Parker is firing 3's in France all the way!!!

[mathbzh]

His ability to get past his man and into the paint is a more potent weapon than his jumpshot, and he himself knows it as well. I guess I don't see why he would need to keep shooting the J when he knows his game doesn't necessarily depend on it.

I agree with most of your argument but not totaly with this one.
Back in the pre-CHIP time, Team were able to deny access to the paint to Tony (when they focused on this). He was already very good in the paint but not yet deadly. In these games (or series) he needed another weapon. So when he was opened he took the J... without much success when he was cold.
In 05-06 he overcome this problem
I believe the only reason why Tony need a J is to force teams to defend high on him.

[anakha]

I agree with most of your argument but not totaly with this one.
Back in the pre-CHIP time, Team were able to deny access to the paint to Tony (when they focused on this). He was already very good in the paint but not yet deadly. In these games (or series) he needed another weapon. So when he was opened he took the J... without much success when he was cold.
In 05-06 he overcome this problem
I believe the only reason why Tony need a J is to force teams to defend high on him.

Yeah, you make a good point here.

The difference then in Tony's effectiveness against different teams was how successfully they would be able to keep him out of the paint. Should they be able to do so effectively, that's when he would need his J to be on to stretch out the defense.

It was no secret even before that Tony was first and foremost a slasher, so all opposing teams wanted to take that away from him. Some were more successful than others, some failed miserably at it.

My main argument against your point would probably be that situations where Tony was effectively shut out of the paint and had to exclusively rely on his J were the minority in both the 04 and 05 seasons, compared to situations where Tony would still find ways to the rim despite the opposing team knowing his strength and taking steps to work against that. More often than not, he would still be able to play to his strength.

To sum it up, he would need his J as his main weapon only on a situational basis, while his bread and butter (and always should be his first option, scoring-wise) would be his ability to get to the rim.

[TheAuthority]

How about learning to feed Timmy on the pick and roll like Nash does to Amare?

[SAGambler]

If TP can just hit a couple of 3s a game, and start averaging about 8 - 10 assists, he is going to become the premier point in the game, and be high on the list for MVP.

I just look forward to Tony picking up his game and getting better and better every year. I just hate the day will probably come when we no longer have Tony. But until then, I'll just sit back and enjoy watching him eat up defenses around the league.

[bigfish22]

NBA Dimensions




Fiba Dimensions





Fiba v NBA
Length of game
Fiba: 4 x 10 minutes
NBA: 4 x 12 minutes
Court dimensions
Fiba: 28m x 15m
NBA: 28.65m x 15.24m
Three-point line
Fiba: 6.25m
NBA: 7.24m
Number of referees
Fiba: Two
NBA: Three
Second clock
Fiba: 30 seconds
NBA: 24 seconds
Fouls permitted
Fiba: Five per player
NBA: Six per player
Timeouts allowed
Fiba: Five per game
2 in 1st half; 3 in 2nd half
NBA: Seven per game

[SpursIndonesia]

i think you and every other Parker Nosers should remember this was THE FIRST Finals series he actually appeared from the three rings he has... have everyone forgotten hoe BADLY he was benched by Claxton on 2003 and his mid-level series against Detroit where manu had to handle the ball more than ever?
this series was great yes... but you should be a lil bit more careful...

So what ? Parker nosers are sure as not having bigger noses than Ginobili nosers.

[z0sa]

You really are full of sunshine and rainbows today, aren't you? Chill.

Always.

(shrugs) I gave the exact same phrase "more a question of shooting mechanics" in my first reply, so I don't really see what you're getting at here.

It wasn't a question of confidence,

Do your own fingers lie? You say it was "more" of a mechanics issue, but you say it in the type of way, especially following this quote, that implies it is "completely based upon mechanics." Of course, I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's the way you make it seem.

When you first posted on this thread, the phrasing of your argument didn't include Chip in any way. My reply involving shooting mechanics (and Chip's subsequent changes to them) was based on that first reply.

You know, I could also say that you changed your story by adding the pre-Chip qualifier to your argument only after Freeze's and my reply, but that would just be quibbling.

ahem ... I thought it was clear whenever I said he regained confidence in his jumpshot, that obviously it had come from the tremendous practice he had put into it WITH CHIP. I think that pretty much goes without saying, in fact. So in other words, I simply referred to Chip as any spur fan would. I don't need to mention him and TP's shot in every other sentence so everyone understands I'm talking about their correlation; why you ask? because everyone associates the two. So in fact, that wouldn't be quibbling, itd simply be stupid.

Okay, let me clarify my argument (and just because I like debates):

What I'm getting at is that Tony's shot, because of his faulty mechanics, can lead him on some VERY hot and cold streaks, which can last for several games straight. Early in the 04-05 season (if I remember correctly), that was such the case, where his FG%s were REALLY down for the first two weeks of the season.

Agreed, but I think the hot streaks would last a while at first, then becoming shorter and shorter until finally, his confidence completely diminished in 04-05 pretty much throughout the season.

Call it an unsound argument, if you will, but I think his performance after games 1 & 2 of the Lakers series was mostly a bad cold streak.

So a whole season more or less was one long cold streak? In a way, I agree, but not in those terms: he had simply lost his confidence. Not hard to understand after being raised up as possible HOF in the first two games of the Lakers series, and then taking the heap of blame for the next four.

The reason I brought up the FGA numbers is that part of my assertion is that his perimeter shot attempts have been relatively consistent, regardless of whether his shot is on or not. For me, that sounds like a player who, regardless of his stroke being on or not, feels he can make his outside shots. That doesn't sound like a confidence issue to me.

Man, I've already explained my arguments and why they are right to you, so let me explain again: this was primarily POP's FAULT. He didn't tell Tony to stop shooting; Tony eventually started getting the picture himself, towards the end of the season, and so did Pop.

Yeah, I get your point here. It's cool.

My main issue here is that - shooting oneself back to rhythm is more the domain of players whose skillsets and roles revolve around outside shooting. That's never been Tony's role on this team, and he doesn't depend on his outside shooting as his main offensive weapon.

Going back to my main point above - the way I see it, he still takes those shots because he sees them as makeable, not because he feels he needs to get back into a shooting rhythm.

Tony considered himself a transition three-taking highstepping spotup shooting badass more or less his first few years; I remember Pop used to light his ass up not just a few times a game. He considered himself a shooter; finally he learned the hard way in 04 that he was not, and thus ended his confidence in that certain ability.

If it really was more of a confidence issue, I'd say he would have cut down on his outside shots even before he was redlighted by Pop.

Which, if you recall correctly, he did. Pop caught it second to Parker.

His ability to get past his man and into the paint is a more potent weapon than his jumpshot, and he himself knows it as well now.

Fixed -- he used to think he could hit the jumpshot and drive the lane, when he could really only do one of those.

[anakha]

Do your own fingers lie? You say it was "more" of a mechanics issue, but you say it in the type of way, especially following this quote, that implies it is "completely based upon mechanics." Of course, I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's the way you make it seem.

Ah, I see what you were getting at. That's the main issue with text-based arguments or debates - people really have to take everything written down literally, and misphrasing or leaving something out can have many implications. I should have phrased that better.

ahem ... I thought it was clear whenever I said he regained confidence in his jumpshot, that obviously it had come from the tremendous practice he had put into it WITH CHIP. I think that pretty much goes without saying, in fact. So in other words, I simply referred to Chip as any spur fan would. I don't need to mention him and TP's shot in every other sentence so everyone understands I'm talking about their correlation; why you ask? because everyone associates the two. So in fact, that wouldn't be quibbling, itd simply be stupid.

See above. What I argued against earlier is what was first written explicitly, and while your point stands, more often than not in these written formats, everything does have to be spelled out to avoid confusion.

Oh well.

So a whole season more or less was one long cold streak? In a way, I agree, but not in those terms: he had simply lost his confidence. Not hard to understand after being raised up as possible HOF in the first two games of the Lakers series, and then taking the heap of blame for the next four.

True, the Lakers series was really an extreme case of fortunes for Tony. But I really don't think he was so weak mentally as to let it affect his game for a whole season. He's not exactly Nick Anderson.

Agree to disagree on this one, I guess.

Man, I've already explained my arguments and why they are right to you, so let me explain again: this was primarily POP's FAULT. He didn't tell Tony to stop shooting; Tony eventually started getting the picture himself, towards the end of the season, and so did Pop.

Tony considered himself a transition three-taking highstepping spotup shooting badass more or less his first few years; I remember Pop used to light his ass up not just a few times a game. He considered himself a shooter; finally he learned the hard way in 04 that he was not, and thus ended his confidence in that certain ability.

Okay, I see what you're getting at here as well. It's just that I have a hard time reconciling that image of Tony losing confidence in his shot after the 04 playoffs with the similar number of perimeter shots he ended up taking between 04 and 05.

While it may be possible that he ended up taking less and less as the season wore on, would you be able to give me an example of games that would be able to explicitly show that his perimeter attempts (let's use 3FGA here to make it simpler) decreased as the season progressed?

[z0sa]

tbh, I'm bored with this certain topic, simply because its a moot point. TP has regained his confidence, hes hitting perimeter jumpers with reckless abandon, and he has matured as a player and perhaps, as a leader.

But when I say this, I still believe TP being the number 1 offensive option, now with the perimeter jumper too, could make his ego a little too large ... I'm hoping it doesn't.

[anakha]

tbh, I'm bored with this certain topic, simply because its a moot point. TP has regained his confidence, hes hitting perimeter jumpers with reckless abandon, and he has matured as a player and perhaps, as a leader.

But when I say this, I still believe TP being the number 1 offensive option, now with the perimeter jumper too, could make his ego a little too large ... I'm hoping it doesn't.

Amen to that.

Damn, even the preseason games can't come soon enough.