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Yeah if Presti gets done, what I think he can get done, hes gonna be the next Jerry West.
Presti has to be licking his chops. He's going to get $15M in cap space to play with while Minnesota is trying to unload Garnett, Phoenix is trying to dump cap (Marion or Stoudemire), Indiana is trying to get rid of O'Neal, and Kobe is demanding a trade.
Yeah if Presti gets done, what I think he can get done, hes gonna be the next Jerry West.
No, that's not it. While it's true that blogs don't have to check sources or even have anything to do with reality, my point is that the link you provided doesn't make any ing sense. It's not a "story", it sounds more like rambling. It's a middle with no beginning and no end. It says he was standing in the hallway sending text messages and that he left her tickets to the game. If you find something saying he was snorting coke from her snatch, feel free to post up.
Yeah, three or four stories from legitimate news sources can't be believed, but you posted a half a paragraph from a blog quoting another blog. Sound logic from you, as always.
Sorry, I didn't know about the eleventh commandment: Thou shalt be in bed by 9:30.And yeah, I'm sure they're "just friends." I guess 4 a.m. is a good time to meet up with her to convince her to change her ways:
The guy goes on and on about how he's a Christian and lives a godly life. Fine, whatever, I don't care either way. It's not my place to judge somebody's spiritual beliefs, or if Mary Carey s for money on camera. Live and let live. Consorting with s at 4 a.m. in the morning casts aspersions on the original poster's claim that Howard has a problem with people or teammates that don't measure up to lofty Christian standards, which is the only reason I brought it up. My logic is just fine. If he's going to go to a party with porn stars in the middle of the night, where I doubt they sit around and play Scattegories, I doubt he's going to have a problem with the 80% of NBA players who enjoy the crippler, as OP stated.Yeah, three or four stories from legitimate news sources can't be believed,
Feel free to find the passage in my original posts where I claimed anything more than what was reported in the blog was going on.It says he was standing in the hallway sending text messages and that he left her tickets to the game. If you find something saying he was snorting coke from her snatch, feel free to post up.
Eyewitness account from the pros ute/porn star...And they obviously know each other, unless you think that's a photoshop job.you posted a half a paragraph from a blog quoting another blog.
Haughty baggery from you, as always.Sound logic from you, as always
Last edited by Findog; 07-03-2007 at 04:20 PM.
I'm with you. Dwight Howard had a David Robinsonesque reputation. You don't need to have the videotape to prove somethings going on with Dwight and a PS. Doesn't look like he's trying to show her the way either. I don't know why he couldn't just find a non-PS girl.
a guy sitting with a girl standing next to him doesn't cons ute like screwing.
What if she just walked up and was "Like OMG your dwight ing howard, i wnat a picture for my girlfriend who loves to think about you at night"
ya know?
Naw, I'd rather have a 27-year-old former All-Star who can drop 20 a night for the max than a one-dimensional shooter for the full MLE.
No, the very fact that he's in the same room with her means that anything he says about his religious beliefs is automatically a lie.
Of course, Mark Cuban automatically gets the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are heard.
great point OV
Rashard Lewis sucks. He put up 22 and 6 last year on the NBA's former wasteland team. Lewis is lazy and basically a chucker. He has average athleticism now and he cares way more about his jewelry and wearing XXXXXL white tshirts than he does improving the Magic.
Anything would have made Orlando a top 3 team in the East. They were probably going to be better from experience anyways. I don't understand NBA teams doing this to themselves. This has shades of the Allan Houston signing. In two years, nobody is going to want to touch his $15m/yr k, including the Magic.
Horrible signing - even talent wise. The Magic would have been better off paying Kapono $40 and at least having an elite shooter.
To those that said Presti should have got something, it looks like he heard you, but like someone else mentioned, how much leverage does he have? The Magic already threw away their future for him, what's another year to them? If Presti did trade him, doesn't he have to take back that much in k's? (This isn't sarcastic, I seriously am not sure because of what you said.)
No, it just means that he's a lot more tolerant of non-Christian behavior and ideals than what the other poster says. Beyond that, it's speculation.
Among other first-person accounts of that night:
http://www.lukeisback.com/archives/updates/061125.htm
"When Dwight [Howard] showed up, I didn't know what to do because I thought he was a very good Christian.
"When we went in the bathroom, he wasn't acting Christian-like. I was like, 'I thought you were really religious.' He started laughing and pulled his pants down. I was like, 'I can't do this here. I'm with Chris [Kirkpatrick] here.'
"He's like, 'My dad's at my house.'"
Even if it's just her word vs his, at the very least, his presence there mean he's not a stuck-up prude. I've made my point and proved my case: he doesn't expect others to live up to lofty Christian ideals in order to be his teammate or at the very least his friend.
Last edited by Findog; 07-03-2007 at 05:02 PM.
Yes, I read it. The story was reported in several places. Oh yeah, that's right, blog = automatically not true.
Ha, PR fluff from the 4-letter, among others. Just because a guy makes an ostentatious display of his faith don't make it so. I really don't care what he does or doesn't do, or what his views on metaphysics are. It's just as likely that he's a simple God-fearing man as it is that he enjoys the NBA lifestyle. We don't know for sure what goes on in the private lives and I don't care either way. If we can't trust a blog, we can't trust his publicist either.
And yeah, I'm sure they're "just friends." I guess 4 a.m. is a good time to meet up with her to convince her to change her ways:
I'm pretty sure that there would have been an equally incriminating picture of Jesus, had there been photo-recording equipment available circa 30 B.C. He took in a pros ute, cared for her, saved her life when righteously indignant people were ready to end it.
Hanging out with a porn star doesn't implicate a person. It doesn't make him less of a Christian. It certainly raises some interesting questions as to his habits and ethics, but it isn't your place to say who he hangs out with -- or what kind of person he is for being seen in public with that person. He could be leading her to the Word for all you know.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
No it doesn't, and that wasn't my point.Hanging out with a porn star doesn't implicate a person.
Never claimed that either.It doesn't make him less of a Christian.
That WAS my point -- in response to another poster who said Howard's religious beliefs would preclude him from wanting to be teammates with those that didn't share his beliefs or live up to Christian standards and morals.It certainly raises some interesting questions as to his habits and ethics,
Never said he couldn't do this or that or was passing judgment on him. His business is his business. But what this all proves is that he's NOT a prude -- which is the basis of the original claim made in this thread.but it isn't your place to say who he hangs out with -- or what kind of person he is for being seen in public with that person.
Um, that appears to be the same account by the same person in the original blog, and you are apparently trying to pass it off as a second source. At least this one actually suggests he did something.
Well, in order to get the whole truth, aparently all you need are two half-truths. Well done, Mavfan.
It's an interview with Mary Carey. I don't have to prove something happened between them sexually because that's not my point. My point is that he's not a stuck-up prude that shuns non-Christians. Way to knock down a strawman, Spurs fan.Um, that appears to be the same account by the same person in the original blog, and you are apparently trying to pass it off as a second source. At least this one actually suggests he did something.
Well, in order to get the whole truth, aparently all you need are two half-truths. Well done, Mavfan.
Then what was the point of this?
I know you rarely make sense, but your point wasn't anywhere close to being that reasonable or defensible. You said "the he is" when someone referred to him as a "pretty strong Christian" and then posted that rambling crap as evidence, only to balk at the articles I posted supporting what that person had said about his faith. There's no strawman there, that was your weak ass argument I've been knocking down, just like almost every other argument you ever make.
Way to just make up and try to lie to cover your ass, Mav fan. What's next, you gonna change your previous posts now?
Actually, they do. Darko made $5.28M, and he counts a multiplier of that (1.5? 2?) against the cap until he is signed or renounced. Orlando doesn't have anywhere NEAR the room to sign Rashard to anything close to that deal until they resolve the Darko situtation. Seattle can basically force them to renounce him by refusing any deal they don't like.2: Clear money for Darko. While it's not impossible that they could, there is no reason that they HAVE to combine the two issues...
Yeah, Seattle can turn down any deal that they don't like. But trades can be made with other teams to clear the necessary cap space if they really really want to keep Darko.
It's not necessary for Seattle to take contracts off their hands in order to prevent Darko from being renounced. Any team - with cap space - can be used.
I know you're not stupid, so I'll chalk this up to you being a disingenuous asshole than being illiterate.I know you rarely make sense, but your point wasn't anywhere close to being that reasonable or defensible.
"The he is" was in response to someone comparing him to David Robinson. Go back to Page 3 and look it up:You said "the he is" when someone referred to him as a "pretty strong Christian"
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=57
Correct me if I'm wrong, but were there ever any stories of David Robinson consorting with porn stars in the wee hours of the morning? And unlike Dwight Howard, who is pornstar-friendly and doesn't hold people around him to his lofty standards, didn't David Robinson have an instrumental role in sending Dennis Rodman out of town? I'm honestly asking you on that last one, because unlike you, I don't haughtily presume to know more about another team's history than fans of that team. There's a major difference between David Robinson and Dwight Howard.
Howard has a well-known reputation for being ostentatious about his faith. There's no way to prove whatsover what is in a person's heart. Your articles didn't tell me anything I don't already know.only to balk at the articles I posted supporting what that person had said about his faith.
I really suspect that that you twist arguments and pick fights solely because my avatar is of the Three J's instead of somebody donning the silver and black and I list my favorite team as hailing from the Metroplex instead of central Texas. I remember the first argument we had centered around you claiming I had no awareness of my own team's history, and then I quickly set you straight. Same tune, different verse.There's no strawman there, that was your weak ass argument I've been knocking down, just like almost every other argument you ever make.
Way to concoct strawman arguments and display a troubling amount of aggression.Way to just make up and try to lie to cover your ass, Mav fan.
No, why would I? I even posted a link to it. If people care about this re ed cripple fight you started, they can read it and conclude for themselves:What's next, you gonna change your previous posts now?
"Dwight Howard is a strong Christian like David Robinson."
"The he is."
So, are you being stupid or are you just a haughty bag trying to put 14-yr-old Mav fan with the pink Josh Howard jersey in her place? You have the bigger trophy case, be content with that.
Last edited by Findog; 07-03-2007 at 10:19 PM.
It was more like she invited him to a party, and according to her, he exposed himself in a bathroom.
Maybe he was taking a whiz?
haha, she was obstructing his view of the toilet so he could relieve himself.
Let's try this again: I responded in the first place because you cited his knowing a porn star as the sole reason to refute that someone said he was a "pretty strong Christian." I'm not the one who needs reading comprehension lessons, here. You later found more text that actually suggested he did something improper, which makes the Robinson comparison laughable, but was still not the point I had been arguing, and was still the same story from the same person. You keep suggesting that you can't know what's in someone's heart as a defense for continually suggesting that he's a hypocrite who isn't really a Christian. That's the height of hypocrisy. Again, not surprising from you, since you blindly defend Mark Cuban at every turn, yet you throw Howard under the bus based upon the word of someone you impartially refer to as a " ". I have no personal stake in this, but you made yet another stupid statement and have yet to stop trying to defend it.
First of all, the only reason I know more about your team than you do is because I've been a fan of them at least as long as you have, and only stopped being a fan when Mark Cuban became the owner and took all the class out of the organization.
And if you'd said anything remotely as reasonable as "There's a major difference between David Robinson and Dwight Howard" I'd have been right there agreeing with you.
As judgmental as you appear to be (but only if Mark Cuban isn't involved, because we need to withhold our opinions on him until all the evidence is heard), I'm not surprised that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind when compared to an unsubstantiated report on a porn blog of a single person's account of a single incident with a photograph of two people sitting together as evidence.
I never even bothered to look at your avatar. Our first argument was you making over-generalizations based upon all Mark Cuban had done for the team, and when I took you on about it, you said that he was an improvement from Perot and I agreed. That's hardly setting me straight.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. I've explained in exhausting detail the single argument that I refuted, repeatedly. I never implied that you said something you didn't. You keep trying to alter what the original statement was, and what your response was to it. If you'd said anything less unreasonable I wouldn't have bothered to disagree.
You probably shouldn't put the person's orginal statement in quotes if you aren't going to make it exact, but this is what you keep doing. The person said he was a "pretty strong Christian- much like our own David Robinson." The modifiers "pretty strong" and "much like", which you keep neglecting to include, do not suggest that he's exactly like David Robinson, and the hyphen indicates that the second part of the sentence is not the primary idea being conveyed. Most of your statements in this regard since then seem to be centered around your belief that Howard is lying about his faith. Though you can't possibly know that, it hasn't stopped you from using that exact argument against others. What you've done is much closer to a definition of a strawman argument than anything I've done, and you've done it repeatedly.
Since you felt the need to PM this argument to me, just to make sure I saw it, I get the feeling that you didn't want me to stop paying attention to you. There are only so many ways I can explain how stupid your original statement was, and how incredibly biased you are, but we already know that about you by your body of work on this site. The fact that I dislike you has much more to do with what you say than who you root for. The size of my team's trophy case has nothing to do with your idiocy.
Never suggested he was a hypocrite or Christian in name only. Just objected to the David Robinson comparison. It's right there at post #57. My post before that objected to the idea that he had a moral problem with non-Christians. If you refuse to acknowledge that, I'll chalk that up to a personal vendetta than anything else.You keep suggesting that you can't know what's in someone's heart as a defense for continually suggesting that he's a hypocrite who isn't really a Christian.
You don't know more about my team than I do, and I doubt you've followed them as long as I have, which would date back to the Aguirre-Blackman-Motta days. You really should work on the haughty arrogance part, it's not merited.First of all, the only reason I know more about your team than you do is because I've been a fan of them at least as long as you have, and only stopped being a fan when Mark Cuban became the owner and took all the class out of the organization.
I didn't say it like that word for word, but that's been my argument. Pity that you would rather pick a fight than let it pass without comment.And if you'd said anything remotely as reasonable as "There's a major difference between David Robinson and Dwight Howard" I'd have been right there agreeing with you.
Check out my reply to CryHavoc. I never said that anything Dwight Howard has done doesn't make him a Christian.As judgmental as you appear to be (but only if Mark Cuban isn't involved, because we need to withhold our opinions on him until all the evidence is heard), I'm not surprised that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind when compared to an unsubstantiated report on a porn blog of a single person's account of a single incident with a photograph of two people sitting together as evidence.
You were factually wrong then ("Mavs were a contender when Cuban took over") and you're wrong now ("You're calling Howard a Christian in Name Only"). Same tune, different verse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to have the phrase "Mavericks fan owner" underneath your screenname? Aren't you the guy who treats every Mavs fan, no matter how reasonable they are, as 12 yr old girls in pink Josh Howard jerseys?I never even bothered to look at your avatar. Our first argument was you making over-generalizations based upon all Mark Cuban had done for the team, and when I took you on about it, you said that he was an improvement from Perot and I agreed. That's hardly setting me straight.
.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means
A strawman argument is responding to the argument that is easier to refute than the one the other person actually made. That's what you did here and that's what you do repeatedly.
You've refuted the argument you assigned to me, not the argument I actually made.I've explained in exhausting detail the single argument that I refuted, repeatedly.
No, I didn't. Did I edit my post? Did I delete it? I stand by what I said in post #57. I can't help it if you either have problems parsing it or you want to twist it so you can once again "put the Mavericks fan in his place" and let them know that Obstructed View "owns."You keep trying to alter what the original statement was, and what your response was to it.
But that would be boring and wouldn't give you an opportunity to pick a fight, so you did this instead.If you'd said anything less unreasonable I wouldn't have bothered to disagree.
That IS a mistake on my part, I typed it out at the end of a long reply rather than go back and copy and paste, but the substance is the same. Do you understand what paraphrasing is?You probably shouldn't put the person's orginal statement in quotes if you aren't going to make it exact, but this is what you keep doing.
Most of my statements center around responding to two original posters who claimed that Howard had a moral problem with weed smokers and was very similar to David Robinson. Partying with pornstars doesn't make him a hypocrite about his faith, it just demonstrates that he's not a prude and he doesn't have the same situational ethics as David Robinson. I suspect you can grasp this but you'd rather just argue. Posting some articles about his faith from ESPN doesn't address either of those claims. It's pretty much irrelevant.Most of your statements in this regard since then seem to be centered around your belief that Howard is lying about his faith.
Ad hominem. Excellent. And you accuse others of having no class. Translation: "I am out of rhetorical ammo and am losing the argument."idiocy....needs reading comprehension lessons...you made yet another stupid statement
Who is we? How many people do you speak for? I'm a Mavs fan on a Spurs board. The more rabid of Spurs homers here cough*OV* cough are never going to be nice or respectful to a Mavs fan, no matter what. I can live with that. That's the price I pay for coming here. There are others who like to talk hoops and NBA and are respectful as long as you don't talk smack. Which group do you think you're in?but we already know that about you by your body of work on this site
Last edited by Findog; 07-04-2007 at 03:37 PM.
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