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I was talking to you too. Not just aaron.
Actually I wasn't talking to either of you particularly, just in general, it's time for Spurs fans to band together and stop bickering.
I know but IF i ignore him hopefully the bickering will stop
Yeah people need to get over that too. If it wasn't for Manu, it wouldn't even have been close. He knows he made a mistake. He's done so much for the team everyone should be way past it.
I was talking to you too. Not just aaron.
Actually I wasn't talking to either of you particularly, just in general, it's time for Spurs fans to band together and stop bickering.
I know but IF i ignore him hopefully the bickering will stop
Stampler, that's whack. The Spurs won 60 games in 2002-03. They went 19-13 through December and then ran off a 41-9 string to finish the season. That was a lonnnnnnng peak.
you do know that tp is the only guard besides nash to shot over 50% and average over 5 assist a game
If Robinson was an invalid, what do you call the centers the Spurs have had since then?
I know I know. It makes you appreciate Robinson more. The thing is for 90% of his career, he was THE guy, like how Tim is THE guy now, so you don't think of him as this defensive stopper/rebounder kind of guy.
If Tim and David played their whole careers together, that'd be something.
?
Y'all set yourselves up for a difficult time
It was just a weird year. The team was in the transition from all Timmy all the time to this largely motion based offense with Tony and Manu now. I'm very appreciative of that championship, like I am all of them, I just think that team got a little lucky where as some others ('04, '06, '95) were unlucky.
Tony has scored >27 points 12 times in his playoff lifetime. Manu has scored >27 points 8 times in his playoff lifetime. Of Parker's 12, 8 of them came on the road. Of Manu's 8, 2 of them came on the road.
Parker has had huge playoff games on the road in must win games. The problem is most Spurs fans just remember how the final game of the Finals ended.
In 2003, Manu sucked in the playoffs outside of the Lakers series, but he's remembered as a superstar because he stole the ball from Richard Jefferson. Speedy Claxton is a cult hero, even though he had like three good games as a Spur (one being, of course, game 6 of the 2003 finals).
Parker's heroics usually have come on the road and earlier in series. Those games aren't remembered.
Someone Got Owned!
Man Ferris Bueller. Tony Parker is my hero now.
Bueller was your hero?
Here's to hoping Manu and Tony both have the playoffs of their lives this year
I like games like Utah where all three guys play well. That might have been my favorite game of the year.*
* Except the Atlanta and Orlando and Portland games
In those 12 games, the Spurs are 11-1. In the 13 playoff games lifetime that Parker has had >7 assists, the Spurs are 10-3. There's a reason why Pop wants Parker to score. If he has his own offense rolling, it's almost impossible to beat the Spurs.
Manu and Tim will get theirs in the halfcourt sets. If Parker can breakdown the opposing defense for 30, Spurs win 95% of the time.
Not bad for a guy who has never had a big playoff game.
Yeah that Parker is a playoff choker no question.
timvp you should get kori to write an article on that
amazing how aaron has no answer for that.
Im sure itll be
"I DONT HATE PARKER YOU GUYS PICK ON ME FOR NO REASON WAHHHHHH:
In those 12 games, the Spurs are 11-1. In the 13 playoff games lifetime that Parker has had >7 assists, the Spurs are 10-3. There's a reason why Pop wants Parker to score. If he has his own offense rolling, it's almost impossible to beat the Spurs.
Manu and Tim will get theirs in the halfcourt sets. If Parker can breakdown the opposing defense for 30, Spurs win 95% of the time.
Not bad for a guy who has never had a big playoff game.
HOPEFULLY NIKOS will take notice
where is ice?
Who is Playing Harder in the Playoffs?
March 13, 2007 5:29 PM
Yesterday I put out a call for some way to measure players who are coasting for at least some of the regular season:
Here's one I've never seen but would love to see: who are the all-time regular season coasters? The guys who just don't play hard for much of the season, saving their knees, and their effort, for the late season and playoffs?
TrueHoop reader and veteran stat junkie Michael Goodman responded with a spreadsheet of stuff that looks really cool, but is hard for my Bachelor of the Arts mind. So I'll let him explain:
PO/RS is Playoff/Regular Season productivity ratio. Both are adjusted for team/opponent pace, year by year. A year with 400 playoff minutes counts 4x as much as a year with 100.
'Net' is calculated by player's (productivity*1.05)*(min/36)*(po/rs) The average po/rs is about .945, so the 1.05 cancels that: Anyone over .945 has a positive net. You may see the player's stats go down -- along with most others' -- but relative to the opponent, his team gains.
Here are the top twenty from his list:
0.945 Net PO/RS POMin Min/36
Robert Horry 555 1.07 6740 187
Tim Duncan 489 1.02 4910 136
Baron Davis 283 1.15 1502 42
Dwyane Wade 240 1.05 2133 59
Manu Ginobili 232
1.05 2253 63
Caron Butler 205 1.24 957 27
Tim Thomas 199 1.12 1705 47
Tayshaun Prince 196 1.03 3165 88
Derek Fisher 182 1.04 3136 87
Paul Pierce 158 1.04 1615 45
Ray Allen 132 1.04 1563 43
Antonio Daniels 126 1.07 1567 44
Richard Hamilton 118 .99 3268 91
Allen Iverson 118 .98 2779 77
Vince Carter 101 1.02 1308 36
James Posey 93 1.10 920 26
Antonio McDyess 91 1.04 1055 29
Kirk Hinrich 90 1.16 520 14
Eric Snow 83 1.00 2212 61
Kenyon Martin 82 .99 2112 59
No one can argue with Robert Horry topping this list. His teammate publicly accused him of as much a couple of years ago. (The only irony there is that the teammate making the accusation is second on this list.)
Shaquille O'Neal, whom I trotted out as the poster boy of taking some time off during the season, comes in 38th. I imagine that's because much of the time when he has been apparently coasting was time when he was on the injured list, and those games, I assume, did not count towards his productivity tally.
In fact, it occurs to me that playing through injuries in the regular season is a great way to get yourself on this list. A lot of the guys here have played at half-speed for stretches of their career. If they had been real coasters, they would have worn street clothes.
I wonder if anyone has a way to further refine this list to get to who it is that is really taking the most time off. (Even Mike himself admits that is not this list: "No," he writes, "I can't call out the 'coasters'. But Tim Thomas is a good start.") There is a difference that I'd like to get at, between Tim Duncan hobbling through almost all of last season on one leg, and whatever it is that Tim Thomas has been doing all these years.
Wow. I just checked out the bottom of the list. These would be people who have been frighteningly productive in the regular season compared to the playoffs. Some of the NBA's bigger playoff disappointments are here, as are several MVP candidates, and some championship winners. The last twenty are:
Jason Kidd, Predrag Stojakovic, Lindsey Hunter, Darrell Armstrong, Radoslav Nesterovic, Brad Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Sam Cassell, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen, Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Kobe Bryant, Tony Parker, Shawn Marion, Dale Davis, Jermaine O'Neal, Clifford Robinson, and (bringing up the rear) Gary Payton.
Notice how San Antonio Spurs are all over the top and the bottom of this list? (Theory: these are the guys who pick up the slack when Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili aren't 100%.)
From TrueHoop. Don't shoot the messanger.
Didn't I tell you to knock it off?
You aren't bringing anything to the conversation except instigation. STOP!
Um ... I don't think anyone would be surprised that it's Tony who carries the team during the regular season. Duncan doesn't try the first three months of the season and Manu averages like 25 minutes per game.
Plus I don't think there is shame in being next to Kobe. Since when does Kobe not come up big in the playoffs?
Yeah I read that a few days ago. I didn't really pay attention to the whole stats of it because Bowen's productivity (3pt shooting % etc) normally goes up in the playoffs IIRC, so I didn't get why he was near the bottom. Anyway, everyone knows that Tim is a playoff beast and Manu has been in recent years too.
It's just that traditionally Tony's numbers have dipped a bit in the playoffs as Manu and Tim's have gone up.
Look, the past doesn't matter. We're going to need all of them to play as well as possible this May and June. This LA-Phx-Dal-Det/Mia gauntlet would be an unprecedented accomplishment for the Spurs.
It was a terrific reformation of a team that had been so very unathletic in the backcourt for several years. The Mavericks got off to a 14-0 start and the Spurs ran them down and won home court. They were extremely clutch and their leaders Tim Duncan (League MVP and Finals MVP) and Coach Popovich (Coach of the Year) figured out how they were to play with their new athleticism.
The Nets were the lucky ones. They finished 2nd in a very weak Eastern Conference at 49-33. Spurs were young and made TOs but they were exciting and very unweird.
I still feel bad to this day for the '95 team. They had size, scoring, defense, depth, everything. In retrospect, a better coach would've been nice.
Except that Parkers has scored more points per game in the playoffs than the regular season in each year of his career. And his career scoring and assists average in the playoffs are higher than Manu's.
Again, I'm not saying that Parker is better than Manu. In fact, per minute there's no contest that Manu is the better player. But to say that Parker has never had a big game in his playoff career is omitting a litany of good performances.
Eight road games by the age of 24 where you score >27 points in the playoffs in which your team goes 7-1 including multiple must win games doesn't happen to a guy who never shows up in the playoffs. Parker is a phenom in his own right, he just has two of the clutchest players of all-time next to him so he's not a go-to guy in memorable moments.
Exactly.
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