"this is a dirty list" - Amare
FD can't be louis, he hasn't used the term "mermaid" yet.
Sorted by per 48 mins - Kobe is 12 and Manu is 17 so it is a lot closer than the per game stats.
In this age of salary caps, Manu's efficiency per contract dollar serves the Spurs much better than Kobe would.
Considering the people the Spurs would either have to get rid of or be unable to retain while burdened by Kobe's salary, I'd take Manu 100 times out of 100.
Than you my friend are an idiot.....you put Kobe, Parker and TD you don't lose.....
Trying to compare a bench player who has had probably one decent all-star calibre year to the second best SG in the history of the game is laughable at best. I hear all of....well Manu is a better teammate, Kobe's too selfish blahblabh....replace Manu and Kobe on this laker team and where do they go when their star SG Manu can't even play 40 min's per game without getting hurt.....I'm sure he can be a good team guy in the locker room, even though they'd lose 60 games. Man this is hillarious, still I guess I had it coming.....You saw how Kobe deferred his game during the 3 peat when Shaq dominated the ball...you saw how Kobe played on the USA team, playing solid D, playing within himself.....
....and to the guy that compared Barbosa's stats to Kobe's during Fiba's needs to have get his money back from that botched lobotomy job....
Let's also throw per 48 minute stats....pure garbage...if Manu can play at a high level for more than 40 minutes like he shows sometimes, than he's on par with Kobe's average games at best.
Stop the insanity, please.....
I highly doubt whether Kobe can be sucessful outside of lakers. He is what he is now because he is a laker.
In contrast, Manu is a winner in different situations, even he came off bench.
In addiiton, 'manu cannot play 40 min.' is a joke.
Last edited by meta2007; 09-25-2007 at 10:36 AM.
First off, you know Manu isn't a bench player, and the fact that you'd stretch the truth to try to make your case proves that it isn't as strong as you'd like. Funny that you'd credit Kobe for deferring his game to Shaq, but Manu gets no credit for doing the same with Duncan, though he's achieved the exact same success.
Actually, Barbosa had better stats than Kobe for the tournament. Not exactly a convincing case to be made that Kobe's the #1 FIBA player, which is exactly what you said. The fact that he's number one in your heart or on your bedspread doesn't mean much in the real world, where Manu has won a gold medal and was named tournament MVP.
Is Kobe more talented? Sure. Is he more athletic? No doubt. Does he score more points? Of course. Wake me when Kobe isn't so busy playing within himself that he shows up and wins a playoff series without Shaq to bail him out. Just because he walks and talks like Jordan doesn't make him Jordan.
Oh...and he also plays better D than Manu, can play the entire game at a high level and had multiple years as the best SG in the world. Now you're still comparing Barbosa's stats to Kobe's....what about that head to head game they played in Fiba...also look at the fricken minutes Barbosa played in the tournament compared to Kobe. You put Kobe on that Brazil team with him playing heavy minutes and you have an entirely different story....once again...you compare 2 bench players Barbosa and Manu to Kobe....too funny.
Oh, I love Manu, stated this numerous times on this forum, but he can't consistently hold a candle to Kobe. He defin ely gets kudos from me for helping the spurs and is part of a great team with a great system. You put him as the star and only option on a NBA team, and they would be bottom dwellers every year. Why can't any of you people see this.
Oh, and you must of not watched those games when it was Kobe bailing shaq out during the playoffs versus your mighty spurs.
I cannot see why Kobe is that great as you think. After Shaq left, he never passed the 1st round.
In fact, I don't think you know Kobe very well. Otherwise, you should have known that Kobe not only wants a ring, more importantly, he wants a MVP award. In other words, he wants to win a le under his leading. Spurs is not a right team for him. He has 3 rings already, and won't be willing to do anything just for a ring. This is the reason why he wanted to be traded to Bulls this summer. Bulls is a good team and no superstar now. In addition, Bulls in east, it is much easier for him to get into finals.
BWT, without a doubt, Manu has ability to be a starter. But for the whole team, he is willing to come off bench. This is one reason why I respect him so much!
Like I said I respect Manu....great team guy for all I know...
Show me another 1 man all-star team in the West doing any better than Kobe.
You sir, took the words right out of my mouth.
You don't need the best SG in the world (and his max contract) to win. In the grand scheme of basketball, having the best guard is not as important as having a dominant front court. At the #2 guard, the disparity of talent between a replacement level player and the best is not as significant as it would be with the big men. If you have a Duncan or Shaq, you don't necessarily need Kobe. What you need are role players better than Medvedenko and Pargo.
I wouldn't seriously debate that Manu>Kobe in terms of pure basketball talent/skills, but Manu's contract and efficiency make him more valuable to a championship team than Kobe.
Actually, Hollinger's statistical analysis demonstrates that the Lakers' problem is not Kobe's teammates, but the entire team's decision to file for conscientious objector status on defense.
As Kobe's fan, you should go to Bulls' forum to promote him.
Um, Manu's won a gold medal and three NBA les in that same time. Hopefully that "best SG in the world" trophy keeps Kobe warm at night.
Again, when Kobe has stats to back up your claim that he's the "#1 player in FIBA", or at least something more than a win in the Americas tournament that Manu didn't even bother to show up for, let me know.
I love Kobe, he's a great scorer and an incredible athlete. He's fun to watch and he can light it up like nobody I've ever seen, but he can't consistently hold a candle to Manu. He definitely gets kudos from me for helping the Lakers when they had Shaq and dismantled a great team with a great system. You put him on a team loaded with playoff performers, and he might win, otherwise his teams are going to be lucky to make the playoffs relying on him. Why can't you see this.
Oh, and you must not have watched those games when it was Manu showing up to bail the team out during championship runs, even those versus your mighty Kobe.
I have great respect for Manu.....just can't compare him....
I guess Scola is better than Dwight Howard and Amare as he had better stats.....
If Scola can translate his games to NBA, and win les with Rockets. Why not?
Honestly, I don't think Dwight or Amare is very good in low post. From FIBA Americans, I can exactly see why Shaq said that Duncan, Yao, and himself are the best men in low post.
Last edited by meta2007; 09-25-2007 at 08:50 PM.
Where's parker?
LOL at kobe being the 2nd greatest SG in NBA history. He has never won a RS or Finals MVP. While he is a great all around baller, Kobe's limitations are mental, and at the highest level that is a big part of what separates the men from the boys. At this point in his career Kobe is Dominique Wilkins. The question will continue to be whether Kobe is more concerned with winning a Championship or another scoring le.
wait a sec... is anyone really arguing that Manu is better than Kobe?? are people that delusional? I mean, perhaps if you take into account salary/talent, as in Manu provides more bang for the buck sort of speak. However, in a straight out comparison between the two, Kobe is the better one by far.
Manu is my favorite player, but anyone that has seen him play the last two seasons knows that Manu gets shut down far too often. It is as if the league caught on to his methods and figured out how to counter. 2005 Manu seems a far away memory right now, and the only way you can even begin to compare Manu to Kobe is by remembering how Manu was back then.
I still have hope though, against my better judgment, that Manu will remember how to play ball like we know he can.
kobe is great. he can score. he can steal. he can defend. he can shoot. he can dunk. he can do everything.
unfortunately, basketball is a team sport. right now, he is invaluable to his team. but his team would benefit more if kobe's contract was somewhere else. they could then afford *five* good players instead of having one incredible player and four *others*.
manu on the other hand, is an extremely good team player. he has all the skills kobe has, but you won't catch manu forcing a three-ball if somebody else has a better position to shoot. maybe that's why people think manu is less skilled than kobe. manu doesn't have to have the ball all the time. he doesn't have to score all the time. he doesn't have to run all the plays all the time.
the argument here is that kobe is more efficient than manu. i don't think so. kobe plays so many minutes where he has the ball. not his teammates. you'd think that since he creates so many points during those minutes it automatically makes him an efficient player. but manu doesn't have to play like that since he has other options available to him. he can pass the ball. kobe on the other hand, can pass to....
moneywise, manu is better than kobe. skillwise, i'd like to think of them as being equal. teamplay and chemistry-wise, manu is better than kobe. and as for efficiency. who makes the most out of his resources? manu does. kobe, not as much.
so. if you base your arguments on the past season, manu>kobe (for efficiency). if you base your arguments on the past FIBA season, there can be no comparison. manu didn't even play, and kobe played with people he will never play with in the NBA.
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magnusdrakenkrauss
How is playing out of control and making passes to charter members called efficiency?
Uh, am I missing something?
you are missing brains
I agree with most of this. Except with the bolded part. How can you say they are equal skillwise. I mean the only way this whole comparison makes any sense is by taking into account what Manu brings for the amount he gets paid. Kobe is the more skilled of the two
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