Panathinaikos Ponderings ....

[ChumpDumper]

I know waiving Beno is a nonstarter from a salary cap standpoint, but otherwise I just don't want that guy around anymore. Give Washington a nonguaranteed deal and work him in Austin until he "gets it" or someone better comes on the radar. It would be better had there not been such a huge talent drain from the D-League over the summer, but someone always seems to rise to a decent enough level to take a chance on during the season.

[picnroll]

Went to the game and sat pretty close to the floor. My impressions:

Udoka really impresed me. He's going to get a lot of minutes off Barry, Finley or both. He's much better, more naturla offensive palyer than Bowen. Hit a couple of nice quick Js with a guy in his face.

Mahinimi. Not so much. Athletic, fearless yeah. Add fairly clueless too. Was real aggresive leaving his man for some easy looks or his man getting behind him for dunks. He's supposed to be a fast learner so he better get learing. That one outside J he hit, don't expect a lot of those if warmups was an indications. I watched him warming up, particularly at half, and he was consistently bricking short Js just outside the paint.

Williams. First time I've really watched him. Unlike timvp I think he's definitely showed some good moments. He had a couple of bad/stupid turnovers but from lack of attention. He didn't shoot well around the basket but he got to the basket and he has some good dribbling ability, nice cross over with those long arms that can be developed. Great rebounder with some real nice instincts for reading the ball. Good passer. Good defender. Definitely worth keeping and working with. He showed more IQ to me than Ian.

Bonner. A bit disappointed. Didn't really make an impac. In the battle of Greece it looks like it was Scola > Bonner.

Barry looked aggressive and confident. Hope it's not just because it's pre-season with nothing on the line.

Washingon, Lever, Clang, etc. hope you enjoyed your trip to the riverwalk.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think the knicks have 17 on there roster

say if malik rose is going to get cut, would the spurs give him another go?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

C OBERTO/ELSON
PF DUNCAN/BONNER/HORRY
SF BOWEN/UDOKA
SG MANU/FINLEY/BARRY
PG PARKER/VAUGHN

IR1: DARIUS
IR2: MARCUS
IR3: IAN

Then in some points during the season when Horry gets a rest and the Spurs feel like giving some of the guards a rest too we can see some Ian, Darius, and Marcus in the regular season.

I feel really good about this season.

[E20]

Where did this notion come from that Matt Bonner is a 3? Hes way to slow...

Is Bonner a traditional PF/C? I wouldn't think so. He has no post prescense or post game. He hovers around the free-throw line extended area or beyond the arc, mainly jumpshooting/threes. I think the main reason Spurs signed a 6-10 guy like Bonner is to free up the lane of the opponents PF/C for TD to have more workspace and for Parker/Ginobili to have easier time of penetration, so far I haven't seen that. Bonner plays more like a SF than he does PF/C.

[Spurs Brazil]

-The Spurs crowd, even considering it's a preseason crowd, was pretty pathetic. I've seen more fans at a preseason WNBA game. The arena was about 40% of capacity at most.

Look at the Attendance on the box score: 17,144

Where all this people??

[Kori Ellis]

Look at the Attendance on the box score: 17,144

Where all this people??

There's was probably 9,000 people there

[timvp]

Went to the game and sat pretty close to the floor. My impressions:

Udoka really impresed me. He's going to get a lot of minutes off Barry, Finley or both. He's much better, more naturla offensive palyer than Bowen. Hit a couple of nice quick Js with a guy in his face.

I actually didn't like him taking those shots. I think he has to show better shot selection than shooting when he's being tightly guarded. In the Spurs' offense, there's really no need to take a contested jumper with time on the shot clock. Defensively though, I was really impressed with how well he understands the Spurs' system after just a couple weeks.

Mahinimi. Not so much. Athletic, fearless yeah. Add fairly clueless too. Was real aggresive leaving his man for some easy looks or his man getting behind him for dunks. He's supposed to be a fast learner so he better get learing. That one outside J he hit, don't expect a lot of those if warmups was an indications. I watched him warming up, particularly at half, and he was consistently bricking short Js just outside the paint.

Clueless is a given for a Spurs' big. Nazr was clueless his whole time here. Elson still looks pretty clueless when it comes to defensive rotations. I didn't expect a 20-year-old guy who has barely played at any level to come in and not look like a fish out of water when it comes to understanding the schemes.

I was impressed with his raw tools and his demeanor. If it took a guy like Horry half a season to learn the schemes, I was prepared for Mahinmi to look clueless ... but I understand what you mean. I just have a hard time holding that against him at this point.

I do agree the jumper he made didn't look like it'd become part of his natural repertoire.

Williams. First time I've really watched him. Unlike timvp I think he's definitely showed some good moments. He had a couple of bad/stupid turnovers but from lack of attention. He didn't shoot well around the basket but he got to the basket and he has some good dribbling ability, nice cross over with those long arms that can be developed. Great rebounder with some real nice instincts for reading the ball. Good passer. Good defender. Definitely worth keeping and working with. He showed more IQ to me than Ian.

That was probably the best Williams has played. You saw him at his peak. I think playing against the 6-foot-2 slow backup Euro small forwards helped him out. For example, that's why his ability to drive to the basket seemed to be better than it really is. Even then, he still had a lot of ugly plays.

His rebounding has been pretty good. That's the one thing I've liked about him from the beginning. Defense has been inconsistent but I do like that he tries on that end of the court. But again, he looked good defensively going up against overmatched players.

That said, going 2-for-7 with some blown layups and some ugly plays against bad compe ion isn't exactly enough for me to forget all the bad I've seen out of him in the last couple months.

Bonner. A bit disappointed. Didn't really make an impac. In the battle of Greece it looks like it was Scola > Bonner.

Did you noticed the increased athleticism? I thought Bonner was moving and jumping much better.

Barry looked aggressive and confident. Hope it's not just because it's pre-season with nothing on the line.

Agree on both counts.

Washingon, Lever, Clang, etc. hope you enjoyed your trip to the riverwalk.

Yeah, Washington is the best out of the group and he really isn't something overly special. I think he could score in the Spurs system and become a pretty good defender. But really, his chances of making the team has to be around 2% due to Beno's guaranteed contract.

Williams looks to be safe because there's no one to compete against him. I do think he's lucky that the Air Force kept Nwaelele away from Spurs' camp. Nwaelele would have had a good shot at beating out Williams and making the team.


P.S.
Nice job on your write-up

[picnroll]

I actually didn't like him taking those shots.

One of those shots was with no time on the shot clock and i think the other one was pretty close, no time to pass and have the other guy have time to do anything but can't remember for sure. Thing is to me it looks like he ahas enough offensive skills that Spurs can get away with Manu, Parker, Bowen he and Duncan on the floor together in small ball and he can still get something done on O. If he was strictly a Bowen clone offensively that would put to a lot of pressure on Duncan, Manu and Parker.

Bonner did look more athletic, definitely quicker moved his feet on D but he didn't make his mark, particularly in O.

It wasn't Scola or Bonner choice. Scola was the price it took to dump Butler and that money had to go but I still have a bad feeling about how that trade is going to work out.

[whottt]

You guys are lame with the Barry folds underpressure comments...

That's not when he does it...that's not why he does it.

He's stepped up in some big games and you guys just flat out refuse to give him credit for the times he's done so.

He's played great in what could be described as some of the biggest games of his career, and some of the biggest games of the Spurs season, and played lousy in someflat out meaningless games...

But go ahead and say it's the pressure...that ship will sink....

And don't bother showing up to admit error when he actually disproves that...no sense doing that now...

[picnroll]

You guys are lame with the Barry folds underpressure comments...

That's not when he does it...that's not why he does it.

He's stepped up in some big games and you guys just flat out refuse to give him credit for the times he's done so.

He's played great in what could be described as some of the biggest games of his career, and some of the biggest games of the Spurs season, and played lousy in someflat out meaningless games...

But go ahead and say it's the pressure...that ship will sink.

Barry has had some big moments but not nearly consistently enough. When he came from Seatlle, based on how he'd played there I expected him to be on in 75% of the games as an impact player. Turned out to be now and then.

[whottt]

Barry has had some big moments but not nearly consistently enough. When he came from Seatlle, based on how he'd played there I expected him to be on in 75% of the games as an impact player. Turned out to be now and then.

He doesn't get used like he was used in Seattle...

[whottt]

I've seen Barry play his best basketball in games where he was getting smacked around....

I've seen him knock down huge shots on the road, when no one else on the team was playing particularly well, in the playoffs, and I've seem him hit game winners/or tiers in the playoffs...

You don't turn that sort of thing on and off...you either can do it, or you can't...and Barry can do it. Whatever his problems are...it's not that he folds underpressure...and it's bad/lazy analysis to make that claim.

[picnroll]

He doesn't get used like he was used in Seattle...

So who you going to blame Pop for not changing the way the Spurs play to accomodate Barry or Barry not being able to adjust and contribute in the Spurs' style of play?

[picnroll]

I've seen Barry play his best basketball in games where he was getting smacked around....

I've seen him knock down huge shots on the road, when no one else on the team was playing particularly well, in the playoffs, and I've seem him hit game winners/or tiers in the playoffs...

You don't turn that sort of thing on and off...you either can do it, or you can't...and Barry can do it. Whatever his problems are...it's not that he folds underpressure...and it's bad/lazy analysis to make that claim.

To me Barry plays best when he plays aggressively and confidently like any player but unlikely some like Manu who can up four times in a row and remain aggressive and confident Barry s up once and shrinks. Jack had that ability to up and move on in spades, maybe too many spades. Hedo didn't. Barry doesn't. Manu does.

[whottt]

Because when Barry s up his ass gets put on the bench and gets dropped to the back of the rotation...


IF you guys want to claim Barry freaks out over PT I'll concede the point....

He's insecure about his rotation spot....not the game situation.


And that's a reason why it's a bad idea to try and get a player to change his game...once you get them out of their game, they can't be agressive...because they are on uncertain ground, and also, while they may have an idea of what changes you want them to make...they probably don't have the big picture.

[whottt]

So in answer to your question...

It's the coaches job to maximize the talents of the players, not the players job to change into a different player....

If you are a coach and your best player goes down....you know, the guy the team is built around...

You can beat that dead horse all you want...and tell guys they need to play better, but ultimately, it's going to fail...

And the great coaches in any sport, were the guys who could adjust to the strenghts of their players.



Barry is one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA...even when you guys say he's sucked...

He's usually lead the team in 2 or 3 offensive categories...





Last year he was #1 in the entire NBA in true shooting PCT...
He lead the Spurs in virtually every shooting category.


His first year here he lead the team in 2pt PCT and adjust FG% as well as assist to to ratio....


Ok so he sucks and overthinks when he's asked to do nothing more than stand there and spot up for threes...

Then stop asking him to do that...and run a couple of plays for him...

Because when he's playing good...our offense freaking rolls and we blow teams out.

[picnroll]

Barry also has the disadvantage of not being a strong defender. Pop will only tolerate weak defense and getting beat in assignment for so long. The Spurs whole game plan centers around defensive execution. Ultimately Barry was maybe just a bad choice to bring in. Maybe Pop thought he could make Barry a better defender than he actually could. But Barry also hangs his head on offense when he misses shots or makes bad plays. Pop will tolerate some of that. More than Barry will tolerate in himself.

[whottt]

In 1990...the Giants won a Superbowl...they had a team built around a strong running game, the high pct drop back passing of Phil Simms...and a tough d...

Phil Simms went down late in that season and his backup Jeff Hostetler, was not a not a classsic drop back passer...he was a scrambler...

Did Bill Parcells sit there and try and change Hostetler into a drop back passer? Or did he set his offense up to maximize the talents of his QB?

He changed...he didn't force the player to change.


What has Pat Riley done in making himself the only coach to take 3 different teams to the Finals?


He's adjusted to the strenghts of his players...they were all 3 completely different teams. That played completely different styles of ball.




And you guys act like I'm asking the Spurs to to retool their entire offensive playbook just so Barry will be comfortable...

I'm saying just run a couple of plays for him...you don't have to change anything about our offense...it makes him more confident, and then he does better at the spot up shooting.


We paying him 5 million dollars a year....would make sense to try and get the most out of that money. And that's a of a lot of money to pay a spot up shooter...

[whottt]

Barry also has the disadvantage of not being a strong defender. Pop will only tolerate weak defense and getting beat in assignment for so long. The Spurs whole game plan centers around defensive execution. Ultimately Barry was maybe just a bad choice to bring in. Maybe Pop thought he could make Barry a better defender than he actually could. But Barry also hangs his head on offense when he misses shots or makes bad plays. Pop will tolerate some of that. More than Barry will tolerate in himself.

That's exactly it right there...

That's what it was with Kerr too....


Those guys know that Pop doesn't really want them on the court...he wants his defensive guys to be the ones who suceed...that is an external pressure created by Pop...

Everyone knows he basically thinks offensive only players are garbage...including those players.


Which is why it was a bad idea to sign Barry...


That falls under the category of trying to change the player into something he's not...and you are never going to get a confident player out of that.


Barry's intentions in coming were pure...he came here for a ring...

The Spurs intentions in signing him were not pure...they didn't like his game, they wanted it to be something different.


Still...2 les in 3 years...things could have been worse.

[whottt]

The fact is Barry has tried to do what the Spurs asked him...he's taken an inconsistent role and PT...and he's kept his mouth shut...

The fact that he isn't successful in changing his game to the extent everyone wants him too...doesn't mean he's a bad player.

If they'd told Barry as he was taking less to sign here...

We hate your game, you are going to have to completley change it...and you are going to be relegated to the deep bench a few time per season...

Barry probably would not have signed here.


Barry came here anticipating backing up both guard spots and being the key 6thman off the bench....I mean look at what they were paying him...




Teams usually don't court FA's by saying they want to change their games...

[picnroll]

Still...2 les in 3 years...things could have been worse.

... and I doubt Barry is looking back and regretting that offer he turned down from the Blazers where he could have made more money and had a bigger role.

[objective]

re: the Barry point guard thing

Beno played 15 minutes in the season opener in 04/05, he was always the back-up point in 04/05.

I think what people might be getting confused over is how Barry was used.

In that season opener was a great Barry/Duncan pick-n-roll that ended in a Duncan dunk, and of course was featured in all the highlight shows that talked about what a great pick up Barry was. Legler for one declared that Barry would be 6th Man of the Year, and I believe his quote was 'Book it!'

That sort of use of Barry with the ball in his hands is what a lot of people expected, but it kind of disappeared soon after that game.

[whottt]

... and I doubt Barry is looking back and regretting that offer he turned down from the Blazers where he could have made more money and had a bigger role.

I don't have a doubt Barry wanted to be a Spur...and he's conducted himself like one for his entire time here...


But he probably wouldn't have wanted to sign with a team where he wasn't wanted...ring or not...


Would you?

[wildbill2u]

Tonight they had a lot of turnovers on traveling. And even palming. They pretty much had every type of turnover possible.

Regarding moving screens, every NBA team is getting called for moving screens in the preseason a lot. It's because it's one of the referees points of emphasis this year.

PALMING? An NBA ref called palming? NBA refs don't call palming. No wonder the Greeks lost, they were fighting homer refs.