Findog, Suns have did 1 thing this year the Mavs did not.. Get out of the first round. So what if Vince hit only a clutch game winner in the first round playoffs? Vince gotten out of the first round.
Got out of the first round in the Least. Color me awestruck. How many teams has Vince led to a Finals? How many times have the Nash-Amare Suns been to a Finals?
I'll tell you one thing Vince has done that Dirk hasn't: He's tipped off the opposing team. I'd rather have Nick Fazekas than a saboteur. I'm a big Tarheel guy, have been since I was a kid, but I disown Vince. He's a ing loser.
So now Vince Carter is clutch because he went further than the Mavs ONE year out of the past 8??? How many finals appearances does VC have? Conference Finals???
He might've gone farther in the playoffs if he remembered that he's supposed to help HIS team, not the guys in different jerseys. I have yet to see one of these Vince Carter knobgobblers explain how he's clutch and a winner when he sabotages his own team. Chris in' Webber is more clutch than Vince Carter.
Getting far in the playoffs and being a clutch player does not always go hand in hand. I'm not saying that Carter is very clutch, but I have seen him make some big time clutch plays in many games. But saying that just because someone doesnt go far in the playoffs, that they arent clutch is not true. T-Mac is clutch as , but has never gotten out of the first round. Kobe without Shaq hasnt gotten past the first round, but is considered by many to be the most clutch player in the game.
Wow...allow me to introduce some fairly recent stats to the idiocy...
Looking at the last two minutes of a game only. Not totally crucial but you still need “big” shots in the final two minutes, especially if you are down or tied. And it looks like Dirk is tied for the second most game-tying or lead changing field goals in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime for 2005 thru March '07.
Most Game Tying/Lead Changing FGs, Last 2 Minutes
Player FGM
Kobe Bryant 19
Dirk Nowitzki 13
Paul Pierce 13
Mehmet Okur 13
Ben Gordon 13
Joe Johnson 12
Jason Terry 11
4 Others Tied With 11
So Dirk has connected on a decent amount of crucial shots, but let’s now look at the final shot attempt in games. So the set criteria for this will be:
4th Quarter or OT
Under 24 seconds
Team is down by 1, 2 or the game is tied
The league average in these situations since the beginning of the 2005-06 season is 31.0%, which is much lower than the league average of 45.5% in normal situations. In these “last shot” attempts Dirk is shooting 30.8% (4-for-13). So Dirk is right around the league average.
For instance, both Pau Gasol and Carmelo Anthony are a deadly 58.3% (7-for-12), while [B}Chauncey Billups is 6.7% (1-for-15) and Kobe Bryant is 18.2% (4-for-22).[/B]
So what can we learn from this, Dirk has hit some big shots down the stretch in the last couple years and when it comes to the last shot, Dirk is right around the league average for making the last shot...
That's great and all, but what stat covers over the fact that he scored 8 points in a must win game as his team got the kicked out of them and knocked out in the 1st round to an 8-seed?
I think Leonard's point is that Dirk has both come through at times and also come up short. If it's glossing over his failures to point to the Mavericks' 5-0 record in series-deciding games, Dirk playing well in four of them, as well as his performances against San Antonio and Phoenix in the playoffs, then it's equally unfair to point to Golden State without acknowledging his entire body of work. You seem to actively dislike the team you root for.
The point of the stats is for a GENERAL OVERVIEW of Dirk's late game contributions and trying to put some definition to "clutch" since everybody throws it around so much....
It also ignores the 50 points in sending the Spurs home in a game seven. Dirk has had his share of good games and bad most players have. I don't think that he is overly clutch, but I don't cringe when he takes the last shot. If a game comes down to the Mavs final shot, I will be happy with a Dirk jumper from anyplace on the floor.That's great and all, but what stat covers over the fact that he scored 8 points in a must win game as his team got the kicked out of them and knocked out in the 1st round to an 8-seed?
To me, that is clutch.
You all seem to think that its an all or nothing thing and it isn't. Most of the Spurs here will tell you that Manu is Clutch City, but we all know what he did at the end of the Dallas series (The foul and missed shot at the end). In that game he was as far from clutch as you could get ... He gets a pass because of what he has done in the past.
Dirk was about as Clutch as you could get in that game, knowing he was down, he drove and got the call and made the shots. But he doesn't get a pass ...
He is clutch, but like all players, it comes and goes.
Actually I think it was 35, 38 points against SAS in G7, he hung 50 on Phoenix in G5 of the conference finals.
Okay fine. Dirk is clutch city. in' clutch city. Any time he didn't play well, there's a great excuse for it. D-Wade missed free throws too!!!!! Golden State wasn't really an 8 seed!!!! He hit a gamewinner three years ago against Milwaukee that was in' awesome!!!!!!!!!!
Let me go in the closet and find those Mavericks pom-poms, because evidently I'm not a true fan until I start mindlessly bleating out homer views left and right.
with out raja bell and amare may i remind you. here's one more player who's more clutch than dirk..
I love the "Manu choked too!!!" excuse as well.
Guess what? When you've got three rings already, you can afford to up once in a while.
Neither one of those guys can guard Dirk. Are you in' serious?
Nobody's being a homer here. We just have longer memories than Golden State. There's only four guys I'd rather have to start a franchise than Dirk.
So I take it that your not willing to admit that "Clutch" comes and goes?
Like Miami? or Houston? or Phoenix? or Sacramento?
Or Sacramento, or Minnesota, or Portland, or Phoenix, or San Antonio, or Memphis, or Utah.
See, there's two ends of the spectrum, those that completely gloss over his failures and those that refuse to acknowledge his strengths and the good things he's done. I prefer to be in the middle and assess his game objectively.
Dude, what are you talking about? Who said he's "clutch city?" I posted stats that show he's right around the league avg in "last shots." Did you even read what I posted?
look, i'm not interested in dirk's shooting percentage when he goes up against a bunch of bumble s on the Hornets. I'm interested in what he does against San Antonio, Phoenix, Miami in the Finals, Golden State, and so on. He came up HUGE for the Mavs against the Spurs. No denying it. But overall, Dirk HAS NOT YET been a guy that you can count on to consistently bring it against top compe ion all the time.
I realize that Duncan and Ginobili and Kobe and the rest have choked before too....but they've got a track record that's FAR BETTER than the one that Dirk has.
Strawman and hyperbole alert!
hold on guys, i'm ordering my pom-poms on Amazon right now. once i get that finished i'll be back. then we can all have a circle jerk about how great Dirk was against San Antonio and just ignore that whole Miami and Golden State thing.
Given everything, I would still only take Duncan, Kobe, LeBron and Wade over Dirk if I were starting a team today and could choose anybody.
God, you must be completely miserable rooting for this team. Nobody is glossing over the last two playoff series. Put down the strawman.
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