Trade Proposals

[AFBlue]

Villanueva is their 5th best player. He only makes 2.7 million this year, what makes you think his value has gone down? Yes his scoring averages has dipped down from 11.8 to 9.3, but he only gets paid 2.7 million and is one of the few players in the league that can play the 5, 4, and 3. I like the idea I just don't think its reasonable trading a young player with a high ceiling just so you can save 3 million. They could get a lot better offers if he was on the block. I have yet to see rumors where it says Bucks are listening to offers for Villanueva. I'd imagine they would try to use him to get rid of Gadzuric and Simmons ridiculous contracts. Something Spurs can't afford to do.

You guys have a difference of opinion and I doubt either of you will convince the other.

But I haven't seen a single thing that makes me believe the Spurs would go after yet another three-point shooting PF....they have two already. So to me, the point of his relative trade value is moot.

[td4mvp21]

We need a better big man....and a wing player that will ING HIT HIS SHOTS!!!!!

[ss1986v2]

But I haven't seen a single thing that makes me believe the Spurs would go after yet another three-point shooting PF....they have two already. So to me, the point of his relative trade value is moot.

agreed. his skill set is very similar to bonner, except he cant shoot (but thinks he can), but has a higher upside overall. im not saying bonner > CV, but why add more redundancy to the rotation?

ive swung my support behind a barry+elson+pick for kurt thomas trade. he gives us some interior defense, rebounding, and can knock down the 15ft jump shot with good consistency.

[tav1]

Villanueva's trade value is not that high right now. I think they'd be fine with Elson and a pick.

The Bucks want to use Villanueva as a sweetener. Gadzuric and Vil is probably what they are shopping, but I doubt anyone is that sweet on Vil. Milwaukee basically wants to blow it up and build around the Chinese Cash Cow. Vil affects his minutes. Vil must go. They're are also shopping Redd.

I've advocated for Villanueva on other threads--my reasoning is basically this: he's cheap, he's locked up for another season; he's an ***effective*** 3 point shooting 4 (as opposed to Horry and Bonner); he has something of a post game; he can put the ball on the floor; he's not too shabby on the boards (again, better than Bonner and Horry); he would allow the Spurs to move Bonner this summer, or before. And, in general, he's help our scoring problems. If we can move Elson and a pick for him, he'd be a steal.

[MaNu4Tres]

The Bucks want to use Villanueva as a sweetener. Gadzuric and Vil is probably what they are shopping, but I doubt anyone is that sweet on Vil. Milwaukee basically wants to blow it up and build around the Chinese Cash Cow. Vil affects his minutes. Vil must go. They're are also shopping Redd.

I've advocated for Villanueva on other threads--my reasoning is basically this: he's cheap, he's locked up for another season; he's an ***effective*** 3 point shooting 4 (as opposed to Horry and Bonner); he has something of a post game; he can put the ball on the floor; he's not too shabby on the boards (again, better than Bonner and Horry); he would allow the Spurs to move Bonner this summer, or before. And, in general, he's help our scoring problems. If we can move Elson and a pick for him, he'd be a steal.

There's no way we can get Villanueva at his price 2.7 million straight up for any of our players Bonner Finley Elson. NO WAY that will happen. The only way we get Villanueva is if we send 2 -3 first round picks( which won't happen) or take on Gadzuric's contract. I'm tired of hearing all these unrealistic trades. Elson and a pick for Villanueva won't and never will happen. Bucks would laugh at that trade proposal. Their priority is to get rid of Simmons Gadzuric's contracts. Clearing 2.7 million off their books isn't necessarily clearly cap space to sign free agents that can make a bigger difference than Villanueva.


And for the love and obsession of trading Elson and a pick for JR Smith..

What the is that going to do. Yes trade a big man ( something we are very thin at) for a wing that is just as good as our 5th wing and won't see but 10 minutes a game IF he's lucky.You guys act like theres 180 minutes to hand out at the 2 and 3 positions. There's only 96 minutes to go around at the wing. You figure Manu's 35, Bowen's typical 30 thats already 65. Then you have 30 more minutes for Finley Barry Udoka.The only way I see us trading for a wing is if he's worthy enough to break the 8 man playoff rotation and make an immediate and big impact. In order for that to happen we'd have to include finley barry and elson and maybe 2 picks to get someone GOOD enough to actually STEAL minutes from our proven veterans in Bowen Manu Finley Udoka and Barry. If we traded Elson for a wing the best thing we would get back is a garbage time wing. To me thats not worth making our weak frontcourt even weaker and thinner.

[Chucho]

Yes trade a big man ( something we are very thin at)

Horry, Bonner, Elson, Oberto. That's not thin at all. You have the definitions of thin and inefficient terribly mixed up. Oberto can't stay out of foul trouble long enough to contribute, Elson plain out sucks, Bonner is hit and miss as much as anyone in the League and Bobs is just plain old and neither of them or a combination of the two can score and rebound reliably and with consistency. Our bigs lineup isn't thin when it goes four deep outside Tim, it's just terribly inefficient or old. Getting rid of any two of them for a wing and another big can't be any worse than what we have now.

[tav1]

Villanueva only plays 19 minutes a game and has a PER of 13. There is no GM in the league that would give up more than one mid to late 1st round pick for him. He'd be a nice addition, but he's never making an All Star team. He'll never compete for a 6th man. Why do you think he has so much value? And it's not just the 2.7 million the Bucks clear, it's the floor time for Yi that is most important. If Larry Harris can't package him with a bogus contract, then an expiring contract and a pick is doing o.k.

[MaNu4Tres]

Horry, Bonner, Elson, Oberto. That's not thin at all. You have the definitions of thin and inefficient terribly mixed up. Oberto can't stay out of foul trouble long enough to contribute, Elson plain out sucks, Bonner is hit and miss as much as anyone in the League and Bobs is just plain old and neither of them or a combination of the two can score and rebound reliably and with consistency. Our bigs lineup isn't thin when it goes four deep outside Tim, it's just terribly inefficient or old. Getting rid of any two of them for a wing and another big can't be any worse than what we have now.

So pick a sentence I said and exploit it lol. The way i see it is this. Trading Elson and even a pick won't get us a wing that will see minutes when it counts. So getting rid of a one of the 2 big mans that can actually jump and contest the rim to some extent for a wing that rides the bench doesn't make sense to me. Our big's production outside of Tim is highly inferrior especially defensively and off of production our front court is THIN. Oberto does nothing for us defensively except provide a ladder for an and 1 for opposing wings who penetrate. Bonner is the same. Last year Horry played his ass off defensively, which I think was more critical than Oberto making wide open lay ups and setting decent screens. To me it would be very nice to have a defensive big man to come in and help instead putting all our eggs in Horry's basket again. Just the safe way to go.

[MaNu4Tres]

Villanueva only plays 19 minutes a game and has a PER of 13. There is no GM in the league that would give up more than one mid to late 1st round pick for him. He'd be a nice addition, but he's never making an All Star team. He'll never compete for a 6th man. Why do you think he has so much value? And it's not just the 2.7 million the Bucks clear, it's the floor time for Yi that is most important. If Larry Harris can't package him with a bogus contract, then an expiring contract and a pick is doing o.k.

That's your opinion, I have mine. I just don't think we can trade Elson and a pick to get Villanueva. the only thing we got for beno was a protected 2nd round pick. Same with Scola. What makes you think a very late first rounder and a big who never plays will be enough to get Villanueva, I'm not even putting Villanueva on a pedastool either. Just my opinion.

[tav1]

So pick a sentence I said and exploit it lol. The way i see it is this. Trading Elson and even a pick won't get us a wing that will see minutes when it counts. So getting rid of a one of the 2 big mans that can actually jump and contest the rim to some extent for a wing that rides the bench doesn't make sense to me. Our big's production outside of Tim is highly inferrior especially defensively and off of production our front court is THIN. Oberto does nothing for us defensively except provide a ladder for an and 1 for opposing wings who penetrate. Bonner is the same. Last year Horry played his ass off defensively, which I think was more critical than Oberto making wide open lay ups and setting decent screens. To me it would be very nice to have a defensive big man to come in and help instead putting all our eggs in Horry's basket again. Just the safe way to go.

I basically agree with this. I think we should put the wing thing to rest until the offseason.

If we do trade for a traditional big, it ought to be for a vet with a decent basketball iq. And for someone with a defined talent, like a gnack for rebounding or shot blocking. I think Kurt Thomas and Jeff Foster make a whole lot of sense but their price is steep relative to our roster. A young guy like Channing Frye might help, but that's debatable. PJ Brown is probably too out of shape. So that leaves guys like Adonal Foyle and Joe Smith.

Foyle is not a great big by any stretch, but he can rebound and shot block. He's high character, high intelligence. And at 1.2 million we could use a trade exception or possibly Bonner's BYC number.

[pku47]

Barry plus a pick for Shane Battier -- Battier has mostly need a disappointment for the Rockets this year. Adelman would probably welcome a move that got more time for Bonzi Wells. This could become more likely if the Rockets fall out of the playoff picture and want to shed some salary.

I would be happy to see this happens.

but I believe a CHINESE company wont allow Battier to leave Houston
the company gave extra money to Rox during the rumor of R.Lewis & Battier last summer

[Chucho]

I basically agree with this. I think we should put the wing thing to rest until the offseason.

If we do trade for a traditional big, it ought to be for a vet with a decent basketball iq. And for someone with a defined talent, like a gnack for rebounding or shot blocking. I think Kurt Thomas and Jeff Foster make a whole lot of sense but their price is steep relative to our roster. A young guy like Channing Frye might help, but that's debatable. PJ Brown is probably too out of shape. So that leaves guys like Adonal Foyle and Joe Smith.

Foyle is not a great big by any stretch, but he can rebound and shot block. He's high character, high intelligence. And at 1.2 million we could use a trade exception or possibly Bonner's BYC number.

The wing issue is an issue simply because our wings don't do much except jack up open jumpshots and miss. Manu and Ime are the only players on the squad making shots consistently. It's an issue.

"Adonal Foyle is not great by any stretch" is a severe understatement. He's worse than Elson in every statistical category sans he blocks .3 more shots. Why would we want a slower, more useless version of Elson who costs twice more (he makes 6 mil per) simply because he has high character? Pfft...

So pick a sentence I said and exploit it lol. The way i see it is this. Trading Elson and even a pick won't get us a wing that will see minutes when it counts. So getting rid of a one of the 2 big mans that can actually jump and contest the rim to some extent for a wing that rides the bench doesn't make sense to me. Our big's production outside of Tim is highly inferrior especially defensively and off of production our front court is THIN. Oberto does nothing for us defensively except provide a ladder for an and 1 for opposing wings who penetrate. Bonner is the same. Last year Horry played his ass off defensively, which I think was more critical than Oberto making wide open lay ups and setting decent screens. To me it would be very nice to have a defensive big man to come in and help instead putting all our eggs in Horry's basket again. Just the safe way to go.

I didn't exploit anything. I merely pointed out a difference in nomenclature. And all you pointed out is exactly what I pointed out, just in different terms. You just disagree with the need for a scoring wing and I don't see Elson nor Horry contesting anything around the rim. I see the large gaps they leave open and how fast teams can blow by them for easy lay ups. Our bigs are inefficient and I do agree a defensive big is the cure as is a wing who can score with efficiency because Ime can do what Bruce does, maybe better since his legs are fresher and Finley and Barry are done. Done. And its obvious too.

[SenorSpur]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_8109739



Looks like JR Smith's trade value is at its lowest since being with the Hornets when the Spurs almost pulled of that trade for him.

Elson for Smith and Wafer

Hmmm. Wonder if the Spurs would again be interested?

[tav1]

Here's the deal with Foyle: he's much brighter than Elson and would probably figure out the rotations yet this season. It's nearly two years on and Elson is still clueless. I think Foyle, however laughable it sounds, would be a sharp upgrade. This is an example when the numbers won't really help.

[MaNu4Tres]

I find this post hilarious