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I bet you do. Fits in with the whole celebrity obsession of the righties here.
I wonder what Rosie really says about his sister-in-law?
I bet you do. Fits in with the whole celebrity obsession of the righties here.
Wait a minute. That is all he said.
He said McNabb was getting all the media attention because the press wanted to see a black succeed at quarterback.
No. he started his comment that mcnabb was overhyped by the media. that in itself was a legit opinion. when he went on to say that the sports world had become another avenue for liberals to espouse their ideology and that they wanted an african american to succeed because he black was dumb. he was called on it and backtracked back under the rock he came out from.
LOL... I was making a joke. The lone conservative voice on "The View" is Elisabeth Hasselbeck. Married to Giant's Tim Hasselbeck, Matt's brother. Rosie O'Donnel quit right after being bested by Hasselbeck in an argument.
No obsession, but how could anyone miss that news?
For the record, I never said McNabb was anything less than a mediocre NFL quarterback. Now, in the universe of NFL quarterbacks vs. all others, he's a damn fine one.
But, that's not the issue here. He wasn't quarterback at the Eagles because he was black. He was quarterback because he was the best QB they had on the roster. They signed him thinking he was the best fit for the team.
Now, having said all that, it is true that he was, at best, a mediocre NFL quarterback in the years leading up to the Limbaugh comment and that is the point in question. Limbaugh opined, and I agree, that he was hyped by the media because they wanted a black quarterback to be the best in the league. Period.
I didn't read all of WC's posts but, I just want it clear that I think McNabb is a damn good quarterback and any team would be fortunate to have him on the roster.
If you'll look back at my plagiarized post, the author actually compared McNabb to another quarterback that same year and pointed out why McNabb probably didn't -- except for his race and the media's desire -- deserve all the accolades he was given.
But, seriously, I'm with GGA on this one, there's no professional sports team in existence that practices affirmative action. Their single purpose in life is to win the championship game/series for whatever sport they're in. Period.
Yoni please provide me with something else besides someone's opinion on the media wanting mcnabb to succeed because he was black? any objective source not including a right wing website, talk radio host..? anything?
What? Show me a quite inferring DUMB pleaseI'm not aware of any backtracking.
Rush can be an arrogant ass, but he is not prejudice.
That was a true statement as well.
Jeeze! Remember all the crap the media made about two black coaches being in the Super Bowl?
The media is the one introducing race...not the teams and not Rush Limbaugh.
the only person who brought mcnabb's race into was hush limbaugh!!
Well, it's been a few years so my google skills may be tested but, I'll try. The author of my do ent alluded to the 90's being full of such examples so, who knows, I may have some luck.
Yoni please provide me with something else besides someone's opinion on the media wanting mcnabb to succeed because he was black? any objective source not including a right wing website, talk radio host..? anything?
I do remember, as I mentioned in my last post, how big a deal the media made out of it when the two black coaches went to the Super Bowl.
I think he was relating the medias hype of McNabb to all the other race-related media attention during the 90's and concluded the only reason the media would be holding McNabb up as the greatest thing since sliced bread was because he was a black quarterback that was performing reasonably well. Period.
I guess you don't remember how big a deal it was back then.
They were the 1st black coaches Yoni.
That gas station deal really ed you up.
I think we can agree that it we should have taken note that this was the first time 2 black head coaches met in the SB. Just like jackie Robinson was , and still is, celebrated for his breaking the color barrier. I also agree that it was over done and the coaches admitted as such however I do not believe that the medai was overtly trying to push a social agenda when running away with the story.
There should be several articles from the mainstream media back then saying McNabb is great because he's black. Google away.
I'm not sure why a media that fawns over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can be said to have had an agenda to push a black quarterback -- except, of course, to the extent that some who wish to decry the media seem anxious to foment racial tension by making such stupid statements.
The notion that McNabb was just some mediocre quarterback in the years preceding the Limbaugh incident is beyond ludicrous to me. McNabb played on teams that had horrendous wide receivers -- guys who couldn't get open playing against air. At the same time, his teams never had anyone who could consistently run the ball. It's amazing what a difference those guys can make to a team -- it's likewise remarkable that a quarterback who lacked those sorts of weapons for years could, nevertheless, manage to play his team into championship games on an annual basis.
I don't know of any quarterback who can put up exceptional numbers when his best receiving threats are consistently his tight end and a running back. Somehow, everyone in the Limbaugh camp is anxious to overlook what was around McNabb, fails to see just how much McNabb elevated his team to the upper limits that those players were capable of achieving, and managed to run an effective offense that was short on real threats.
In 2000, McNabb's first year as a starter, the Eagles top rusher not named McNabb was Duce Staley who gained a whopping 344 yards. McNabb's top target that year? His tight end, Chad Lewis, who had 69 catches for 735 yards. His best WR caught 56 passes.
In 2002, the Eagles got Duce Staley back from injury, but he only managed 604 yards rushing on 3.6 yards per carry. McNabb's top targets that year were his running back, Staley, who caught 63 passes, and a journeyman WR named James Thrash.
In 2003, Staley was the first back during McNabb's tenure to reach 1000 yards rushing, rolling to 1029 yards, placing him 16th among all rushers in the league. McNabb's best target was the tissue soft Todd Pinkston, who grabbed 60 passes.
In 2004, McNabb finally had a major league target to throw to -- Terrell Owens -- and for the first time in his career, had a receiver catch more than 70 passes and eclipse 1000 receiving yards. Not surprisingly, finally flushed with actual threats to assist his effort, McNabb had a statistically remarkable season.
In 2005, McNabb was forced again to deal with a team who's best receiving threats were its tight end and tailback. Not surprisingly, his numbers faded a bit.
My point is that I don't think you can judge a quarterback on his numbers without looking at what exists around him. McNabb made due for a lot of years without the sorts of offensive help that guys like Manning or Gannon or Culpepper or Trent Green had surrounding them.
In fact, the closest equivalent during that time is Tom Brady, who's teams for many years didn't have great threats. In the years surrounding Limbaugh's idiot statement, Brady and McNabb were statistically very similar. In 2001, McNabb was 7th in the NFL in QB rating; Brady was 6th. In 2002, McNabb was 8th; Brady was 9th. In 2003, McNabb was 16th; Brady was 10th. In 2004, McNabb was 4th; Brady was 9th.
Somehow, nobody calls Brady mediocre or argues that he's experienced success only because his team's defense was carrying the day. Brady's teams go to the Super Bowl (with great defense -- in 2003 and 2004 (both Patriots' championship years) the Pats had a better defense than the Eagles did) and nobody is suggesting that hailing Brady as a great quarterback is some racially-motivated ploy to push a white player into greatness. McNabb's teams play in 4 consecutive conference le games and in one Super Bowl and McNabb is deemed a fraud.
Anyone with a lick of football sense knows your only as good as your surrounding teammates are. Of course the hush defenders here are only concerned with stats and qb ratings (by the way david carr was one of the highest rated QBs last year and he was the worst QB in the league).
besides everyone knows it's defense that wins championships
My point was, the media was doing the same damn thing with black quarterbacks all during the late 90's and early 00's. And, with McNabb, they overdid it as well -- giving the impression they thought he was the second coming of Joe Montana.
It was on that Rush Limbaugh was commenting.
Oh, and I was wrong about professional sports not practicing affirmative action. I had forgotten all about the requirement to interview minorities for coaching slots. I even believe a team was fined for not interviewing a minority.
As far as finding "media hype" from the period, I'm not finding anything. What I do find is plenty of people talking about televised post-game summaries, game commentary, and pre-game shows that were full of McNabb worshipping in the time period leading up to the Limbaugh comment. But, you said you didn't want to see that.
Here's an interesting Sports Illustrated article by Peter King
Two things I don't believe this guy considered is that Rush Limbaugh wasn't asserting there is an overt, deliberate, conspiracy, by the press, to hype black quarterbacks; it is a manifestation of the politically correct mindset that tends to inappropriately interject race into matters that should probably be left alone -- like making a big deal out of two black coaches reaching the Super Bowl.Open mouth, insert foot
Limbaugh's comments on McNabb aren't racist, but they are boneheaded
I had to shake my head this morning when I heard about Rush Limbaugh's comments on Donovan McNabb. You may have heard them by now, but if you haven't, Limbaugh said on ESPN's Sunday pre-game show that he didn't think the Eagles quarterback was as good as the media made him out to be.
"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL,'' Limbaugh said. "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well ... McNabb got a lot of the credit for the performance of the team that he really didn't deserve.''
Limbaugh was not making a racist statement about black quarterbacks. He was making a racist statement about me. Actually, about me and my colleagues. But I feel like he was talking to me. I am not going to make this about any political view Limbaugh might hold about affirmative action--or about anything, really, except his exact words. And I can tell you that they are incredibly absurd.
Last week, the editors at Sports Illustrated sent me to Philadelphia to look into why McNabb was playing so poorly early in the season. The Eagles were 0-2, and McNabb had been brutal in those eight quarters, completing 45 percent of his passes with no touchdowns and three interceptions. Last Thursday, in search of answers, I interviewed McNabb, coach Andy Reid, tight end Chad Lewis and center Hank Fraley. I interviewed the Bucs' Warren Sapp, who had opposed the Eagles in Week 1.
I went to NFL Films and watched some tape of two games -- Game 2 in 2002 and Game 2 in 2003. What a dichotomy: McNabb was 26-of-38 passing and scrambled for a touchdown in a masterful 37-7 Monday night rout of the Redskins in 2002, then was a pitiful 18-of-46 in a 31-7 New England rout of the Eagles one year later. Anyone who watched those two tapes would say that McNabb looked confident, strong-armed, bold and accurate in the 2002 game. They would also say that the 2003 McNabb, at least based on the tape I watched, was totally discombobulated.
So, before flying to Buffalo for this past Sunday's game, I developed my theories. I thought McNabb was rushing his throws and was mechanically unsound, throwing off his back foot and from other faulty angles. I thought he had happy feet, maybe nervous happy feet because his protection was breaking down so quickly. I thought he was missing open receivers on at least a third of his incompletions and not taking time to see the whole field. I thought he wasn't running nearly enough for such a talented runner; he didn't leave the pocket against the carnivorous Bucs in week one through the first 31 minutes of the game. I thought his weapons were lacking, and that Reid was trying to make studs out of second- and third-receiver types.
I also thought McNabb was getting no help from his running game. And I thought, as I have thought (and said, and written) in the past, that McNabb was simply not accurate enough to be a truly great player; his career completion rate of 56.6 percent over four-plus years demonstrated that.
I was all set to put down my theories in writing at the Bills-Eagles Sunday in Buffalo. But then a funny thing happened on the way to the rip job. McNabb played well. Not other-worldly, but well. He led the Eagles to two scores in a hostile house on their first two drives, and he had them up 16-0 three-quarters of the way into the game. His first and third plays were not the plays of an overrated, media-propped-up bum. The first was a beautifully thrown and timed 27-yard sideline fade to Todd Pinkston. The third was a logical scramble for 25 yards.
And so, after winning a huge game on the road by 10 points and very likely salvaging the Eagles' season, McNabb was hardly due for an SI story questioning his skills and the ability of those around him. He was owed some kudos for rising to the occasion and playing the best game he'd played in probably 10 months. We've got a saying among those who cover the sport about waiting till Sunday night to write your game stories. Something like, That's why they play the games. I believe Chris Berman, just to Limbaugh's right on ESPN's set, says that quite a lot.
Maybe McNabb's fundamental difficulties are still there. If the Eagles' season eventually goes down in flames and they go 6-10 and McNabb stinks, we'll write about it. But to suggest, as Limbaugh did on ESPN, that we in the media have even deep-background or off-the-record discussions in press boxes or magazine offices about propping up black coaches and quarterbacks is incredible.
Maybe, I thought, I'm being naïve here. Maybe someone here has an agenda I haven't heard of. I called Reuben Frank of the Burlington County (N.J.) Times. He has covered the Eagles' beat since 1987. He's covered quarterbacks white (Bubby Brister, Bobby Hoying, Ty Detmer, Koy Detmer) and black (Randall Cunningham, Rodney Peete, McNabb), and coaches white (Rich Ko e, Reid) and black (Ray Rhodes).
I wondered in the past 17 seasons whether Frank had ever heard in the press room or on the practice field, or while having a few beers the night before games, a colleague talking about how great it was to see a black quarterback or coach succeeding. I wondered whether Frank had ever heard a fellow journalist say that he and his peers should write nice things about the black people and not such nice things about the white people. "In all the years I've covered this team,'' Frank said, "nobody I've heard has ever said anything remotely along those lines. I don't think of Donovan McNabb as a black quarterback and I didn't think of Rhodes as a black coach. They're a quarterback and a coach. Maybe someone in our business thinks the way Limbaugh said, but I haven't met him.''
Now, there is something that Limbaugh said that I do agree with. He stated that McNabb had gotten credit for the defense playing so well and winning games. Welcome to the real world. When you win in football, the quarterback gets too much credit, unless he's Spergon Wynn or Trent Dilfer. That's just the way life is. Quarterbacks get too much credit if the team wins and too much blame if the team loses. That's why they make the big dough.
The bottom line is that yes, I agree McNabb is overrated. He would have been on my top 10 list of quarterbacks in 2001 -- when he played two terrific playoff games and had a good regular season -- but he's been too inconsistent since then to be called a premier quarterback.
Last week, I pitched a story idea to my editor, Mark Godich, about how rookie quarterbacks should be developed. I told him how well I thought ans coach Jeff Fisher had done in developing a raw but potentially great quarterback, Steve McNair, who happens to be black. My point was that Fisher thought it best to spoonfeed McNair slowly -- not because he was black, but because he thought a quarterback coming from relatively small Alcorn State to the NFL needed a couple of years to get adjusted to playing big-league football. In Limbaughworld, Godich would have said, "Let's do it, and let's blow it up big. McNair's the top-rated quarterback in football, and he's black!'' But in the real world, Godich took a pass, and I'll write about something else this week.
I'm white, as you probably know. This is 2003. Who cares?
The second glaring omission in the article is that he only talked about print media. Much of the hype took place on television during or near game times.
But, I posted the article because it supports the premise that a) McNabb was overhyped and b) he was, at the time, a mediocre NFL quarterback.
Can a quarterback be hyped for reasons other than race?
That's the big thing Yoni the lying racist idiot is ignoring. He is inappropriately interjecting race into matters that should probably be left alone. Just like Rush did.
Last edited by ChumpDumper; 06-28-2007 at 01:52 PM.
Hey. Back off. You weren't accosted at a gas station and currently being stalked by Al and Jesse. shut it
But when they hailed a QB who was statistically similar to McNabb (Brady) to Montana they were perfectly in line?
I'm sure Rush thinks Brady is great. Brady is statistically similar to McNabb. Rush thinks McNabb is mediocre. I see a problem with his objectivity in that analysis.
Plenty of people talking about televised post-game summaries, game commentary, and pre-game shows were full of Brady worshipping in the time period leading up to the Limbaugh comment, too. Again, if Brady is great and McNabb is statistically similar (at least in terms of a universal metric used to measure QB's) why wasn't Rush out of line in mischaracterizing McNabb and seeking to inject race into that analysis?
It's ridiculous.
Yoni, you come accross as quite a racist.
Sorry. I don't mean to.
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