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  1. #76
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    True.

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    Mil Med. 2007 Mar;172(3):312-7. Related Articles, Links

    The effect and safety of short-term creatine supplementation on performance of push-ups.

    Armentano MJ, Brenner AK, Hedman TL, Solomon ZT, Chavez J, Kemper GB, Salzberg D, Battafarano DF, Christie DS.

    Physical Therapy Department, Chinle Comprehensive Health Care Facility, Chinle, AZ 86503, USA.

    The effects of short-term oral creatine (Cr) supplementation on exercise performance and on blood pressure and renal function were assessed. Thirty-five healthy, active duty, U.S. Army volunteers (20 men and 15 women; age, 22-36 years) at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, supplemented their diet for 7 days with 20 g/day of either Cr or taurine (as placebo). There was no significant difference in 2-minute push-up counts between the Cr and taurine groups from before to after supplementation (p = 0.437; power = 0.98). The Cr group demonstrated a significant increase in serum creatinine levels (p < 0.001), compared with the taurine group, and this increase could be misinterpreted as impairment of renal function. No adverse changes in blood pressure, body composition, weight, or serum Cr phosphokinase levels were observed. We conclude that short-term Cr supplementation appears to be safe but does not enhance push-up performance.
    I guess it had more to do with my pysche, but while I was on creatine I noticed a significant increase in my bench press.

  2. #77
    FootballJerks.com kris's Avatar
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    You got me there. All i know is the places I read where they said it was bad for you.

    Link?? There are tons of studies that have been done that absolve creatine from deteriorating renal function. Creatinine levels in the blood are used to monitor kidney function, but just because you take the supplement doesn't mean your kidneys don't work well.

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    J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2004 Dec;44(4):411-6. R

    Is the use of oral creatine supplementation safe?

    Bizzarini E, De Angelis L.

    School of Sports Medicine, University of Trieste, Trieste, Italy.

    This review focuses on the potential side effects caused by oral creatine supplementation on gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, musculoskeletal, renal and liver functions. No strong evidence linking creatine supplementation to deterioration of these functions has been found. In fact, most reports on side effects, such as muscle cramping, gastrointestinal symptoms, changes in renal and hepatic laboratory values, remain anecdotal because the case studies do not represent well-controlled trials, so no causal relationship between creatine supplementation and these side-effects has yet been established. The only do ented side effect is an increase in body mass. Furthermore, a possibly unexpected outcome related to creatine monohydrate ingestion is the amount of contaminants present that may be generated during the industrial production. Recently, controlled studies made to integrate the existing knowledge based on anecdotal reports on the side effects of creatine have indicated that, in healthy subjects, oral supplementation with creatine, even with long-term dosage, may be considered an effective and safe ergogenic aid. However, athletes should be educated as to proper dosing or to take creatine under medical supervision.


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    J Herb Pharmacother. 2004;4(1):1-7.

    Effects of creatine supplementation on renal function.

    Yoshizumi WM, Tsourounis C.

    Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, CA., USA.

    Creatine is a popular supplement used by athletes in an effort to increase muscle performance. The purpose of this review was to assess the literature evaluating the effects of creatine supplementation on renal function. A PubMed search was conducted to identify relevant articles using the keywords, creatine, supplementation, supplements, renal dysfunction, ergogenic aid and renal function. Twelve pertinent articles and case reports were identified. According to the existing literature, creatine supplementation appears safe when used by healthy adults at the recommended loading (20 gm/day for five days) and maintenance doses (</=3 gm/day). In people with a history of renal disease or those taking nephrotoxic medications, creatine may be associated with an increased risk of renal dysfunction. One case report of acute renal failure was reported in a 20-year-old man taking 20 gm/day of creatine for a period of four weeks. There are few trials investigating the long-term use of creatine supplementation in doses exceeding 10 gm/day. Furthermore, the safety of creatine in children and adolescents has not been established. Since creatine supplementation may increase creatinine levels, it may act as a false indicator of renal dysfunction. Future studies should include renal function markers other than serum creatinine and creatinine clearance.


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    Int J Sports Med. 2005 May;26(4):307-13.

    Few adverse effects of long-term creatine supplementation in a placebo-controlled trial.

    Groeneveld GJ, Beijer C, Veldink JH, Kalmijn S, Wokke JH, van den Berg LH.

    Department of Neurology, University Medical Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands.

    Although oral creatine supplementation is very popular among athletes, no prospective placebo-controlled studies on the adverse effects of long-term supplementation have yet been conducted. We performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of creatine monohydrate in patients with the neurodegenerative disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, because of the neuroprotective effects it was shown to have in animal experiments. The purpose of this paper is to compare the adverse effects, and to describe the effects on indirect markers of renal function of long-term creatine supplementation. 175 subjects (age = 57.7 +/- 11.1 y) were randomly assigned to receive creatine monohydrate 10 g daily or placebo during an average period of 310 days. After one month, two months and from then on every fourth month, adverse effects were scored using dichotomous questionnaires, plasma urea concentrations were measured, and urinary creatine and albumin concentrations were determined. No significant differences in the occurrence at any time of adverse effects due to creatine supplementation were found (23 % nausea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group, 19 % gastro-intestinal discomfort in the creatine group, vs. 18 % in the placebo group, 35 % diarrhoea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group). After two months of treatment, edematous limbs were seen more often in subjects using creatine, probably due to water retention. Severe diarrhoea (n = 2) and severe nausea (n = 1) caused 3 subjects in the creatine group to stop intake of creatine, after which these adverse effects subsided. Long-term supplementation of creatine did not lead to an increase of plasma urea levels (5.69 +/- 1.47 before treatment vs. 5.26 +/- 1.44 at the end of treatment) or to a higher prevalence of micro-albuminuria (5.4 % before treatment vs. 1.8 % at the end of treatment).


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    I can keep going....

  3. #78
    No More Pink NorCal510's Avatar
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    those links are 2004 numbnut.

    go get something recent, and they say nothing has been proven YET.

  4. #79
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Ok big man. If it works for you it works for you.

    I bet you'll never touch 3x8 65lb dumbell curls though.

    Well I haven't been lifting seriously for too many years considering I'm 17, but at those reps I can do 40 lb dumbells (which isn't bad for weighing 150) and I have been able to for a while. I'm sure I could eventually go up to 65.


    But yeah you got me pretty good.

  5. #80
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    NorCal, BTW, you are the biggest idiot on ST.

  6. #81
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    more upper body than lower
    why?

  7. #82
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    you will pay for it later on. when you are 50, you will get arthiritis

  8. #83
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    Ok big man. If it works for you it works for you.

    I bet you'll never touch 3x8 65lb dumbell curls though.

    whats the point of curling that much?

  9. #84
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    whats the point of curling that much?
    I don't know if he's like me, but I wanna become SUPER DUPER STRONG. Plus, if you ever get in a fight having strength wouldn't hurt. I'm not getting REALLY BIG though, just strong, you know like Bruce Lee, he was strong and could curl like 70 pounds on one arm, but wasn't bulky.

  10. #85
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    i don't think creatine even works, you'd be surprised how many supplements people use that aren't doing anything for them. i think a majority of the results you get on supplements are due to people working out with more intensity and consistency.

    next time any of you want a certain supplement grab a cup, write the name of the supplement on it, fill it with water, and convince yourself its that supplement...you'll probably achieve the same results.

  11. #86
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    I don't know if he's like me, but I wanna become SUPER DUPER STRONG. Plus, if you ever get in a fight having strength wouldn't hurt. I'm not getting REALLY BIG though, just strong, you know like Bruce Lee, he was strong and could curl like 70 pounds on one arm, but wasn't bulky.
    ...but curls won't help you in a fight, and they don't really factor when one is talking about becoming super strong.

  12. #87
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    ...this thread is amazing (not in a good way).

  13. #88
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    ...but curls won't help you in a fight, and they don't really factor when one is talking about becoming super strong.
    What are you talking about? Curling builds forearm/bicep strength and endurance. When you are in a fight grabbing a hold or trying to break free, you rely a lot on forearm and bicep strength.

    Dude and you dont' even know what you are talking about there are hundreds of case studies that pit Supplemental use vs placebo use and people thought they were taking a certain supplement worked out, but didn't improve in terms of strength/mass/defenition compared to the people actively taking supplements. Pick another subject, because you dont' know what your talking about. Getting stronger/bigger/more defined has more to do with the right nutrition than just lifting weights, no matter how hard you lift you'll stay the same size if you eating the same way you always do.

    And what would you define as being strong? I'm talking about overall body strength. Curling just happens to be one of those exercises that help in the process.

  14. #89
    No More Pink NorCal510's Avatar
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    i think the average weight lifter does more upper body than lower body

    70% of my gym is upper body equipment, 30% lower body... (bally's)

  15. #90
    No More Pink NorCal510's Avatar
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    NorCal, BTW, you are the biggest idiot on ST.
    I thought we were on a truce

  16. #91
    No More Pink NorCal510's Avatar
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    No joke, I had an appointment with my doctor for something unimportant, and i asked him if creatine was okay to take just to prove to you guys that it's gonna you up. he said the protein powder is okay, more protein isn't bad. he then said he wouldn't take creatine... and to be "careful" when taking it, as in it's not GOOD for you.

  17. #92
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    i think the average weight lifter does more upper body than lower body

    70% of my gym is upper body equipment, 30% lower body... (bally's)
    b/c the majority of people that workout at those places aren't athletes. they just want to look and feel good....with chicken legs. but hey, there's nothing wrong with that....

    ...if you want to be a better athlete, stick to the power lifts such as:

    1. snatch
    2. power clean
    3. overhead squat
    4. clean & jerk
    5. muscle snatches
    6. push jerks

    and to prevent upper body injury and even out the body, i'd perform some dumbbell movements. just my 2 cents....do whatever you want.

  18. #93
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Curling builds forearm/bicep strength and endurance. When you are in a fight grabbing a hold or trying to break free, you rely a lot on forearm and bicep strength.

    Dude and you dont' even know what you are talking about there are hundreds of case studies that pit Supplemental use vs placebo use and people thought they were taking a certain supplement worked out, but didn't improve in terms of strength/mass/defenition compared to the people actively taking supplements. Pick another subject, because you dont' know what your talking about. Getting stronger/bigger/more defined has more to do with the right nutrition than just lifting weights, no matter how hard you lift you'll stay the same size if you eating the same way you always do.

    And what would you define as being strong? I'm talking about overall body strength. Curling just happens to be one of those exercises that help in the process.
    do whatever you want bro, but biceps aren't going to help you in a fight. you don't have to know much about weightlifting and nutrition to achieve results, consistency is the most important factor....just a thought.

  19. #94
    No More Pink NorCal510's Avatar
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    b/c the majority of people that workout at those places aren't athletes. they just want to look and feel good....with chicken legs. but hey, there's nothing wrong with that....

    ...if you want to be a better athlete, stick to the power lifts such as:

    1. snatch
    2. power clean
    3. overhead squat
    4. clean & jerk
    5. muscle snatches
    6. push jerks

    and to prevent upper body injury and even out the body, i'd perform some dumbbell movements. just my 2 cents....do whatever you want.
    my upperbody is proportional to my lowerbody. before i started to lift, i had big legs and a skinny chest. now it's about even.

    i don't just weightlift. i do cardio also. i'm not a .

  20. #95
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    b/c the majority of people that workout at those places aren't athletes. they just want to look and feel good....with chicken legs. but hey, there's nothing wrong with that....

    ...if you want to be a better football player, stick to the power lifts such as:

    1. snatch
    2. power clean
    3. overhead squat
    4. clean & jerk
    5. muscle snatches
    6. push jerks

    and to prevent upper body injury and even out the body, i'd perform some dumbbell movements. just my 2 cents....do whatever you want.
    Fixed.

  21. #96
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    ....thats besides the point, those lifts will help any athlete in any sport. anyway, i play a real sport.....rugby. one needs to focus on functional strength.

  22. #97
    carpe diem johngateswhiteley's Avatar
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    my upperbody is proportional to my lowerbody. before i started to lift, i had big legs and a skinny chest. now it's about even.
    so what. you should be working your lower body and core more than anything else. consider yourself lucky.

  23. #98
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    e20 is gonna get kicked in the nuts while he's thinking about how his biceps will win him a fight.

  24. #99
    We are the Championship ggoose25's Avatar
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    those links are 2004 numbnut.

    go get something recent, and they say nothing has been proven YET.
    Are you really that ing dumb?

    Why would they do any more studies on the same thing if multiple ones have all shown the same result?

    They have to say that to back their asses if some kid eats a jar one night and then says, "well, you said it was safe."

    If you take creatine as directed, and you are in good health, you will be fine.

    Just cause you are scurred to take supplements doesn't mean that some aren't safe.

  25. #100
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    Why would they do any more studies on the same thing if multiple ones have all shown the same result?
    i think you've just eliminated 98% of the scientific research community.

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