism had become a series of rules and beliefs more similar to Judaism, than to what Jesus, again to me, taught.
Christianity was man made only so far as Jesus was man. What is written as Gospel (as opposed to all other parts of the Bible), spoken and taught by the Son of God, I have absolute faith in.
You speak the Apostles (or Nicene) Creed every week, ostensibly, do you not believe it?
I do believe it, I was just saying that a lot of the stuff seems far fetched and it's faith that keeps you coming back for more, regardless of your denomination.
on the other hand, i believe it enhances that priviledge.
Please explain. Why go to a mediator when you can go directly to the source?
Does it matter?
I'm just curious.
The tradition of Intercession is taken from The Wedding Feast at Cana - when people ran out of food & drink they went to Mary, who went to Jesus, who performed a miracle.
It is not unfounded in scripture.
No, this is one of the differences. There are many others.
I always wanted to bring the Pope to Vegas and play roulette with him. I'd put all my money on the number 1 and then when the dealer announces the number and says I lost I'd look to the pope and he would say "no, sorry the number is 1", and since he's infallible, I'd win 38 times my money.
Sweet.
Interesting, but that still didn't answer my question. There are also times when people went directly to Jesus for miracles, why would you choose to go through Mary rather than go directly to Jesus? I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind this.
Link please.
You are proving to be nothing but a bigot with these kinds of statements.
Please elaborate on how is it you think Catholics condone priests abusing little kids.
Do you ask people to pray for you? That is a form of intercession. You're not going directly to the source. You're asking someone else to intercede for you. There is nothing wrong with asking for prayers. St Paul did it all the time. See Romans 15:30 and 1 Timothy 2:1–4 for example.If you had a pressing need and had the opportunity to ask the Rev. Billy Graham or some other highly regarded preacher to pray for you, would you not ask? I would think you would since James 5:16 says "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." We Catholics believe that since Mary and the saints are in heaven that their prayers joined to ours would make them more effective. The offerings of our prayers by the saints and angels can be seen in Revelation 5:8 and 8:3 -4.
I think the difference now is:
1. Revelation is Pre-Messiah
2. Asking a living person to pray for you (a righteous man) is New Testament teaching; nothing in there, that I am aware of, that suggests people already in heaven, other than HIM, are listening.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, I was just curious. I don't know anything about Catholism and I was curious as to why it appears that people are praying to Mary all the time. I don't pray to my friends or pastor or whatever when I ask them to pray on my behalf, so I think I misunderstood what was going on when I heard Catholics saying "Hail Mary full of grace....".
Thank you for the information.
That's the other thing I couldn't wrap my mind around. Assuming that the saints are in heaven, a place without sorrow or pain, and that they can hear your prayers, the majority of the time, people are praying for things that trouble them, cancer, the death of a loved one, etc. Assuming they can hear you, wouldn't that introduce sorrow and pain into heaven or do they lose their sense of compassion and become mere messengers as they ascend to heaven?
Yeah, I could buy Angels as Intercessories, especially pre-Christ, but now, there is no need; That's the whole point, IMO.
You are asking questions that should be answered by a priest, or someone extremely well read on these subjects. My answer to the question would be, I have no idea.
Revelation cannot be Pre-Messiah because the gates of Heaven were closed until the Resurrection. Thats why Lazarus the beggar in Luke 16 went to the Bosom of Abraham and not to Heaven when he died. Also, there would only have been angels present in Heaven.
Notice I bolded the verb participle "praying to".... Again, all prayer should be directed to GOD.... Others can pray for you, or you can pray for others... but you shouldn't pray to others...
In this light, asking that Mary intercede for you is unnecessary considering that you can ask GOD for guidance DIRECTLY. Again, this is the priviledge that was gained through Christ's sacrifice. We shouldn't dismiss the significance of this direct access; it is our spiritual lifeblood.
I disagree...........see, that's the difference between denominations.
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