Question for Christians on this board

[Guru of Nothing]

The God of the Christian Bible.

God loves most those who know.

[ploto]

I understand where the person is coming from, though, who sees all that judgmental behavior. Many Christians spend their time with all the don'ts-- while I focus on the do's. I think that Jesus was much more interested in the good things that we are supposed to do.

[Phenomanul]

God must be compatible with the logical system that he/she instilled.

For instance, if God if perfect, then God cannot make a square circle because to do so would be to lie to manking, which is a self-serving weakness.

Under the same reasoning, God could not go against his/her own commandments.

But aren't you making the assumption that God's and mans' logic need be the same?

God can be perfectly right without making sense to you or me.

Then, even assuming you are right, which is not a given, God would be deceiving us in a manner contrary to the nature supposed of God if we were to be lead to believe that a logical system was universal, when God could break from its use on a whim.

It may seem paradoxical to you because again you are bound to a logic construct that's infinitely inferior to GOD's.

It's like saying that GOD can't break the natural laws that He Himself set forth when creating our universe... But you know what? He can if He so pleases, He is Supernatural! - not bound to anything; not bound by time, not bound by dimensions or physical laws; He is only bound by the very attributes which define His essence... Holiness, Justice, Grace, Love, Omniscience, Omnipotence, etc...

And I disagree with the notion that GOD would choose to do things 'on a whim'. GOD does everything with a purpose.... again, His very perfection requires that to hold true. Why? Because doing things 'on a whim' undermines the existence of a greater plan; the lack of a plan would suggest a lack of order, and a lack of order (i.e. chaos) completely opposes the structure that is required for perfection.

The constraints and rules placed on creation do not apply to the Creator.

Good dialogue...

[Phenomanul]

Good night. I have to wake up earlier than usual tomorrow...

[sabar]

God has to operate in a different sense of logic in any religious system or he could otherwise not exist under the systems own rules. If we know all that God knows, nothing would prevent us from being God himself except for the lack of knowledge which would eventually be revealed through either our own determination or random chance. I don't think you can argue this much.

However, this also seriously weakens the entire notion of God as it trys to paint the universe as something more surreal and turns people away. The perfect system would be one where God must exist in our world and under the same laws we must exist under, for it makes God human, living, and believable.

Of course it's called FAITH for a reason.

Onto the mind and body.

The greatest proof for any concept of a soul is the fact that the brain is incredibly complex and has not yet been explained. We can replace hearts, lungs, and kidneys. We replace bone with steel alloys and soon we will be looking at artificial blood. But replacing our mind, our brain is totally incomprehensible. The sheer mechanics of our mind are totally unknown to science in this day and age. No one knows how memory works. How it is stored, retrieved, where it goes. We know the area of the brain in which damage results in memory loss, but that is it.

This here is an example of the best proof of a soul, the fact that no existing physical structure and command system has been found for the human mind. We know how cells work, how DNA scribes protein, how cells communicate, but we still don't know the exact mechanic behind hearing, sight, taste, memory, or anything truely having to due with the mind. Some people say they can "feel" their soul being seperate from the body, most people agree this to be our mind, our thinking.

But if a soul truely exists, doesn't there have to be some interface with which the physical world and the mind communicate? Visual data and memory are clearly affected if we put a bullet through the brain or an ice pick through the frontal lobe. This is undeniably physical, but the base structure is still... unknown.

I have my own opinions but I won't pollute the discussion with them, I'd rather add various things. I play the devil's advocate for the sake of argument.

[jochhejaam]

I understand where the person is coming from, though, who sees all that judgmental behavior. Many Christians spend their time with all the don'ts-- while I focus on the do's. I think that Jesus was much more interested in the good things that we are supposed to do.

Part of which is to refrain from doing the "don'ts". There's at least equal emphasis on both.

God sent Christ to His creation because we were steeped in doing the "don'ts".

V. I (Jesus) came into this World to call the unrighteousness to repentance, not the righteous. That would imply that His purpose and focus is on those that "do the don'ts".


With that being said, overly judgemental Christians/people, pharisaical types, do far more harm than good.

[td4mvp21]

Which is why we and other churches take them in and help them break the 'shackles' that have bound them to their vices. I see.... While that may be true for others [being judgemental Christians]... It certainly wouldn't apply to those who have taken JESUS"s ministry to heart - the true Christian calling. But we ought not take glory for this -- that belongs solely to GOD. Again, calling a sin by its name is not tantamount to passing judgment on those who practice it. Nor is having an aversion to the sin tantamount to a rejection of the 'sinner'.


Food for thought - since you consider "christians to be the most judgemental people ever" The world's most notorious dictators and tyrants... Self-proclaimed judges... the likes of Nero, Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin.... Yeah... some 'christians' they turned out to be. Oh wait!...... That's right - most of these cruel tyrants ruled with a wanton disregard for life because they lacked the conviction that they would be held accountable to a higher authority. They took it upon themselves to do as they pleased.

That has nothing to do with the fact that I think Christians are the most judgmental people ever. I don't know how many of those dictators proclaimed to be a Christian (probably few, if any), so what does that have to do with anything? Christians are extrememly judgmental, it's almost ridiculous. Christians seem to think that because they have Christ they can sit on a throne and tell people how to live. That's one of the many reasons why I quit going to church.

[Phil Hellmuth]

Christians seem to think that because they have Christ they can sit on a throne and tell people how to live. That's one of the many reasons why I quit going to church.

I am not a devout Christian, but that is pretty weak in my opinion about not going to church anymore b/c of how christians are. CHurch is about God. It is not about the free donuts and the soccer moms with the screaming kids in the back. Only one who matters is God. Don't let people's shared beliefs and traits take away your devotion and dedication to God.

i could be getting the whole situation wrong because maybe you do go to a church that has annoying people, but you get my drift.

[Phenomanul]

That has nothing to do with the fact that I think Christians are the most judgmental people ever. I don't know how many of those dictators proclaimed to be a Christian (probably few, if any), so what does that have to do with anything? Christians are extrememly judgmental, it's almost ridiculous. Christians seem to think that because they have Christ they can sit on a throne and tell people how to live. That's one of the many reasons why I quit going to church.

That's fine... it is simply your opinion... but don't let that experience cause you to make such a general and condemning comment of all Christians.

My opinion.... those people you hung around with at church may not have been true Christians (though only GOD is capable of knowing)... that, or someone forgot to address and stress the importance of not judging one's neighbor.

BTW none of the above tyrants were Christians... and that fact is significant: it shows what can happen when GOD's authority is completely taken out of the picture.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's not like the concept is beyond comprehension.... I thought you were smarter than that. Judgement is cast when one man condemns another for their actions be it literal or in their mind. I have not the right, nor the authority to do either. Am I capable of judging others? Sure, it is an inescapable human attribute that can sometimes occur without much effort. Many times much like an involuntary response. I try not to dwell on such matters, for I've never claimed to be perfect.

Well i was taking judge to mean "that gay man is wrong, gayness is wrong" whereby a person is judging something [gayness] to be wrong. And this does in fact happen, on tv, in real life, everywhere.
So, you are right in the sense taht christians do not send gays directly to , but you are wrong in thinking that christians do not flat out think gays and gayness is wrong. Cuz they do. It's written all over history, their faces, their actions.

Ever heard of the biblical phrase "let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."? Or "don't worry about the speck in your brother's eye when you have a log sticking out of yours"

Yes, I have, and have you ever MET a christian hypocrite? I happened to go to private schools most of my life like The One and Only did, and I met plenty and plenty and PLENTY of these along the way. It is in this sense that I said you were wrong. Most people I have met in my life are from a Christian home, and most Christians I have met do not follow scriptures like they think they do.

Well.... that's exactly the topic they refer to... We should avoid casting judgement. So while we have been given the knowledge and spiritual discernment of knowing what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'... i.e. we can identify one from the other.... calling something by its name is not tantamount to passing judgment on it. It's not a matter of semantics. The concept is crystal clear...

I get what you really meant now, and you are right, but still, in your original post you seemed to imply Christians don't treat gays any differently or look down on them, or try to impose their views on them, when they do all the time. it is just 'the sin' they look down on....i dont think thats entirely true