McDonald: Spurs' Udrih, Vaughn unlikely to be healthy for opener

[Darkwaters]

Waive Beno!

There, back on topic.

[Obstructed_View]

It amazes me when people ignore that he destroyed those stockpiles when our US-sponsored UN sanctions actually started working. He wasn't a threat and the WMDs were falsely trumped up for a personal agenda. The WMDs just weren't there in 2003.

We should have stayed focused on kicking OBL's ass in Afghanistan and brung it to Pakistan if necessary. What the was the Iraq war about? I don't think anyone in the civilian public can truthfully answer that.

Listen, I voted for Bush in 2004 (too young to vote in 2000). But fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Stupidity like the above is why I play forum police, T Park.

[Mr. Body]

The deal with Iraq is that they had sanctions for over a decade and never fully complied. Clinton was too busy getting blow jobs to actually care about doing a damn thing about it. And to tend to forget that even when we were doing weapons inspections on them they still never let the inspectors into half of the places they were supposed to. They never fully complied...not by a long shot.

Pakistan? Last I checked they're our ally. If you destabilize them any further they shift to a radical Islamic state that hates us. Don't be an idiot like Obama saying we need to "invade Pakistan".

Seriously though, why are we having this conversation here? Put it in the appropriate forum and we'll discuss it there. But it's unfair to everyone else to hijack this thread in this manner.

Sorry guys.

I like you for a lot of reasons, but clearly your politics aren't a reason. The WMD issue is re ed at this point. Everyone knew they didn't have any. Weapons inspectors knew they didn't. The neo-cons just wanted a war, and specifically one in Iraq, for reasons they had already spelled out in their PNAC papers.

Iraq was fully under control in the Clinton years. They'd still be fully under control at this point if those criminals didn't criminally start something they didn't know how to win.

Next you'll blame the first WTC bombings and the US Cole incident on Clinton like some dittohead. First WTC bombings were punished and those involved were accountable, despite it happening a month after his inauguration. The US Cole incident was Bush's responsibility because it happened just before he was inaugurated. Guess what? They let bin Laden go free.

Cut Beno.

[Darkwaters]

I like you for a lot of reasons, but clearly your politics aren't a reason.

Clearly I can say the same about you. I have always respected your points and think you are generally one of the more level-headed and sensible posters on the board. However, on this issue I must respectfully disagree.

The WMD issue is re ed at this point. Everyone knew they didn't have any. Weapons inspectors knew they didn't. The neo-cons just wanted a war, and specifically one in Iraq, for reasons they had already spelled out in their PNAC papers.

Iraq was fully under control in the Clinton years. They'd still be fully under control at this point if those criminals didn't criminally start something they didn't know how to win.

Next you'll blame the first WTC bombings and the US Cole incident on Clinton like some dittohead. First WTC bombings were punished and those involved were accountable, despite it happening a month after his inauguration. The US Cole incident was Bush's responsibility because it happened just before he was inaugurated. Guess what? They let bin Laden go free.

Cut Beno.

I thought your statement through and came up with several witty, clearly stated and (in my opinion) superior arguments. But frankly, I see no reason to give them. Firstly, this is neither the time nor the place. And secondly, I doubt no matter how extensively we debate the topic that either of us will be able to sway the other's opinion. Our minds are made up, and any debate will simply create unnecessary friction between us. I consider you a forum friend, and see no reason to damage that in a fruitless debate that does nothing but allow us to flex our political muscles. Besides, I respect your right to voice your opinion and while I disagree with you, it is, indeed, your right. And as a member of the armed forces I would gladly fight to guard that freedom. So why make it come between us? Especially in a Spurs forum... Lets just cut Beno and be satisfied with that debate.

Invade Slovenia.

[some_user86]

Stupidity like the above is why I play forum police, T Park.

I'm sorry, but what?

Listen, I have my opinions and you have yours, so let's just cut the ad hominem attacks, shall we? I fail to see any non-rational thinking in my post. We can come to different conclusions based on our personal experiences. Having lived in those regions, I wager, more than any of you has shaped my experience quite differently. Living amongst Muslims as an outsider shows you their obvious humanity, but also exposes you to some elements that show the downside of any religion.

This whole mess wouldn't have started if you and Darkwaters would've left that stupid joke alone. But no. Instead we've got a nuclear war on a hot button issue.

I guess as long as their is a viewpoint that matches your personal opinion, it's okay to interject it into a Spurs article. But the minute someone disagrees, you suddenly become the 'forum police'.

How hypocritical.

BTW, sell Beno's ass for crack money... But Holt probably still won't let him go. I am thinking the only reason he's still around is that Holt uses his ass for target practice when he falls off the wagon or is too bored to screw his wife.

[Darkwaters]

So we'll know for certain on Monday what is happening to Mr. Washington, right?

What do we think the chances are that this goes down to the wire or that we hear some sort of resolution this weekend?

[Obstructed_View]

I guess as long as their is a viewpoint that matches your personal opinion, it's okay to interject it into a Spurs article. But the minute someone disagrees, you suddenly become the 'forum police'.

How hypocritical.

This isn't the first time I've told people to take political arguments to the political forum, and it has little to do with my views on the issue. I simply pointed out the factual inaccuracy of the original statement and have done about as well as anyone could reasonably expect to keep my opinion out of the discussion, other than to call you stupid for picking up the discussion and continuing to pollute this thread (which justifies my original suggestion).

If I were so inclined, I might be happy to educate you in a political debate, or to point out how mistaken you are, but you are not likely to listen, and this certainly isn't the place. I come here to get away from that , and I'm sure others that are completely opposed to my viewpoints do the same.

[Obstructed_View]

So we'll know for certain on Monday what is happening to Mr. Washington, right?

What do we think the chances are that this goes down to the wire or that we hear some sort of resolution this weekend?

I think the Spurs are going to probably try to shop Beno until the absolute last second. Any chance of being able to dump his salary on someone else is worth the effort.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Sloth, purse-toting worthlessness I saidddddd

[Russ]

11 points tonight for Washington may have sealed a spot. (Although the unworthy Williams also had 5.)

[Holt's Cat]

Williams is raw but at this point I'd go with him over Beno simply because Williams seems interested in playing NBA basketball.

[T Park]

No the unworthy one is Udrih.

Williams at least is 20, wants to work hard, improve, and fills a need at SF with long arms.

[Mr. Body]

I'd take Washington first.

Williams second.

Then Beno.

Thus -- if possible, keep Washington and Williams. Even if it costs money.

If Beno must be kept, then say goodbye to Williams.

[Russ]

Beno >>>>>> Williams.

The conventional wisdom on Beno has undervalued him greatly.

Five years hence -- Beno in the league. Williams ????

[Holt's Cat]

Beno will club himself right out of this league. If not, he's one of those players with a decent scoring average who we know is not Spurs material. Beno's value right now to the Spurs is that his contact expires at the end of this season. Perhaps they will find a suitor for him, though he's been available for quite some time now.

[T Park]

What are you smokin russ.....

[Mr. Body]

Beno won't be in the league much longer.

[Russ]

What are you smokin russ.....

The anti-herd herb.

[T Park]

The anti-herd herb.

Thats the same stuff Angel smokes.

[some_user86]

This isn't the first time I've told people to take political arguments to the political forum, and it has little to do with my views on the issue. I simply pointed out the factual inaccuracy of the original statement and have done about as well as anyone could reasonably expect to keep my opinion out of the discussion, other than to call you stupid for picking up the discussion and continuing to pollute this thread (which justifies my original suggestion).

If I were so inclined, I might be happy to educate you in a political debate, or to point out how mistaken you are, but you are not likely to listen, and this certainly isn't the place. I come here to get away from that , and I'm sure others that are completely opposed to my viewpoints do the same.

You know what? I would be very happy to let you educate me with your regurgitation of Fox News propaganda.

But I get the feeling you are hiding behind this whole "belongs in political forum" crap. So, let me make it easier for you. I have done what either you or Darkwaters should have done a long time ago. I created a copy of the relevant posts in a thread in the political forum. Please go ahead follow the link and educate me on just how wrong I am. Link: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2025991

Unless you want to cop out by using the "I get enough of this at work" card.

--

There. That is the end of that topic. Anymore comments on this issue should be directed to http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2025991.

--

Beno will not be waived, Williams will remain on the team, and Washington will be picked up by Los Angeles. And thousands of us will cry on how this is the greatest tragedy since the Scola trade or since Raja Bell.

I will be more than happy to eat crow on this, though.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Thy glove hath slapeth thine rivals face

[SenorSpur]

No the unworthy one is Udrih.

Williams at least is 20, wants to work hard, improve, and fills a need at SF with long arms.

Yeah, at least Williams has potential and a positive upside.

Beno is leveled out. Unless his at ude and outlook change, he's likely pissed away his opportunities at this level. Though I still believe some "bottom-feeding" team would likely take a flyer on him. For now, he's merely taking up roster and cap space.

[GSH]

If the Spurs were to just cut Benoh, he would still count against their cap. And any salary they paid to Washington would too. They could wind up going over the threshold by 50K and costing them another million plus in luxury tax. He could wind up being a really expensive acquisition.

As good as Washington has looked, it has still been pre-season action. And he has been totally loose because he has nothing to lose. He has handled himself well, and looked good. But I don't think any of you are suggesting that he is the same caliber as Tony Parker was in his rookie season. And I know everyone can't have forgotten what he was like in the playoffs that year.

In the playoffs, the teams are better overall, and they are playing a different level of basketball. The pressure of crunch time in the playoffs can't even be compared to free-wheeling in the pre-season. Parker felt it. And even though he handled it well for a rookie, there were times where he all but collapsed and Pop had to go with experience over speed and skills.

That being said, if the Spurs knew (and I mean really KNEW) exactly where the lux tax threshold was going to fall this year...and if they knew they had room to do it...I think they might consider dumping Benoh and signing the kid. They would probably have to give him some of JV's minutes through the regular season - both to let him learn the system, and to try and be sure that JV would be healthy come playoff time. Because there is one thing you can be certain of: no matter how good Washington has looked, he is still a rookie, and experience is gold in playoff crunch time. Benoh, whatever his negatives, has been through it all more than once. And because of that, he would still (almost certainly) be better than a rookie with the jitters.

It's no secret that the Spurs are an aging team - it gets mentioned in virtually every story about them this year. Strategically, they are trying to maximize the value of the remainder of Duncan's best years. They are bringing back a virtually intact roster from last season, which means that they are rolling the dice on another championship THIS season. Anything less than another ring this year will make that gamble a failure. And anything that waters down their chances THIS season would be a collosal strategic blunder.

Benoh was good enough to get picked up for the Rookie/Soph exhibition during All Star weekend a few years ago. I think a lot of Spurs fans have forgotten that. Pop's doghouse is a really rough place, and not everyone has had the stomach for it. I'm still not convinced that it hasn't made Benoh a worse player. (I think it had the same effect on Malik Rose.) With his playoff experience, I think he would hold as much interest as a backup for some other team as, say, Jason Hart. If the Spurs can structure a deal that would assure that they wouldn't get hit with the Lux Tax, they could do it. Otherwise, there are worst things than standing pat.