Rasho the Enigma

**Aggie Hoopsfan** · 12-05-2004

David was never a dunk it your face type either.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Tpark, quit while you're behind. Way behind.

Brodels,

of course Brodels,

your an expert.

Im sure you could dunk on those guys unlke that stiff Nesterovic right.

Expert commentary lol.

You've got to realize, when Tpark is getting his ass handed to him in an argument, he pulls out the "question their expertise based on experience" card.

In this instance, he challenges you to dunk like an NBAer. Similarly, when anyone criticizes Pop's coaching, they are asked how many games they have coached at the pro level, and how many NBA rings they have.

It is the penultimate straw man argument from TPark, and if it really applied or was pertinent to the discussion, there wouldn't be any reason to have this forum.

Tpark, come on man. No one here has played in the league. No one has coached there. That doesn't mean we can't comment on . This is a fan site, intended for fan commentary and discussion.

If we all had to have NBA level experience to discuss things, there would be no message board here.

Here's a challenge for you - actually bring a basketball take to things on this site, instead of your stupid ass "how many NBA games have you played/coached in" bull .

**Brodels** · 12-05-2004

You can observe it all you want but your opinions and comments about being soft only means something to people who think like you. To the rest of us it is meaningless drival, hater.

It basically comes down to this: because I disagree with you, my opinions are worthless. At least admit that this is what it's all about.

Obviously, those "soft" comments mean a ton to you or you wouldn't be taking the time to refute them. If they were indeed nothing but 'meaningless drivel,' you wouldn't take the time to discuss them. So my comments actually mean something to more than just the people who think like me. They mean something to you, whether you like it or not.

It seems as though you feel that those who don't play the game have no business commenting on it. I mean, if it's 'meaningless drivel' when I say that Rasho is soft, isn't it the same when you say he's not soft?

Answer me this: am I Ben Wallace hater if I say that he's a poor three-point shooter? Am I a Shaq hater if I observe that he's a poor free-throw shooter? Am I a Tamar Slay hater if I say that he's not as good as Kobe Bryant?

The fact is, people that don't play the game make intelligent comments about the game every day. Reporters do it. Coaches do it. People on this forum do it. Just because you choose not to observe weaknesses in Rasho's game doesn't mean that those who do are haters. In fact, I like Rasho's game. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm objective enough to see that he's soft on the offensive end.

And furthermore, you haven't exactly explained why he's not soft on the offensive end. All you've done is bust out the 'haters' card.

Its funny how many people will blindly support the president and all his actions and policies, but when it comes to certain players on your so called favorite team, you act so rightous. I guess its easy since the sheep are conditioned this way.

I don't blindly support the president. In fact, I don't really support the president at all. I didn't vote for him, and I'm very willing to speak out against him on many issues. What does this have to do with Rasho?

I observe what I think is wrong with the president's policies and comment on that. I observe the weaknesses in Rasho's game and comment on those. And that's how new ideas and opinions spread. That's how the world works, and it's how businesses and nations flourish every day.

So while you're busy spouting that anyone who dares to identify weaknesses in a player is a hater, I'm willing to at least take an objective look, search for reality where I can find it, and listen to others' opinions. Here's a hint: those things would benefit you, too.

**Dalamar_the_Dark** · 12-05-2004

Please for goodness sakes!

All you id*@#s out there who want Rasho to be some highlight grabbing dunk machine should go suck a lemon.

That's the problem with the NBA nowadays. Dont you guys ever learn? Yeah it looks great seeing a dunk or 2 but this aint NBA 2004 in playstation where you practically dunk on every single trip up the floor.

It's also why Team USA thought they could dunk on everyone and forgot how to shoot the damn ball.

Whatever happened to appreciating Rasho's hook? Or soft touch around the basket and not see it as being a soft player?

I personally think Rasho is not soft. He can mix with the best of them. Please go watch games and maybe play the game. You dont have to go bashing everyone to the floor to be tough. Divac flops a lot and do you think he or Rasho is softer? So quit picking on Rasho.

Rasho will never get DRob's numbers when DRob was an all-star. Why? Because we have 2 other potential all-stars on the team T-park and Manu. Look at the Lakers last year. With 4 all-stars on the team, ALL their numbers suffered.

Rasho doesnt need to light it up everynight on the stat sheet. He doesnt have to but he has proven that he can when Timmy was out of action last year.

For me, he is doing a fine job just changing shots playing D blocking shots and giving the opposition something significant to factor in.

So all you supposedly super analysts or pros waiting in the wings should really go re-evaluate yourselves.

**Spurminator** · 12-05-2004

Rasho is a talented big man who is more valuable than many centers who are paid twice what he makes. But I don't see how anyone can argue that he's not soft on offense. He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague. He holds onto the ball like a big, round, wet bar of soap.

Now I'd certainly rather have a soft big man with Rasho's talent starting at center for my team than a much less talented banger, but that doesn't cloud my perception of his aggressiveness.

**ChumpDumper** · 12-05-2004

Rasho's lack of dunking doesn't stem from softness, it stems from slowness. Rasho is slow and he knows it. He overcompenates by never bringing the ball down on a rebound and getting his shot up in the quickest manner available to him, which is obviously not dunking. Sure he should dunk more, but this is one of the bigger molehill mountains Spurfans can't seem to put into any real perspective.

**Brodels** · 12-05-2004

All you id*@#s out there who want Rasho to be some highlight grabbing dunk machine should go suck a lemon.

I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for him to dunk when he should and use power moves when the situation calls for it, that's all. There is a big difference between that and asking Rasho to become a 'highlight grabbing dunk machine.'

That's the problem with the NBA nowadays. Dont you guys ever learn? Yeah it looks great seeing a dunk or 2 but this aint NBA 2004 in playstation where you practically dunk on every single trip up the floor.

I don't disagree.

It's also why Team USA thought they could dunk on everyone and forgot how to shoot the damn ball.

Team USA's problems were deeper than that. And it wasn't that they forgot how to shoot the ball, it's just that they didn't have any really good perimeter shooters on the team to shoot the ball.

Whatever happened to appreciating Rasho's hook? Or soft touch around the basket and not see it as being a soft player?

I do appreciate those things. And I want him to continue to use them. All I'm asking is that he become more aggressive when the situation calls for it. Finish strong instead of floating up a brick. Use a power move instead of taking a turnaround jumper from fifteen feet once in a while.

It would make him a more complete player.

I personally think Rasho is not soft.

I personally disagree, at least on the offensive end. I don't think he's been soft defensively, and I'm not arguing that.

He can mix with the best of them.

On defense, he can mix with most of them.

Please go watch games and maybe play the game.

I do both of those things often.

You dont have to go bashing everyone to the floor to be tough.

I'm not bashing anyone. I'm recognizing a weakness in Rasho's game and stating that he'd be a better player and the Spurs would be better off if his weakness turned into a strength. I'm not expecting it to happen. I'm just observing.

Divac flops a lot and do you think he or Rasho is softer? So quit picking on Rasho.

Personally, at this point in his career, I think that Vlade just isn't very good any more. He certainly isn't very mobile.

Rasho will never get DRob's numbers when DRob was an all-star. Why? Because we have 2 other potential all-stars on the team T-park and Manu.

Wrong. Rasho will never get Drob's numbers when DRob was an all-star because Rasho isn't nearly as good as David was in his prime. If you think that Rasho would get those numbers without TP and Manu on the team you're simply on crack. Tim Duncan can't even get David Robinson's numbers.

Look at the Lakers last year. With 4 all-stars on the team, ALL their numbers suffered.

I personally haven't cited one stat. I'm not looking at stats at all. I'm looking at what Rasho does when he's around the basket. His true contributions are difficult to measure with statistics, and I understand that.

For me, he is doing a fine job just changing shots playing D blocking shots and giving the opposition something significant to factor in.

I think he's doing a fine job, too. Citing a weakness in his game doesn't mean that I think he's doing poorly. I'm quite happy with his play this season.

So all you supposedly super analysts or pros waiting in the wings should really go re-evaluate yourselves.

I haven't seen anyone identify themselves as a 'super analyst' or 'pro,' but I'll assume you're referring to me. And if that's the case, here's my question: what should I be re-evaluating about myself, and why does that need to occur? If you really think I should re-evaluate myself because I have an opinion on a basketball forum that happens to be relatively widespread and accepted by many NBA fans, I simply see things differently than you do.

**Brodels** · 12-05-2004

Originally Posted by Spurminator

Rasho is a talented big man who is more valuable than many centers who are paid twice what he makes. But I don't see how anyone can argue that he's not soft on offense. He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague. He holds onto the ball like a big, round, wet bar of soap.

Now I'd certainly rather have a soft big man with Rasho's talent starting at center for my team than a much less talented banger, but that doesn't cloud my perception of his aggressiveness.

I agree wholeheartedly.

**Brodels** · 12-05-2004

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Rasho's lack of dunking doesn't stem from softness, it stems from slowness. Rasho is slow and he knows it. He overcompenates by never bringing the ball down on a rebound and getting his shot up in the quickest manner available to him, which is obviously not dunking. Sure he should dunk more, but this is one of the bigger molehill mountains Spurfans can't seem to put into any real perspective.

I respectfully disagree. While I think that his slowness has something to do with it, I just think he doesn't finish aggressively or make aggressive moves even when they are available. That's why he doesn't get to the line.

I'm not anti-Rasho, but many of his 'soft' moments that I've witnessed have less to do with his slowness and more to do with his lack of aggressiveness.

**GoSpurs21** · 12-05-2004

Originally Posted by Brodels

It basically comes down to this: because I disagree with you, my opinions are worthless. At least admit that this is what it's all about.

And furthermore, you haven't exactly explained why he's not soft on the offensive end. All you've done is bust out the 'haters' card.

I do admit that Rasho should be more agressive on O, but i will not resort to calling him soft

I just disagree with calling any current Spurs soft. Pop can do it but your opinions about anyone being on the Spurs being soft will be ignored by me. Do you really think Pop would have players that are always soft on his team? I agree that all Spurs players need to work on the weaknesses, but I hate that people are quick to critize Rasho, but will not say anything negative about Tim.

I just dont like the hypocrisy when discussing Spurs players. I guess I am just more sensitive about people who are quick to lables on others because they sense weakness.

I guess that makes me a homer...so be it. i just prefer to focus on the positive rather dwell on the negative

I'm glad that you are not one of the sheep in this country

**Brodels** · 12-05-2004

I do admit that Rasho should be more agressive on O, but i will not resort to calling him soft

What's the difference between calling him unaggressive on offense and soft on offense? It's all a matter of sematics and nothing more. Saying he's soft acknowledges that he has a weakness. Certainly you're not above admitting that some players have weaknesses.

I just disagree with calling any current Spurs soft. Pop can do it

Even if they are? I mean, do you go hide in the closet when there is a thunderstorm?

but your opinions about anyone being on the Spurs being soft will be ignored by me.

I think you've paid more attention to me in this thread than you have to anyone else, so you're incorrect. Obviously my opnions are not ignored by you. They must really mean something to you if you are taking the time to respond so passionately.

Do you really think Pop would have players that are always soft on his team?

Sure, I think Pop will have players that are offensively soft around the basket if they bring it in other areas. And let's get this straight: before you make up what I'm saying further, let it be known that I never claimed that Rasho was 'always soft.' I said he is soft on offense.

I agree that all Spurs players need to work on the weaknesses,

Yet you think it's a crime to actually identify those weaknesses. It's a fan board. We talk about players' weaknesses, even if we aren't experts.

but I hate that people are quick to critize Rasho, but will not say anything negative about Tim.

I say negative things about Tim, too. I call out any Spurs player if he isn't doing what he needs to be doing. I've started threads in the past month about Duncan's offensive indecision.

I just dont like the hypocrisy when discussing Spurs players. I guess I am just more sensitive about people who are quick to lables on others because they sense weakness.

It's not a matter of sensing weakness. It's a matter of identifying weaknesses. It's a matter of not being afraid to admit that all Spurs players aren't perfect. And it's a matter of calling it like it is.

I guess that makes me a homer...so be it

I don't care if you're a homer. TPark is a homer, too, and I engage in good discussions with him. And he doesn't even bust out the namecalling very much anymore. My hope is that you'll avoid calling people out because they are willing to try and look at things objectively and that they realize that not all Spurs players are perfect.

I'm glad that you are not one of the sheep in this country

I'm far from a sheep. Politically, I don't support either major party. In other areas, I often go against the grain. I'm glad that you're glad.

**Medvedenko** · 12-05-2004

85 posts for this mess....Mihm>Rasho...that's as sad as it gets. Still your spurs are playing phenominal ball with a Scrub center....

**Dalamar_the_Dark** · 12-05-2004

Let's put it this way, if Rasho was a good FT shooter, then by all means go strong and get the foul.

However, he is a H_P_L_SS FT shooter and should not try and draw the foul hence his preference to go for the 'soft' approach and use a little hook or lay up. I think Pop is happier this way too. Opposing players aint going to foul you or give up contact when you dont go into them and be aggressive to draw the foul.

This is what I would call working to your advantage. If Rasho were to be aggressive and take it to the hole, then there will be another 7 footers missed FTs that we would be complaining about.

**Aggie Hoopsfan** · 12-06-2004

He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague.

Let's be honest here, Rasho's role on the offensive end of the court consists of:

1) staying out of Duncan's low post space
2) staying out of the cutting lanes of the wings
3) staying out at the FT line
4) getting back on D the moment a shot goes up

How aggressive do you think he's actually going to be in the lane, on the off chance he ever is there?

**T Park** · 12-06-2004

also,

he was brought in on offense for his JUMP SHOT

NOT his low post game.

If they wanted a low post scorer, they wouldve gone after Tazer boy.

Once again, thank god they didndt.

**Spurminator** · 12-06-2004

It's not so much his play as a scoring option... it's mainly the instances when he'll grab an offensive rebound and then either fade away on a put back or turn immediately and try to get rid of it. I just want to see him at least LOOK at the basket to see if he has space to go up strong and finish... Whether or not it's a dunk, just go strong.

But like I said, this isn't a criticism of his all-around game, or a regret that he's playing center for us, it's simply an observation on one facet of his game. I think some of you are taking it as more of a degradation of Rasho as a player than it's meant to be.

**T Park** · 12-06-2004

Rasho is also a little smarter player than he gets credit for.

If he looks like he doesnt want to go straight back up, he prob thinks its low percentage and just reset the offense.

More than likely, thats Pop and the coaching staff have instilled in him, Rebound reset the O.

**Brodels** · 12-06-2004

Originally Posted by Spurminator

It's not so much his play as a scoring option... it's mainly the instances when he'll grab an offensive rebound and then either fade away on a put back or turn immediately and try to get rid of it. I just want to see him at least LOOK at the basket to see if he has space to go up strong and finish... Whether or not it's a dunk, just go strong.

But like I said, this isn't a criticism of his all-around game, or a regret that he's playing center for us, it's simply an observation on one facet of his game. I think some of you are taking it as more of a degradation of Rasho as a player than it's meant to be.

Somebody gets it.

**kginsa** · 12-07-2004

Dalamar,
Great Analysis......You only speak the truth and have said everything I have been thinking throughout this whole "Rasho The Enigma" thread. He is not DRob or TDuncan...He was hired to be a servicable center and he has become just that... his game has improved immensely since last season....I can only see this guy getting better...move on Rasho bashers !!!! I guess many people would have preferred to hire Olowakandi...who was also available at the time of Rasho's signing.....Boy, he is working out great in Minnesota

**Ghost Writer** · 12-07-2004

Chump, I'd rather Dalembert at his current salary than Rasho.

I told you why Dalembert fell out of favor.

Stop taking tidbits out of context and pretending to have a point about something that was already explained to you.

Virtually all of Rasho's numbers are DOWN this year. His defense has not been much better, either.

Shouldn't Rasho be better in his second year with the Spurs?

P.S.

And Eric Williams > Bruce Bowen

**Solid D** · 12-07-2004

And Eric Williams > Bruce Bowen

**Ghost Writer** · 12-07-2004

Um, he is.

And Rasho should do better than he did last year.

We excused him last year.

Now it's time to show us something.

We replaced a so-called soft center that was great with a so-called soft center who is not very good.

**pjjrfan** · 12-07-2004

Originally Posted by Medvedenko

85 posts for this mess....Mihm>Rasho...that's as sad as it gets. Still your spurs are playing phenominal ball with a Scrub center....

Mihm disappears every other game, defensively Rasho is part of the system and is there every night. On offense, well, what can I say, he is what he is. I guess we could lock him up with an Oakley and leave him there for a week or two, but he might not survive. He does some good things but his weak putbacks that don't even hit the rim dang, they just tear at me, if I had had that size, oh well. I quit ing at him last year because defensively he is big, he moves to his spots, he rotates to the open man, he knows the defense and does his job. On occasion his slow feet get him in trouble but the guy is always looking for his spot to help out on defense. Yeah I would like him to be more aggressive especially in rebounding, where he sometimes lets himself get pushed out. But what the . As long as Pop is happy with him it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. And right now Pop is happy with him.