Vick sentenced to 23 months

[mardigan]

O

[703 Spurz]

And to others he was punished much to harshly despite the efforts of others in this thread.

Why do you guys even give a anyway? Falcons fans?

[DarkReign]

So Vick cops a plea deal (which means he has agreed to throw himself on the mercy of the court), violates his federal probation and yet, its not his fault?!

And you want to tell me about logic?

[johngateswhiteley]

If someone tortured my dog and killed it, the media wouldn't have to convince me of anything at all. I would want them to spend 5 years in prison if I didn't manage to murder them out of rage.

exactly. btw, did you hear from the people whose dogs were killed by Vick?....hmm, didn't think so.

[Spawn]

I am outraged at that. Dogfighting has been a nasty little secret in too many areas of this country for far too long. Hopefully, this case will start to shed some lights on those dark corners.

It's true that Vick was made an example of, but it's about time that somebody was. If you let the big name get away with it, nobody will ever go down.

There are many other ed up things going on in this world to be worried about some stupid ass dogs.

[johngateswhiteley]

Vick's concerns that this deal was unfair went out the door when he signed the agreement -- are you now saying that neither the law nor Vick's agreement should have been a consideration here? If that's true, when should those sorts of things ever be considered in a criminal prosecution?

And Vick's execution of that agreement sure as means he agreed to it. Suppose that you and I are negotiating a contract. There is a term that I insist upon -- a penalty provision -- that you don't think is fair. Still, you need the work that I'm offering and you decide to accept my offer and sign the contract. When you do something that invokes the penalty provision, do you really think it's a defense to my breach of contract claim for you to say you thought that term was unfair? Of course not. You signed the contract and, by so doing, you agreed to that term.

A plea bargain is, for the most part, no different than any other contract. The government usually agrees to a somewhat reduced sentence from the maximum and the defendant agrees to plead guilty, subject to the conditions imposed by the agreement.

Vick made a calculated gamble. He agreed to a plea, knowing he was most likely going to jail for at least 12-18 months, because it gave him a chance (he thought) to get back on the football field. By undertaking that gamble, Vick necessarily agreed to the terms of the agreement, even if he thought them unfair. His choice, if he didn't agree to those terms, was to take his case to trial and face the possible consequences of a conviction for more severe crimes. To say that his execution of the agreement is somehow not indicative of his agreement to the terms imposed by it is, I think, disingenuous.



It is deemed severe enough to be punishable by 5 years in prison, a 3 year probation, and a $250,000 fine.



Those are arguments to change the law -- if Vick hadn't waived his appeals (he has) and could get a sponsor of the law that is now compelling his incarceration to come forward and advise an appellate court that this was not an outcome that was anticipated by the law, then your argument would have some sway. But I suspect that this is precisely the outcome that the sponsor of that law anticipated.

If you don't like the law, why don't you write to your congressman or congresswoman -- in fact, write to all of them -- and urge them to consider a revision in the law. Whining about your belief that the law is unjust in an internet forum rings a little hollow when you're not willing to turn to those who could actually do something about changing that law. In the meantime, you're arguing, in essence, that a judge did the wrong thing by applying the law to the agreed upon facts of this case



So, wait a second -- you acknowledge that Vick "would end up doing even more time" for a conviction by a jury and yet you argue that somehow a plea should absolve him of the lesser punishment imposed by the Court? Are you even listening to yourself? This isn't about Michael Vick the football player -- it's about Michael Vick the admitted felon. If Vick was a doctor or an architect or a biochemical researcher instead of a football player, would his desire to take the fastest route back to his profession make any difference to you? I doubt it. If Vick was a ditch-digger or a fast-foot clerk or a school custodian I'm sure that his desire to get back to work as quickly as possible wouldn't have meant anything to anyone. I'm not sure what difference it makes in terms of the justness of his sentence that Vick was trying to take "the fastest route back to the field." But regardless, in taking that route, Vick flat-damned agreed that he would be punished by imprisonment and now he's gotten exactly that. I'm not sure how asking him to live up to the terms of his agreement is either unfair or unjust and I'm quite sure it's not bull .

i think vick is a crappy QB...so me wanting him on the field via the quickest route is irrelevant. i am just stating why he did what he did (pleaded and went to jail early)...its logical.

let me put it to you this way, if i was michael vick and ran a dog fighting ring, i would have done the exact same thing as vick did...i would have gone to jail early, pleaded, and acted apologetic. b/c i know the law, media, people, and judge would all be working against me. simply b/c the law is ridiculous, people are emotional and irrational, and the judge will be molded by media attention.

i don't give a if the judge thought vick was remorseful or lied or whatever, he should have looked at the evidence and gave vick a slap on the wrist or 6 months at most. what is to be learned by sending vick to jail? who benefits...and please don't tell me some poor little doggies. its outrageous.

somewhere along the way you lost my point, i don't care if you think the sentence is fair, i don't care if you agree with the law, i don't care if you think vick agreed to possible future judgment....its all irrelevant to me. i care about the wacky hypocritical public and media, and i care about laws that need to be adjusted or fixed. post dog fighting vick should have never been in this situation to begin with...something is ed up in a world where a man uses dogs for his entertainment, doesn't hurt anyone, and goes to jail for 2 years with various other penalties. if you or others can't see that, i don't know what to tell you. pull back the wool from over your eyes.

[K-State Spur]

There are many other ed up things going on in this world to be worried about some stupid ass dogs.

Once again, we live in a society where dogs are servants, co-workers, friends, and family.

Nobody's saying you have to own a dog. Nobody's saying that you have to be friendly to a dog. Nobody's even saying that you have to be around a dog.

You just don't get to torture them, kill them, or fight them against each other for your own sick enjoyment.

It's really a very simple thing to follow.

[johngateswhiteley]

Once again, we live in a society where dogs are servants, co-workers, friends, and family.

i...don't...care.

[Spawn]

Once again, we live in a society where dogs are servants, co-workers, friends, and family.

Nobody's saying you have to own a dog. Nobody's saying that you have to be friendly to a dog. Nobody's even saying that you have to be around a dog.

You just don't get to torture them, kill them, or fight them against each other for your own sick enjoyment.

It's really a very simple thing to follow.

What do you want, a congresional investigation on dogfighting, a federal task force against dogfighters, an all out war against dogfighting?

[K-State Spur]

i...don't...care.

who gives a if you care? that's our society and the law agrees with me.

it's such a simple and easy law to follow, you have to seriously question the psyche of someone who would go out of there way to violate it.

[K-State Spur]

What do you want, a congresional investigation on dogfighting, a federal task force against dogfighters, an all out war against dogfighting?

as long as it's not grandstanding, it would be a better use of their resources than many of the things that the feds do.

[Spawn]

why not?

I violated my own rules. I usually don't spend time debating with racists in denial, Bonds haters, and people who value a dogs life over human life.

Peace out!!!

[K-State Spur]

I violated my own rules. I usually don't spend time debating with racists in denial, Bonds haters, and people who value a dogs life over human life.

Peace out!!!

whoa there turbo.

where do you get that I am a racist or that I hate Bonds?

I do value the life of dogs, but not over human life. Looks at my posts early in this thread. I agree with Vick's punishment here. He got 2 years. If he had tortured and killed people, I think he would have deserved 200 years. How is that valuing dogs more than people?

My own rule is to question the sanity of anyone that could leap to those conclusions about me based on a few simple posts.

[johngateswhiteley]

that's our society and the law agrees with me.

it's such a simple and easy law to follow, you have to seriously question the psyche of someone who would go out of there way to violate it.

our society is ed, and i don't have to question anyone who wanted to fight dogs. while i don't do it and am not offended by those who do...you won't catch me at a dog fight.

...i go out of my way to speed on the highways fwiw.

[Spawn]

whoa there turbo.

where do you get that I am a racist or that I hate Bonds?

I do value the life of dogs, but not over human life. Looks at my posts early in this thread. I agree with Vick's punishment here. He got 2 years. If he had tortured and killed people, I think he would have deserved 200 years. How is that valuing dogs more than people?

My own rule is to question the sanity of anyone that could leap to those conclusions about me based on a few simple posts.

I never said you hated Bonds or were racists I was just stating my general rules of debate. Perhaps I was unfair to say that you valued dog life over human so I apologize. But there are others who do in this thread and that is why I say peace out to this thread.

[johngateswhiteley]

Perhaps I was unfair to say that you valued dog life over human so I apologize. But there are others who do in this thread and that is why I say peace out to this thread.

lol.

[mikejones99]

most people hate vick and bonds