Kramer goes crazy on stage

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe Kramer started it by calling them a name sometime the previous week when they were fighting over a parking space. Can't say until we know the whole truth.

[timvp]

You're right, because we don't share the same opinion, I obviously am wrong.

I love your opinion timvp, but shove it up your if you're not going to be open to .

Are you going to eye-for-an-eye me now?

[dougp]

What should we do with the fork?

Stick it in him, he's obviously done.

(can't find a picture from the episode where he cooks himself with butter)

[dougp]

Are you going to eye-for-an-eye me now?

Yes, when's the next GTG? I'll have to make a trip to SA

And you know I'm f'in around, right? I'm trying to point out something that I've heard, and that I don't completely disagree with your stance - he really shouldn't have done what he did because he is a professional, but happens.

[resistanze]

You're right, because we don't share the same opinion, I obviously am wrong.

I love your opinion timvp, but shove it up your if you're not going to be open to .

It's not a matter of accepting someone else's opinion, your rationalization just reeks of closet racism.

[ChumpDumper]

Ever heard of Darwin? While unfortunate, and I do not condone violence ... there's something to be said about natural selection.

So you do condone it. Fine. Don't play it both ways.

Well, there's not a lot of people who are posting in this thread in regards to this issue that might read one of the other websites I frequent.

Especially if you don't link them.

At this point, all of us arguing anymore would be stupid ... you will not change my view on this particular possible situation, and I will obviously not change yours.

No, but I do know a whole lot more about alot of posters here than I did before. That's enough for me.

People have singled out those of us who condone it in a particular situation. , I think hecklers are rude to begin with and are subject to whatever a comedian throws back at them ... you started it, and if a comedian does want to do what "Kramer" did, that's their choice.

If they want a career and want to live (according to you), they might want to think about it. It's nice that you just lowered the threshold for when to use that language.

And don't get the fact that I condone his response in a particular situation as intelligent ... he should have handled it differently, but we shouldn't be lynching his reputation until we see a full story on what had happened, which many people here want to do it seems.

you say he should have handled it differently but say he was justified to handle it in a way you declare was wrong before knowing the entire story yourself. Ok.

[timvp]

Yes, when's the next GTG? I'll have to make a trip to SA

And you know I'm f'in around, right? I'm trying to point out something that I've heard, and that I don't completely disagree with your stance - he really shouldn't have done what he did because he is a professional, but happens.

If he wasn't on stage and someone hurled racial insults at him and retaliated with racial insults, then I don't think it'd be an issue. It would've just been stooping to a low level.

But because he was on stage, he crossed the line no matter what the hecklers were saying.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude went on ing Letterman to apologize and you guys are saying he did nothing wrong. He obviously knows he did something wrong. Its not much a career to kill anyhow.

[dougp]

It's not a matter of accepting someone else's opinion, your rationalization just reeks of closet racism.

Yes, I'm racist ... oh wait, eh f' it I'm not gonna try and rationalize with you. I've never hid the fact I have people in my family who are racist (the older ones, mind you from a few generations ago) but I'm not, and never will be. I even hate that fact and correct my friends when they jokingly use a term because the sad part is in society one white person can't jokingly refer to another white person as a n-er (they called me this because I go by enigma in games) with out getting dirty looks. Until that happens, we do have to deal with what we say and the context in which we use it. I don't look at peoples skins, and it should be pretty damn evident by the people I've date and my friends (none of which you can see.)

But as a few of my "minority" friends have said, I'm pretty "naive" when it come erradicating racism. I absolutely detest the crap when it comes to thinking that one race is better than another, etc. Say what you want to me, but call me a racist if you want if you think I have lingering feelings of hate towards someone who's not white or of a race I like ... I dislike particular people, and would NEVER use racial slurs towards someone unless I was provoked in a very bad manner and even then I probably wouldn't.

Or I can play the card of, takes a racist to know a racist. But I don't feel like being 12 today, I'm aiming for a little bit more mature.

[timvp]

It's not a matter of accepting someone else's opinion, your rationalization just reeks of closet racism.

Nah, I wouldn't call his view racist. I would call it not well thought out.

I can see where he's coming from if it was two guys on the street arguing. But on stage like that, you have to act in a more professional manner.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, I'm racist ... oh wait, eh f' it I'm not gonna try and rationalize with you. I've never hid the fact I have people in my family who are racist (the older ones, mind you from a few generations ago) but I'm not, and never will be. I even hate that fact and correct my friends when they jokingly use a term because the sad part is in society one white person can't jokingly refer to another white person as a n-er (they called me this because I go by enigma in games) with out getting dirty looks. Until that happens, we do have to deal with what we say and the context in which we use it. I don't look at peoples skins, and it should be pretty damn evident by the people I've date and my friends (none of which you can see.)

But as a few of my "minority" friends have said, I'm pretty "naive" when it come erradicating racism. I absolutely detest the crap when it comes to thinking that one race is better than another, etc. Say what you want to me, but call me a racist if you want if you think I have lingering feelings of hate towards someone who's not white or of a race I like ... I dislike particular people, and would NEVER use racial slurs towards someone unless I was provoked in a very bad manner and even then I probably wouldn't.

Or I can play the card of, takes a racist to know a racist. But I don't feel like being 12 today, I'm aiming for a little bit more mature.

For the record, I don't think you're racist.

[dougp]

So you do condone it. Fine. Don't play it both ways.Especially if you don't link them.No, but I do know a whole lot more about alot of posters here than I did before. That's enough for me.[quote[People have singled out those of us who condone it in a particular situation. , I think hecklers are rude to begin with and are subject to whatever a comedian throws back at them ... you started it, and if a comedian does want to do what "Kramer" did, that's their choice.

If they want a career and want to live (according to you), they might want to think about it. It's nice that you just lowered the threshold for when to use that language. you say he should have handled it differently but say he was justified to handle it in a way you declare was wrong before knowing the entire story yourself. Ok.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about a particular situation that was a possibility ... never said it's what happened. Why don't you read my original post and quit trying to pick a in fight.

None of your posts have made any in sense ... always think about what you say, PERIOD as it will save you a lot of face. Michael Richards should have thought about what he said, and so should the hecklers.

[ChumpDumper]

I was talking about a particular situation that was a possibility ... never said it's what happened. Why don't you read my original post and quit trying to pick a in fight.

Were I black, would you be justified in using racial slurs since you are angry right now?

None of your posts have made any in sense ... always think about what you say, PERIOD as it will save you a lot of face. Michael Richards should have thought about what he said, and so should the hecklers.

It doesn't seem that it's my face that needs saving.

[dougp]

Nah, I wouldn't call his view racist. I would call it not well thought out.

I can see where he's coming from if it was two guys on the street arguing. But on stage like that, you have to act in a more professional manner.

Everyone has a breakdown at some point - he's washed up, and hasn't really come off the success of Seinfeld very well. Man just needs some help, but I doubt he'll get much of a second chance since the apology sucked terribly.

[dougp]

Were I black, would you be justified in using racial slurs since you are angry right now?

Have you called me a "cracker" or "gringo?" No ... therefor it is in no way justifiable for me to use racial terms with you. And not that I would anyway if you re-read my post above.

It doesn't seem that it's my face that needs saving.

That comment was in general actually, not about you ... it was about the whole situation. And I don't need to save face for myself.

brb, I need to go make my bid for a spot on Letterman tonight, need to apologize to Chump

[ChumpDumper]

So if someone called you a cracker or a gringo, you would feel completely justified in using racial epithets on them if you chose to do so?

[dougp]

So if someone called you a cracker or a gringo, you would feel completely justified in using racial epithets on them if you chose to do so?

Yup - if I was the type of person to use those comments on a person, I would be justified in my mind. Think of it in terms of self defense. What justifies someone to come up and start harassing me? If I didn't provoke it, nothing justifies it. But if they're provoking me, they need to be prepared for what I might do in return ... if they want to throw racial slurs at me, they need to be prepared for it in return. You give and you take.

Just like if someone comes up and hits me, it'll be on and I'll make sure they regret every last minute of their decision in their mind to hit me.

[ChumpDumper]

I gotta tell you, it's really tough for me to get riled up over these terms. "Cracker" was a term coined by whites to describe other whites. "Gringo" is derived the Spanish word for Greek and basically means I can't speak Spanish well, which is true. It's just not as big a deal as the other terms, not as historically significant, and not as completely loaded as epithets said by a "majority" member.

[Jimcs50]

It is ok for African American comedians to call white racial epithets and steriotype them, but when white comics do it, it is not ok. This is the way it goes nowadays on tv and in movies. I find that strange.

I am not justifying Richards, but I think hecklers should be thrown out of shows. People pay good money to see shows and if someone disrupts the show, it is wrong, and they deserve to get crap from the comic and/or get thrown out.

[dougp]

I gotta tell you, it's really tough for me to get riled up over these terms. "Cracker" was a term coined by whites to describe other whites. "Gringo" is derived the Spanish word for Greek and basically means I can't speak Spanish well, which is true. It's just not as big a deal as the other terms, not as historically significant, and not as completely loaded as epithets said by a "majority" member.

You're right about their origins, and that in that sense they're not as big of a deal. Most people say them though with the intention of them being a negative racial term ... I've never once been referred to as a "cracker" in a positive light, not that there is one.

[ShoogarBear]

It is ok for African American comedians to call white racial epithets and steriotype them, but when white comics do it, it is not ok. This is the way it goes nowadays on tv and in movies. I find that strange.

I am not justifying Richards, but I think hecklers should be thrown out of shows. People pay good money to see shows and if someone disrupts the show, it is wrong, and they deserve to get crap from the comic and/or get thrown out.

1. How does your first paragraph have anything to do with what Richards did?

2. African American comedians who use racial epithets use them a zillion times more on other African Americans than anyone else.

3. White comedians have always been used racial epithets when they want to in the context of their actual comedy act.

4. There isn't a comic in America who hasn't been heckled. I guarantee you Richards has been heckled before. Apparenly just not by a black person.

5. The ing state of Virginia just almost re-elected a Senator who uses racial epithets and tried to justify it. I find that strange, and much more disturbing and revealing than anything involving an alleged comedian.

[MannyIsGod]

Richards should just have said he had never heard the word ###### before. He could have gone with the Allen defense.

[Pistons < Spurs]

if they want to throw racial slurs at me, they need to be prepared for it in return. You give and you take.

I see. So two wrongs do make a right!

There is NO PLACE for ANY racial slurs. You can't find anything else to use against someone except their race? I've been called cracka, saltine, honky, whitebread many a time. My retort wasn't to go dropping N bombs on them.

IMO the only reason someone would use racial names as insults is because they are racist. I can't find any other excuse.

No one goes off like Kramer did if they're not a flat out racist. But if you listen to his apology to all the "Afro Americans" he plainly says he's "not a racist".....pfft

[dougp]

I see. So two wrongs do make a right!

There is NO PLACE for ANY racial slurs. You can't find anything else to use against someone except their race? I've been called cracka, saltine, honky, whitebread many a time. My retort wasn't to go dropping N bombs on them.

IMO the only reason someone would use racial names as insults is because they are racist. I can't find any other excuse.

No one goes off like Kramer did if they're not a flat out racist. But if you listen to his apology to all the "Afro Americans" he plainly says he's "not a racist".....pfft

What do you suggest a person do, walk away, ignoring the person? Real life doesn't always work like that, hate to break it to you.

[ChumpDumper]

You're right about their origins, and that in that sense they're not as big of a deal. Most people say them though with the intention of them being a negative racial term ... I've never once been referred to as a "cracker" in a positive light, not that there is one.

Sure, it just pales in comparison to the terms used for minorities. I've accepted that there are things I will never truly know about racism because I simply haven't been on the short end of that equation. I've never been called the N word or S word or G word but I know that those words coming out of my mouth have a whole different set of connotations because I belong to that race that historically subjugated, exploited and discriminated against the races those words have been used to put down and keep down. It's nothing I did or am doing; it's just the way it is. Because of that, I simply can't justify using those words in any situation.

In my mind, your retaliating with those words after being called a cracker is akin to launching a nuclear missle after getting hit with a spitball.