How good is the Cavs Defense?

[Marcus Bryant]

Now you're getting it. The Nets are average to slightly-above-average offensively; no great shakes, but better than some folks on this board are making out.

rofl. When you make up rankings maybe the are.

[Marcus Bryant]

See, now you are just making up. Denver isn't some kind of great team, let's clear that up right now. You are trying to inflate your opponents in a big way. Denver as a team averaged 105pts scored and 103pts allowed, they scored alot of points but they also gave up a ton of points as well. Utah scored 101pts per game and allowed 99pts per game. Phoenix had a more impressive margin of victory, averaging 110pts per game and allowing 102 points per game.

So, we can see that Denver and Utah both are not that great. Phoenix had a larger margin of victory than the other two opponents SA has faced this postseason, however in total, none of the Spurs' three opponents know how to play defense worth .

The odd thing is, the Cavs were a combined 1-5 against the Nuggets, Suns, and Jazz this season.

Utah was 11th in the league in opponents' FG%, the Suns 14th and the Nuggets 15th.

Spurs? 4th.

[Marcus Bryant]

Help for Cav Fan

[Marcus Bryant]

first you are talking about offensive production now youre putting otu a red herring with point differential. But for s and giggles lets look at opponent point differential.

Denver 9th
Utah 8th
Phoenix 2nd

Washington 15th
New Jersey 16th
Detroit 5th

Facto in that Washinton was gutted by injuries and it becomes more telling.

Spurs 1st
Cavs 7th

I think if we were to show the point differential by conference it would show further how much of a lopsided statistical advantage the Spurs have.

Right. So the Cavs' vaunted defense was tested by poor offenses in their run to the Finals while the Spurs had to face 3 of the top 7 (including 2 of the top 3) offenses in the league during theirs.

The funny thing is, the Spurs have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA and probably the most efficient defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

The odd thing is, the Cavs were a combined 1-5 against the Nuggets, Suns, and Jazz this season.

Utah was 11th in the league in opponents' FG%, the Suns 14th and the Nuggets 15th.

Spurs? 4th.

So when the Cavs' D faces great offenses it can't hold them back and it struggles to score against average to slightly better than average defenses.

Spurs in 5.

[BWJACKETS]

first you are talking about offensive production now youre putting otu a red herring with point differential. But for s and giggles lets look at opponent point differential.

Denver 9th
Utah 8th
Phoenix 2nd

Washington 15th
New Jersey 16th
Detroit 5th

Facto in that Washinton was gutted by injuries and it becomes more telling.

Spurs 1st
Cavs 7th

I think if we were to show the point differential by conference it would show further how much of a lopsided statistical advantage the Spurs have.

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right. So the Cavs' vaunted defense was tested by poor offenses in their run to the Finals while the Spurs had to face 3 of the top 7 (including 2 of the top 3) offenses in the league during theirs.

The funny thing is, the Spurs have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA and probably the most efficient defense.

its point differential so its more of an overall view but yeah you get the point.

The only team that ranked below NJ and Wash in point differential in the playoffs was Miami. Essentially the Cavs beat 2 of the 3 worst teams in the playoffs to get to the finals

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

Might that have something to do with the fact that those teams also had 3 of the top 7 most efficient offenses in the NBA?

Cavs were 1-5 against those teams. Telling.

[JoeTait75]

rofl. When you make up rankings maybe the are.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statis...e=3&league=nba

(shrug) Ain't on me if ESPN has its numbers wrong.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statis...e=3&league=nba

(shrug) Ain't on me if ESPN has its numbers wrong.

Sure it is. Find a better source, like, um, the league.

[JoeTait75]

Sure it is. Find a better source, like, um, the league.

Fair enough. Could you explain how a middle-of-the-pack finish in ppg and pg pct- without the services of a healthy Richard Jefferson- makes a team "abysmal"?

[mardigan]

All I have to say is that the Wizards scored over 90 points in 3 out of 4 games.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fair enough. Could you explain how a middle-of-the-pack finish in ppg and pg pct- without the services of a healthy Richard Jefferson- makes a team "abysmal"?

When compared to the Spurs, Jazz, Suns, & Nuggets, it certainly was so.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

Im not sure what you are trying to get at. You would hve to look at points per 100 possesions to make that determination. The fact is that Denver and Phoenix both like to fast break every chancve they get so any game they are in will have more overall possesions and thus more total points scored.

in fact Phoenix is a very surprisingly good defensive team. Now the way they were using kurt thomas was a matchup thing with Duncan but there traps on the pickand roll were the best I have seen all year. That is something Sideshow, Gooden and Lurch cannot pull off. In short Parker is going to cause problems on it all series long. Raja Bell is a top 5 to 10 perimeter defender in the NBA.

Denver at least has a top tier shotblocker when their perimeter guys get beat which Cleveland simply doesnt have. But lets get real here they were our first round opponent. There team is predicated on offense and with AI and Carmelo they are a superb offensive team. They would have beat both of your first 2 opponents in a 7 game series.

[mardigan]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

Que?

[Marcus Bryant]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

The Cavs didn't beat the Suns this season. Crawl back in your hole.

[FromWayDowntown]

because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

seeing that you dont even know who we played you discredit yourself. and with a superstar like Duncan you arent going to be able to take any plays off.

im sorry but the fact that the only hat you have to hang on is your superstar is where you fall short. we have one too and a team to go along with him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Im not sure what you are trying to get at. You would hve to look at points per 100 possesions to make that determination. The fact is that Denver and Phoenix both like to fast break every chancve they get so any game they are in will have more overall possesions and thus more total points scored.

in fact Phoenix is a very surprisingly good defensive team. Now the way they were using kurt thomas was a matchup thing with Duncan but there traps on the pickand roll were the best I have seen all year. That is something Sideshow, Gooden and Lurch cannot pull off. In short Parker is going to cause problems on it all series long. Raja Bell is a top 5 to 10 perimeter defender in the NBA.

Denver at least has a top tier shotblocker when their perimeter guys get beat which Cleveland simply doesnt have. But lets get real here they were our first round opponent. There team is predicated on offense and with AI and Carmelo they are a superb offensive team. They would have beat both of your first 2 opponents in a 7 game series.

Indeed. More possessions since they are so good offensively. The Cavs weren't able to slow them down.

[mardigan]

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.

No , I cant believe the level that these Cav fans are downplaying Timmys impact on the game. Its even more so than LeBrons

[Marcus Bryant]

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.

...or real 2nd and 3rd stars.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Cavs didn't beat the Nuggets this season either.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs swept the Wizards, Nets, and Pistons this season.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Cavs didn't beat the Nuggets this season either.

And in one of those games, Carmelo didn't play.