Legal disclaimer: My comments were meant only as a joke, not an excuse for some lawsuit-mad shyster to assemble a libel case.So now you're disparaging my ability to perform professionally?
I obviously am not qualifed to get into a discussion of the nuances with you, but it sounds like you're suggesting that while Emmitt made his line look better than they were, Barry made his line look worse than they were.Barry Sanders, to me, was always very different than Emmitt Smith, because Sanders loved to dance in the backfield and probe for openings and cut-backs, rather than run the ball downhill and take whatever holes existed. It obviously worked well for Barry, but that style is problematic if the goal is to determine if the offensive line is any good. Barry would dance even when there weren't defensive players in the backfield, though he certainly had occasion to dance because of immediate threats near to him. I've often wondered what the difference would have been had Barry ended up in Dallas and Emmitt in Detroit. My sense is that each would have been great, but that Barry would be considered great despite his line and that Emmitt would have brought 3-4 Lions with him to Honolulu every year.
Eh, I dunno. I think once you get past the casual fans, most fans have at least a little appreciation of this distinction. In DC, for example, people are always complaing about how Ledell Betts, despite being physically similar to Clinton Portis, just doesn't know how to use his blocks and cutbacks the way Portis does.I don't think that's inconsistent with my point. I just think that there is a symbiosis there that fans frequently don't appreciate. If a back is stopped for a loss, many fans immediately complain that the offensive line didn't do it's job; sometimes, though, the offensive line has done exactly what it's supposed to do, but the back hasn't. The back doesn't take the blame, the big guys do.
I'm a fan of offensive line play and frequently when I watch games, I will watch the big guys do their thing without regard to where the ball is going. I got sort of trained to do that. I'll tell you that some of the most effective offensive lines don't get great backwards push in the running game -- they're effective because they create and sustain gaps that backs can exploit. If the backs don't exploit the holes, the offensive line is deemed ineffective. If the backs exploit the holes, the offensive line is considered to be good or great.
I never implied that you could stick just any back behind that line and they would gain yards. I also said that Smith was a HoF behind any line. But I think there are a couple of non HoF contemporaries of Smith (Thurman Thomas, Curtis Martin) who could have played behind that line without a huge dropoff in productivity.Say what you will, but I think the praise that is heaped on the Cowboys' line in the 1990's was largely a credit to Emmitt Smith. Had it been the big boys that were mostly responsible, the Cowboys would have been dominant with anyone in the backfield. But, curiously, Derrick Lassic and Sherman Williams and the other guys who ran behind that line weren't exactly rolling up the sort of yards per carry numbers that Emmitt was. The line was good -- there's no doubt about that -- but Emmitt made them look great and got those guys to Hawaii perennially.
Outside of the argument about Smith, this is along the lines of what I have been trying to say.
Actually, what I have been saying is that a dominant offensive line can make a competent back look very good, and a very good back look like a superstar. And I think this is more likely to happen than a superstar back making a competent offensive line look better than they are.
I don't mean to pay short-shrift to the conversation, Shoog, but are you saying that Thurman Thomas (8th All-Time in total yards from scrimmage and 12th All-Time in rushing yards) and Curtis Martin (4th All-Time in rushing yards; 4,000 yards short of Emmitt in 4 fewer seasons) are not Hall of Famers?
Thomas didn't make it his first year of eligibility. I've heard/seen a few discussions about the media about whether Martin deserves to get in, and if he does whether he deserves first ballot.
If you think stats mean something, ask Art Monk.
BTW, guys, thanks for pissing away my day. I got about 90 minutes to get work done.
Some of these Emmitt/Barry comparisons are funny.
Good....then you know how we feel.Very touchy subject in DC, as you might imagine. (So is Monk. In fact the only HoFers from their Super Bowl teams are Gibbs and John Riggins [Darrell Green will be next or Canton will be burned to the ground]. So Dallas fans STFU about not getting respect from the HoF.
If Darrell Green is not a first ballot shoo-in...I will lead that party to burn it down. I never rooted for him but I have mad respect for all he did and for how long he did it.
Disgruntling, even?
It's no use trying to persuade people that Barry was better than Emmitt, especially people from TX.
So..if someone doesn't believe they way you do...they are wrong?
Personally I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I believe what I believe. I have a right to believe what I want and no one has the right to convince me otherwise.
Just because you think Barry was better doesn't mean its true, just like because I think Emmitt was better doesn't make it true.
Where did I say it was wrong?
One played for a consistently good team that won les, the other played on a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde team. It makes a difference, and that's about as much as we'd agree on, if that.
You act as though people from Texas are incapable of objective thought.It's no use trying to persuade people that Barry was better than Emmitt, especially people from TX.
It does make a difference but not necessarily enough of one to determine a HOF worthy career.
Let me ask this....do you think the reason Emmitt Smith may make the hall of fame is because of the team he is on?
For the record, I never said Barry was better than Emmitt or vice-versa. I compared their styles and suggested that the styles might have had something to do with the public perceptions of the lines that played in front of them. But, I'm pretty sure that I also said that I thought if they had traded places, they each would have had stellar careers. I'm not sure how that's a slight on Barry.
Curiously, just as DLF perceives that Cowboys fans don't think objectively about the comparison, favoring Emmitt, it sure seems like Lions fans suffer the same sort of non-objectivity in Barry's favor. Just an observation.
George W. Bush troll in 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .
This is what I love about debating sports, every one admits in the end that they could be wrong, or they know how the other feels, or they see the others point of view.
Well, everyone except Obstructed View, that guys an idiot.
oh crap...did I leave that door open?George W. Bush troll in 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .
I should know better on these here internets!
Good point...and in no way by choosing Emmitt over Barry means I think Barry sucks. IMO, he is the best pure runner ever.This is what I love about debating sports, every one admits in the end that they could be wrong, or they know how the other feels, or they see the others point of view.
Well, everyone except Obstructed View, that guys an idiot.
I am from Texas, but obviously not a Cowboys fan.
I'm guessing that very few non-Cowboy fans would be of the opinion that Emmitt was better than Barry.
However, it's somewhat amusing that in order to make that argument they sort of have to throw the Cowboys' offensive line under the bus.
So I guess it hasn't been a wasted day after all.
Don't you have a surgery to get to?
What, did you think that coming on this site would have made your day productive in any way, shape or form?
, I pretty much wasted this whole week on this thing.
I said that because most people from TX weren't able to watch BS on a weekly basis like they could ES.
Remember long ago when this thread was about Tiki Barber?
Remember long ago when this thread was about Tiki Barber?
Who?
Fair enough.I said that because most people from TX weren't able to watch BS on a weekly basis like they could ES.
Though couldn't that work both ways?
The Cowboys were always on nationally during that time. The Lions? Not so much.
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