Time Warner and NFL network still unresolved

[leemajors]

the * means the price doesn't include taxes and fees. Plus, the addition of the NFL network would give them leverage to increase the price even more.

that's fine with me, as long as it's an optional thing. i ended up saving $5 a month for adding the sports pack in 2004 (somehow).

[exstatic]

I'm not supporting the entire NFL per se, but am supporting the consumer 100% which means I must support the NFL in this case.

You peeps supporting the NFL have ing rocks in your head. You are ONLY looking at it from the POV of someone who already has cable or satellite. These were games that were on free airwave TV, so there are TONS of people who would be out more than a few bucks to see them. They would have to pay for a total cable/sat package.

Forcing the cable companies to carry this on the main tier is only step one. You can be sure that if this works, the NFL will start cherry picking the good games for PPV within a few years. Get ready for that if the NFL wins, and don't say you weren't warned.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

exstaic agree 100%.

I think the city of San Antonio got used on this one. It should have been demanded of Jones that in the contract for traing camp here in SA he must allow for this game to be broadcast locally on his silver star network or whatever that is that we see the preseason games on.

This city unilaterally supports the Cowboys and this is how we get repaid by Jones. Personally i wish the San Antonio would tell him to get lost and start talking to Benson about moving the Saints here.

San Antonio deserves its own NFL team, not to be upon by Jerry Jones.....

[2centsworth]

You peeps supporting the NFL have ing rocks in your head. You are ONLY looking at it from the POV of someone who already has cable or satellite. These were games that were on free airwave TV, so there are TONS of people who would be out more than a few bucks to see them. They would have to pay for a total cable/sat package. Forcing the cable companies to carry this on the main tier is only step one. You can be sure that if this works, the NFL will start cherry picking the good games for PPV within a few years. Get ready for that if the NFL wins, and don't say you weren't warned.

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

Basic Cable is the standard for a majority of households, especially the ones who watch the NFL. I would argue that Basic Cable is the equivalent to the old days. Nevertheless, who cares the battle is between paying extra for the NFL on a sports tier, that is surely to be $15 bucks extra a month, or keeping it on basic cable at no additional cost.

As far as the NFL is concerned, they are run by money. There's no money in PPV for the NFL compared to their current structure. We can argue that if you would like.

However, I have rocks in my head and am beneath your superior intellect, so you probably don't want to waste your time with me .

[BacktoBasics]

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

Basic Cable is the standard for a majority of households, especially the ones who watch the NFL. I would argue that Basic Cable is the equivalent to the old days. Nevertheless, who cares the battle is between paying extra for the NFL on a sports tier, that is surely to be $15 bucks extra a month, or keeping it on basic cable at no additional cost.

As far as the NFL is concerned, they are run by money. There's no money in PPV for the NFL compared to their current structure. We can argue that if you would like.

However, I have rocks in my head and am beneath your superior intellect, so you probably don't want to waste your time with me .

I agree. This is about TW wanting to charge vs. NFL Network earning advertising revenue JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHANNEL ON REGULAR CABLE DOES.

[2centsworth]

I agree. This is about TW wanting to charge vs. NFL Network earning advertising revenue JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHANNEL ON REGULAR CABLE DOES.

not only that, but the NFL believes that their product is supremely valuable to the networks and cable tv providers. Imagine if Cable had zero NFL games. How many subscribers do you think TW would have if that was the case? The NFL wants a piece of the subscriber pie, to the tune of about .65 per.

TW needs to eat it as the cost of doing business. Of course, TW wants the consumer to pay for it.

[leemajors]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.

[2centsworth]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.

Have you read any of my post? It's about money, the NFL believes they deserve a bigger piece of the pie. I don't really care if they do or if they don't, just give me those games and whatever extras at no additional cost which is what I get with Dish. Consumers should switch to Dish or another provider and get what they want, and then see how fast TW changes their tune.

btw, the NFL network offers a whole lot more than just 8 games. On Sundays my TV is plugged in to the NFL network for my fantasy football stat tracker and REDZONE coverage. IT's off the hook!!! Also, NFL combines, Training camp reports, and Thanksgiving Night Football are other additional benefits. There will be more as the Network grows.

But if you only care about the 7 games then someone needs to pay for them and it sure isn't going to be me. I don't begrudge the #1 sport for growing.

Putting them in the sports tier means pennies compared to basic cable.

[BacktoBasics]

i still don't see any reason for the NFL network to be on basic cable. it's a worthless channel outside of those 8 games. the NFL should give in a bit and let them put it in the sports tier.

The same could be said about Golf, Speed, cooking and so forth. It doesn't get much bigger than football in America and if you open up to millions of fans via a provider like TW the network can only go up.

[leemajors]

The same could be said about Golf, Speed, cooking and so forth. It doesn't get much bigger than football in America and if you open up to millions of fans via a provider like TW the network can only go up.

the food network is big business for both parties. as far as i know, golf and speed aren't part of basic cable. they show up in the sports tier just like versus and the extra FSN channels.

[BacktoBasics]

the food network is big business for both parties. as far as i know, golf and speed aren't part of basic cable. they show up in the sports tier just like versus and the extra FSN channels.

The other motorsports channel maybe not speed Its channel 49 here in corpus. Golf is on my basic tier provided I have a box. Versus is part of my basic as well. Maybe its just different here, I don't know. I've never even looked at the other FSN channels, funny how thats probably the same fear NFL network has about a tier.

More importantly The NFL Network isn't asking anymore than what is expected in comparison to other specialty channels. With the right budget and programming there isn't any reason to think that the largest most followed sport in America couldn't rival Food Network. Remember how small Food Network was years back. The potential is there but forget it if its on a pay tier. The advertising budget would shrink drastically. Severely limiting the growth of a potential powerhouse channel.

[S_A_Longhorn]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of !

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of !

Good post... Now, on top of that... They add NHLHD to their lineup?!?!?!?!?

[pooh]

First, I don't support the NFL in any way after the way they treated San Antonio after hosting the Saints in the wake of Katrina. I am rabid Cowboys fan tho. I only watch their games these days.

But those that support Time Warner are just ignorant of Time Warner's history. How soon people forget that Time Warner didn't carry Fox HD at first, and the San Antonio area did not get to see one of the recent Super Bowls in HD b/c of Time Warner. Also, this past summer, two channels were removed from basic standard cable (ESPN Classic channel 23 and GTV channel 78) and were placed on digital packages. Both of those channels REMAIN BLACK TODAY but the cost of basic standard did not go down one bit. The Outdoor network was also removed from basic standard.

No channels have been added in their place. Yet the price of the basic standard package always goes up, not down.

Time Warner is trying to screw the SA customer once again and squeezing out as much money from the SA customer.

Fortunately, there are alternatives this year with Grande, Dish Network, Direct TV, and the new (highly recommeded) AT&T U-Verse. Make the switch and get more for less $$.

Bottom line, Time Warner wants customers to pay $5-$15 for the NFL Network as part of the sports tier package to cover the $.65 cost that the NFL Network charges Time Warner.

BTW, if you have basic standard, you get the Golf Channel. I could see that useless channel in all my rooms at home, with or without a box. Why was I paying for that channel and not able to keep ESPN Classic?! Time Warner is full of !

Exactly! I couldn't have said it any better. I'm sick of all the local sportscasters here all whinning about how TWC should do this and that people should file pe ions, etc. LOOK, fact is fact. TWC wants the NFL Network, and as Longhorn said, they want to put it on their 'tier Sports Package and make you pay more (as it the over inflated price isn't enough) each month.

All you have to do is just spring for the Directv, get the basic package and you're in. You can still get the (over-rated and over hyped) NBAtv their Sports Package for an extra $10/month. But the NFL Network comes with the standard pack which is ONLY $29.99/month.

I mean c'mon people, do you want to stay with TWC cause Manu "Goes for three"? And you paid for your bobblehead and picked up their for crap phone service that isn't anything near AT&T? For those who have TWC and won't get to see the game on Thursday...tough luck, find a friend, and get a dish for Christmas.

[exstatic]

you're way off in outerspace somewhere. The battle is not between free TV or Cable. THAT BATTLE HAS BEEN LOST!!!! If that's what you're fighting, you're in the wrong thread. Maybe at the same time you should fight to keep the analog TV the standard.

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.

[fyatuk]

Not that the debate has anything to do with me (I have Grande, and its on my basic digital package), but I actually side with TW here.

If the NFL wants it on everyone's basic package, they should cut the per subscriber price by at least 1/3rd (for now, they can raise it later). Otherwise, they should let it be put on a sports tier. The only thing I've found worth watching is the NFL games (and NFL replay if I missed a game I wanted to see), and I've had the non-game programming for quite a while now.

TW actually has a point in not charging people who have no interest in it for that service. Of course, their point would be more apparent if their setup was more ala carte. TW is not going to and shouldn't have to eat that cost. It's just a matter of should everyone pay an extra $1 or just the people who actually want it. TW is already basically the most expensive service in SA...

[Extra Stout]

A few years back, Comcast offered the NFL $400 million a year for a package of Thursday night games on Comcast Sports Net. Jerry Jones led a brigade of owners who claimed the NFL could do better by offering games on its own network. So far the NFL Network package produces revenue of $250 million a year.

If the NFL lowered its per-subscriber price, this problem would disappear. NFL Network is not a full-sports network like ESPN. It is a seasonal network, and its only live games are the handful of NFL games it shows, and a couple of college games. Its $0.65/subscriber charge pales to ESPN's $3, but contrast it with CNN's $0.30.

However, if the NFL actually negotiated a price with TW rather than holding a hard line, Jerry Jones might have to admit he was wrong. And he will let the NFL lose millions, piss off hundreds of thousands of fans, even damage the NFL's media equity, before he admits that his isn't as long as he claims it is.

[S_A_Longhorn]

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.

Free TV will continue to exists as long as CBS, NBC, and ABC pay the outrageous prices for NFL programming. Monday Night Football was a ratings loser for ABC for several years, so that was moved over to ESPN, who is owned by ABC. Remember that Sunday Night Football used to be on TNT or ESPN for a long time. Now that game (the best game of the week) is now free on NBC, while MNF has moved.

Nothing has changed in the last ten years or so, except for the NFL Network. Fox, CBS, and NBC won't turn their back on the NFL, and their TV broadcast rights won't allow the NFL to broadcast too many games on the NFL Network. Notice all the games the NFL Network broadcasts are the non-traditional Sunday games, on nights (like big ratings Thursday) that the networks have higher rating programs airing.

[2centsworth]

FOX - NFC games - available over airwaves
CBS - AFC games - available over airwaves
NBC - SNF - available over airwaves
ESPN - MNF - cable/sat only

As you can see, the VAST majority of games are still available for free over the airwaves. Only MNF, one game per week, is strictly available on cable/sat. This is almost directly opposite the NBA, where almost everything national is on TNT or ESPN, with the occasional bone thrown to ABC.

yes available over the airwaves, but how do you access those channels? right, just like the majority of others. Basic cable is the standard.

[2centsworth]

A few years back, Comcast offered the NFL $400 million a year for a package of Thursday night games on Comcast Sports Net. Jerry Jones led a brigade of owners who claimed the NFL could do better by offering games on its own network. So far the NFL Network package produces revenue of $250 million a year.

If the NFL lowered its per-subscriber price, this problem would disappear. NFL Network is not a full-sports network like ESPN. It is a seasonal network, and its only live games are the handful of NFL games it shows, and a couple of college games. Its $0.65/subscriber charge pales to ESPN's $3, but contrast it with CNN's $0.30.

However, if the NFL actually negotiated a price with TW rather than holding a hard line, Jerry Jones might have to admit he was wrong. And he will let the NFL lose millions, piss off hundreds of thousands of fans, even damage the NFL's media equity, before he admits that his isn't as long as he claims it is.

Yes, the NFL could be wrong in this situation. It shouldn't matter for the consumer. WE should DEMAND the Network be available at no additional cost. Otherwise, switch! If you side with a company to raise your cost, and then you guys get what you deserve.

I'll be in the comfort of my own home chillin and watching the game.

[Extra Stout]

Yes, the NFL could be wrong in this situation. It shouldn't matter for the consumer. WE should DEMAND the Network be available at no additional cost. Otherwise, switch! If you side with a company to rise your cost, and then you guys get what you deserve.

I'll be in the comfort of my own home chillin and watching the game.

I have DIRECTV, so it's no skin off my back.

However, prior to the creation of NFL Network, the Cowboys-Packers game would have been available throughout Texas, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin over the air. It is the NFL that took this game off the air, not TW or Comcast. The games are the NFL's products, not those of TW or Comcast.

The NFL is trying to create a multibillion-dollar asset in NFLN by leveraging the popularity of its broadcasts. The big cable providers, who run their own sports networks, want to use their leverage in controlling availability in order to acquire a piece of that pie.

We'll see who wins.

[Extra Stout]

Oh, my number for what ESPN charges is wrong. It should be $0.70, not $3. $3 may be what they would charge for all the ESPN channels combined.

So, $0.70 for a network that carries MNF, NBA games, MLB games, major college football and basketball, and SportsCenter, versus $0.65 for a network that televises eight NFL games a year, and what, NFL Total Access? Seriously?

[2centsworth]

Oh, my number for what ESPN charges is wrong. It should be $0.70, not $3. $3 may be what they would charge for all the ESPN channels combined.

So, $0.70 for a network that carries MNF, NBA games, MLB games, major college football and basketball, and SportsCenter, versus $0.65 for a network that televises eight NFL games a year, and what, NFL Total Access? Seriously?

I heard $3, but if it's .70 then the NFL wants too much. Again, not our problem.
It's the TW saps who somehow want to involve themselves way too much in this fight. Just switch. Who cares what TW has to pay, as long as it's not the consumer. If they can't survive in that type of compe ive market, and then tough others will.

[maxpower]

I have to side with the NFL...begrudgingly(well I have dish)....but the fact of the matter is, TW will look for any reason to raise their revenue at the customer's expense. They claim they would have to raise prices to include the NFLN outside the sports tier. However do they lower their prices when they remove channels? Why do they have second rate sports channels outside of the sports tier but want to use the number one American sport to raise subscription to it's sports tier? In the Sports Channel Mall NFLN would be an anchor store along with ESPN and Fox Sports.

[Extra Stout]

I have to side with the NFL...begrudgingly(well I have dish)....but the fact of the matter is, TW will look for any reason to raise their revenue at the customer's expense. They claim they would have to raise prices to include the NFLN outside the sports tier. However do they lower their prices when they remove channels? Why do they have second rate sports channels outside of the sports tier but want to use the number one American sport to raise subscription to it's sports tier? In the Sports Channel Mall NFLN would be an anchor store along with ESPN and Fox Sports.

Re: the bolded

And how is that not also what the NFL is doing?

Bottom line: rich people are fighting over who gets to rake in your cash, and you're being held hostage over it. The NFL are the drug lords who got you hooked on their drug, they know you'll go crazy and froth at the mouth if you don't get your fix, and now they're squeezing the dealers on the street on price, while the dealers are trying to squeeze the drug lords because they want to be the lords.