Reply With Quote
The Masoretic Text is in Greek?
I only think the way most people create the image of their God is wrong, and delusional. There is plenty of evidence beyond dogma to show that God's did live here on Earth at one time in history. Spiritually, I have no doubt that we have a spirit that exceeds the bounds of flesh. I can only speculate the depths of that reality.
Back on point. To say that the Mormons are wrong is no more than opinion. There is no evidence that their interpretations are wrong.
If that part of a said scroll does indeed still exist, we still only have limited knowledge of the real context of what it was said to be. Smith may have had his hands on more than one, or the scroll may have contained more than just a burial ceremony. He may have actually had as part of the text, what he claimed to have. To say that a remaining burned piece does not support his claim is ridiculous. He may of in fact had as he claimed, and it could now be destroyed.
I guess I should say that I also believe Joseph Smith was a fraud. I am just open to the possibility he wasn't.
The Masoretic Text is in Greek?
Frankly, I just find it amazing that Christians throughout history have been coming to these conclusions about God by relying on these faulty English translations. That is a real eye-opener.
So, did Jerome translate to Latin from the King James text? That must have made one muddled translation.
If Cyril and Methodius were using the flawed English text when they brought Scripture to the Slavs, why did they use all those goofy-looking characters for their new alphabet? The mind boggles.
So, like, if Luther had used original manuscripts instead of the King James for his German Bible, like, would Mormonism have swept over Europe in the 1500's?
Let me clarify. I did leave out something. Yes, the Hebrew language Masoretic text was used. However, so was the Septuagint, which is the Greek translated version. The people of the time understood the Greek language far better, so it can be assumed that the words they didn't understand, they fell back on the Septuagint.
I'm with you...my arguement here is not about the definition of Gods or Bible translations, it's merely to the point that everything in every religion is the same. It's all the same god, just different manifestations.
I'm far from being religious and I rarely believe there is a god, but if there is one and he IS as powerful and all knowing and all being as is written, then you have to believe that he can show himself in any form whether it be the Mormon way, the Hindu way, or the Buddhist way.
Why not? God is all and everything..I would assume that god can also manifest itself as a flying spaghetti en y...or would that be assuming too much?
Very, very solid post. Nice job.
So, all of these bible passages are incorrectly translated (and why are you focussing on the KJ - the NIV is a modern translation, by modern scholars with a more complete understanding of ancient languages - it certainly doesn't argue for polytheism)?
1. DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39 Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
2. DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]
3. DEUTERONOMY 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
4. 2 SAMUEL 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
5. 1 KINGS 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
6. 2 KINGS 5:15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
7. 2 KINGS 19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
8. 1 CHRONICLES 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
9. NEHEMIAH 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
10. PSALM 18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
11. PSALM 86:10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
12. ISAIAH 37:16,20 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.
13. ISAIAH 43:10,11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
14. ISAIAH 44:6,8 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
15. ISAIAH 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
16. ISAIAH 46:9 For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
17. HOSEA 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
18. JOEL 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
19. ZECHARIAH 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
20. MARK 12:29-34 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
21. JOHN 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
22. ROMANS 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the cir cision by faith, and uncir cision through faith.
23. 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
24. GALATIANS 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
25. EPHESIANS 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
26. 1 TIMOTHY 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
27. 1 TIMOTHY 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
28. JAMES 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
101A apparently stayed up late.
101A did.
(but not typing that list - that was Google)
Bart Simpson: "Easy on the zeal Churchos ... I've got something to say. Don't you get it? It's all Christianity, people! The little stupid differences are nothing next to the big stupid similarities!"
I just believe.
This all just reminds me of Lewis Black. Hope people have a sense of humor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g
Lewis Black's show is great. I've watched it many times.
Say what you will about other translation, they too are incorrect. Your quotes do not show that there is only one God. They only show that Jehovah says there is no other God on his team. As for the one that states no God formed before or after him, that simply means that Gods are not created.
I looked most complete into the first five passages you quoted. In all five cases, the words used are incorrectly translated. The word "Lord" should be the proper name Jehovah. "God" is deity in the plural form. "None else" does come from "no other", but is qualified with "beside."
Now I don't like the Young's Literal Translation, but it is the best on-line source I know of. It rarely separates the various unique forms of the word "God" and when a word has multiple implications, it stays with the preconceived notions. I wish it would expand on the various forms when some Chaldean and Hebrew words have multiple meaning. When you see how various passages can be interpreted, you see there is a large margin of possibilities.
A few passages that defy standard preconceptions:
I'm not going to break that down except to state the in these passages too, the word "god" is the plural form of diety. Here is the link for various Bibles:Genesis 1:26
And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'
Genesis 6:
1 And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,
2 and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.
3 And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they [are] flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.
4 The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.
5 And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day;
6 and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.
7 And Jehovah saith, `I wipe away man whom I have prepared from off the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens, for I have repented that I have made them.'
Bible Gateway dot com
Just so we are clear.
The point was made by Extra Stout that Christianity is a Monotheistic Religion, and that Mormonism is a Polythesitic Religion; that that was a fundamental difference, and that the two religions are VERY dissimilar, despite Mormons calling themselves "Christian".
It is ridiculous to debate the point on WHETHER the bible supports one, or multiple gods (Gods?) You, obviously, believe in a polytheistic text; I (and ALL of the other Christians) do not. Thank you for reaffirming ES's premise.
The test for Christianity is the belief of Jesus. Not if there is more than one God. Being a Christian doesn't mean you only believe in one God, but that you only follow and worship Jehovah. That is the only point of which a single God must be acknowledged in Christianity.
You are not a Christian if you worship a God other than Jehovah.
"Croation Shaman"
OK.
I believe there is only One God. I believe that is very clearly explained in the bible. Every single person I know that is not a Mormon, but calls themselves a Christian, agrees with me.
You Don't.
Got it.
Sweet, another argument about religion on spurstalk.com.............these always conclude with convincing the other that he/she is wrong and you are right.
Just to be on record: my past two posts have attempted to end the debate by "agreeing to disagree".
That wasn't a joke- a joke is intentional and intelligent. That was someone showing her ignorance and geographic stupidity.
Actually, one of Islam's criticisms of Christianity is that Christianity is polytheistic (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
