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Instead of hearing amateur schmack, I think I'll use this rare free time to I have to rock the LA Slum Lords on GH3.
The Spurs will turn it around and I'm sticking with them to rep the West in the Finals.
Random: If anyone bets in the next vbookie here is some advice. Well on a Spurs next game to be specific.
Want double or get lots of easy money? If you have under 2,500 bet it all on the Spurs, if you have more half it.
Thank me later.
Instead of hearing amateur schmack, I think I'll use this rare free time to I have to rock the LA Slum Lords on GH3.
The Spurs will turn it around and I'm sticking with them to rep the West in the Finals.
On Parker’s defense on Iverson in fourth quarter - “Allen is a hall-of-fame player and he’s going to make runs and he’s going to make baskets but Tony never got down and played him, played him, played him. Bruce took the pressure off him for a little while and Tony got back on him and was fantastic.”
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/quotes_080310.html
Just like to point out that for the last week I've been calling for:
-Oberto to start,
-KT to be Tim's backup,
-JV to take backup duties (and MM to drop into a hole and disappear),
-Manu to go to the bench,
-Ime/Barry to take over starting SG, and Fin to find a permanent seat,
-Bonner to take Horry's minutes.
Horry played well, so I got that one wrong, but the other moves were right and well overdue... not that it matters, since we still lost, but at least we were more compe ive.
Pop has to bring Barry back in (maybe straight in as a starter), sit Finley for good, and settle on this rotation. Give the players a chance to get comfortable again! Right now, they look like they have no confidence (as well as being old and slow). The only hope for this season is that the team GETS ITS SWAGGER BACK. Otherwise, first round exit here we come...
Are the Spurs the only team in the world that send to the bench one of the best playes of the team, and start the one that sucks big time????? Don't jump on me with the "spark from the bench "
Well, obviously I don't think the Spurs are just fine. There are some issues which actually have been brewing at least since last season, but they caught a break since they ended up not having to face Dallas or Detroit in the playoffs. (No problem with that, it makes up for the bad breaks of 04 and 06).
On defense, the troubles have been discussed ad nausium. They're older, and the decision to rely on corporate knowledge rather than some new young legs has hurt them there. In the playoffs, I actually anticipate that they'll do a bit better, if only for the fact that everyone tightens up in shooting.
Offense is a bigger concern. The Spurs are more reliant on the 3-pointer and jump shots than any time in their history. And correspondingly doing less in the paint than at any time in the TD era
2008 FTA 21.9 3PA 20.3
2007 FTA 24.1 3PA 19.0
2006 FTA 23.0 3PA 16.6
2005 FTA 25.8 3PA 17.0
Look at that. Nearly as many 3P attempted as FTs. Yeah, the FT% is better, but guess what? Shooting 70% on 24 FTs a game is better than shooting 76% on 22 FTs a game. Not just because of the 0.1 PPG increase, but because of getting other teams in foul trouble, and because it's an indication that your not just shooting jump shots.
Relying on three pointers and jump shots is a recipe for failure in the playoffs, yet that's what the Spurs have become. And what's our biggest hope for improvement? The return of Brent Barry to give us better outside shooting. Barry obviously does more than hit threes, but he's the difference between a deep run in the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round?
Rebounding actually was improved this year over last, but seems to have taken a plunge recently along with everything else during the slump.
Kurt Thomas, who should have been a perfect fit, hasn't made a big an impact for reasons that aren't clear. Stoudamire? LOL. Although I blame Pop for fixing something that didn't need fixing by changing what he was doing.
I think TD, Tony, and Manu (if he gets rest) will probably be okay for the playoffs. But the Spurs are otherwise relying on Finley and Horry to somehow play in a way that they've given no indication they're capable of for most (or all) of the year. And I'd be shocked if Barry's back at much more than 80%.
in a shocking coincidence, that was also our last win.
(Excuse the metaphor.)
Like two lovers that haven't slept together in a while, Manu and TP need some time to find each others hot spots again. Last year, especially in the playoffs, it seemed like they shared the ball in a more efficient way. They made sure the defense had to worry about the big three every time down the court.
The last few games, I've noticed that Manu becomes passive when TP has it going, or TP decides to let Manu take over for a while when he has the hot hand. But the bottom line is that we aren't winning the championship unless these two work into an orgasm together.
Last years Pistons lost to a 1 man team. They werent going to prevent the Spurs from the championship.
Dallas you can speculate all you want on.
Good analysis.
But we've always relied on jump shots haven't we, as part of the inside-out attack?
We've often been cursed with shooting woes it seems, especially during even years. I'm convinced if we could have had a guy like Cassell on our team the past few years we'd have at least 2 more les.
That's a simply a case of more touches for Manu and Parker and teams not respecting our outside shooting.
Barry will most definitely help that...even Mike D'antoni doesn't double off him.
Not having guys that can hit thres and J's is a bigger recipe for failure.Relying on three pointers and jump shots is a recipe for failure in the playoffs,
Sin,
David
He's the difference between a triple team or a double team for Duncan...or sometimes no double team at all.yet that's what the Spurs have become. And what's our biggest hope for improvement? The return of Brent Barry to give us better outside shooting. Barry obviously does more than hit threes, but he's the difference between a deep run in the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round?
Even if he only gets in the game for 5 minutes, that can stretch the defense and open up the paint, force a team to change it's scheme.
Of course it'll help having one of the best 3 shooters in NBA history on the court.
Threes help, even if it's only the threat of a 3, just like they helped Hakeem...and Jordan, and Robinson and Duncan, and Shaq, and virtually every other guy to win an NBA le since they were ins uted in the NBA.
That's why some of us having been making such a big deal about the three and the impact it has on our post season success(as well as a guy like Barry)....for years now.
You know it won't be so confusing if you stop being so resistant to giving Barry any credit...
We had Hedo, who is much more talented and a better defensive player, but his disrespected shot cost us a repeat.
We basically replaced him with Barry and won a le...and Barry was our main back up guard rotation in 05.
It helps.
I promise you...you will never see Phil Jackson doubling off Barry...Barry shoots better against the Lakers than any other team in the league for his career.
Anyone want to run some stats on our scoring prior to Barry going out of the lineup VS since?
I don't have to look to know both it and our FG% our down considerably...as well as Duncan's FTs.
Because it's a of a lot easier to cover up the fouls you are commiting on a guy, when you are putting multiple defenders on him.
Sin also,
David
Is it bothersome that one guy can make that kind of a difference? You bet...but it's true nonthless.
Got to have shooting if you want a le...
If you got shooting? You won't have to shoot it as much....and it makes Duncan's job easier.
Last edited by whottt; 03-19-2008 at 01:14 AM.
As great a threat TD is in the paint, it could be argued Brent Barry commands the same attention beyond the arc.
I just hope Brent is healthy enough to play. And if he is, someone tell Pop not to yell at him this time.
Well I don't know about that...Duncan can command 3 defenders in the paint.
But to have a role player that cannot be doubled off of...at all...that is a huge benefit to Tim Duncan...not to mention Manu and Parker's ability to get into the paint.
I know everyone likes Finley...but he gets sagged off of...and he misses those shots often, or he'll force a bad one. Even when he's hot he's not great threat to knock down an open shot and he still takes bad shots.
Finley is a guy that if he's hot...he'll hit shots with someone in his face...but if he's not hot, he'll miss open shots all night long as well...and more importantly, Finley will jack up junk at any point.
Barry will help our offense...he has since the day he stepped on the court for this team. He's better offensive player than Pop is an offensive coach...and probably more knowledgable.
While I always felt the concept of Barry being the Spurs "savior" was a bit overblown, I am somewhat hopeful that he might provide a Kyle Korver type spark (probably to a lesser degree) and take this team over the hump.
We're in desperate times.
I guess that's my way of saying he is money from three. Isn't there a drill the Spurs run in practice where Brent hit like 97 out of 100 shots from different spots on the floor?
I agree with everything else you posted. He's a bigger more versatile Steve Kerr.
I have watched the last game against the Lakers a few times.
He's not a savior in that he's going to take over the game like Manu or something...
It's just role players that the opposing D must respect, really help the stars do their jobs...and they aren't that common.
The Spurs have 2 of them in Barry and Horry...neither one of those guys is going to be doubled off of in a playoff situation. If Horry is 90 years old, you see him getting doubled off of, it'll be a blown rotation, because no coach in control of all his faculties is going to tell a man to leave him.
And the thing is...if the ball does get forced into their hands...they won't jack up a bad shot with it, they'll do something smart with it(last night's rare goof by Horry excepted).
Those little details are the difference between a good or slightly struggling offense, and a completely stagnant one.
IF you assume all stars are good enough to win les...it's the role players that ultimately decide things. It always has been true for the Spurs.
Tim Duncan? He's been good enough to win a le every year of his career...and when he has the role players that come through, or that are respected by opposing teams, he does so. When he doesn't...he gets raped in the post via triple team and gets held to 9 points or has 10 turnovers.
First of all, thanks for the reply. You brought up some valid points.
I agree that the Spurs caught a break by avoiding Dallas but to throw Detroit into the mix is stretching it I'd say. Detroit was a flawed team last year because they relied on Chris Webber. Webber is the worst type of player to have on a team. He's good enough to play and demand the ball but he chokes offensively, sucks defensively and is an a-hole in the lockerroom. He's basically Antoine Walker without the three-point shot.
Now this year's Detroit team is a contender because Webber isn't on the team. Last year, the Spurs beat the Pistons in five ... at most six.
Defense is probably my biggest worry right now. However, it's really the only aspect of the game where you can actually "flip a switch". Last year the Spurs were pretty bad defensively and couldn't buy a rebound, and then the playoffs started and they become very good defensively and great at rebounding. Banking on that again this year is risky and is the thing I think most likely to derail their championship chances, but luckily there is precedence in their favor.
I'm never really concerned about the Spurs' offense. The Spurs are a defensive team who at playoff time will find enough ways to score to win. When you have Duncan, Parker and Ginobili, you are going to score the ball in the playoffs. If they're healthy, the offense will be fine.
The only aspect of the offense that I worry at all about is knocking down open shots, which is the aspect that a team can't control. In 2004, there was nothing wrong with the offense, they just couldn't knock down an open shot. If their shooters didn't absolutely choke, they easily move on to the next round. But yeah, wide open three-point shooters missing isn't really classified as bad offense to me.
And with this team, I don't have much fear in the three-point shooters choking. Bowen has shot better in the playoffs in every year of his Spurs career. Ginobili is shooting the three better than ever. Barry earlier in the year had finally stopped hesitating and began firing away. Even Finley, although he's clanging away, is shooting exactly the same 3P% that he shot last year at this time. All the Spurs need is for at least two of these guys to hit their open threes somewhat consistently. I trust that will happen.
Those are interesting numbers you point out regarding the reliance on three-point shooting and the affect it has had on getting to the line. However, I think the slight bump up in three-pointers attempted is explainable. Ginobili is playing more minutes this season and his game has been more three-point heavy than ever. Finley, mainly due to injuries, has also had to play more minutes and therefore jacking up more threes. Add in Parker missing a lot of time and that 5% increase in three-pointers attempted per game is pretty much accounted for.
Now the free throws attempted is a more pressing concern. However, the good news is that Ginobili and Parker are getting to the line more often than last year, which is important. The player who is not getting to the line is Duncan. The reason for that is pretty much a mystery. He's shooting in the same places ... he's not going to the line. Perhaps it's a Joey Crawford backlash or perhaps it's just bad luck. Whatever it is, it's not because Duncan has changed what he's done. In the playoffs, I guess Spurs fans just have to hope those calls return.
Outside of the Big Three, the rest of the players just don't go to the line that often. That was the case last year and that will likely be the case this year. However, the good news is that Kurt Thomas is a player who can get to the line, which is something the Spurs haven't had since Nazr's playoff run. Plus, the next best Spur at getting the line last season was Barry. He might help in that department.
But really, the bottomline regarding free throws is that is an aspect that the Big Three has to handle. Each member of the Big Three will get to the line more than the whole rest of the team combined. Come playoff time, I expect them to handle the ball even more which should result in more free throws than we've seen during the regular season.
The Spurs sucked rebounding the ball last year and became a great rebounding team in the playoffs. The Spurs have been a great rebounding team all season this year until their recent slide. Even after their recent slide, they're still the best defensive rebounding team in the league. So I don't expect rebounding to be a problem in the playoffs. It might actually be a strength for the first time since Robinson retired.
I do agree about Stoudamire. Pop destroyed him. With that in mind, I think Vaughn is actually one of the biggest weak spots on this team. The average Spurs fan vastly overrates him, IMO. He's pretty damn bad ... but compared to what Stoudamire has become, he looks like Andrew Toney.
I think the Spurs have enough options to survive a flameout by either Finley, Horry or both. As long as Bowen and Ginobili healthy, the Spurs only need one of Finley, Barry or Udoka to play well. I don't think that's asking too much ... but I guess we'll see. Last year, Barry shot blanks in the playoffs for the most part and the Spurs survived it. They didn't even have a fifth swingman to look to, which Udoka will provide this playoff run.
Regarding Horry, I don't think the Spurs rely on him nearly as much as they did from 2004-2007. Pop relied on him so much during that era because the Spurs literally had no other bigman that Pop would trust to close out games. Now Pop has shown a trust in Oberto to close out games. Pop has also said Thomas is a guy who he'll trust to close out a playoff game. The Spurs entered the last four postseasons with only one big outside of Duncan who Pop trusted. Now the Spurs have at least two, maybe three. On top of that, Udoka has shown an ability to rebound as a small ball four that the Spurs haven't had in the past, which gives Pop another option to go to if Horry doesn't come up big.
Besides the mounting losses, I don't see much on paper to make me think the Spurs' chances have diminished too much from what I thought going into this season and now. Age has been my main concern since Day 1 and it remains a concern. Specifically, I'm worried that age will make this team not as good defensively as we've seen in the past. If Bowen or Duncan lose a step or some of the role players become absolutely worthless defensively, that could spell the end of the season for the Spurs. We'll see if the Spurs can still pick up their defense in the playoffs when they need to. If they can't, I think it'll be a sign that age has finally caught up to the team.
Offensively, I never really worry about this team. The Big Three are just too good for the Spurs to lose because of their offense. Yeah, maybe back when it was Duncan, an injured DRob and ten role players then offense could be a problem. But with Duncan still looking like the best bigman in the game, Ginobili playing out of his mind, Parker still young enough to improve and the clutch shooters on the team, I completely trust that the offense will be there when it counts.
Please Get Timmy The Ball, Please I Beg U..
Celtics beat the out of the Spurs... as expected, since the Celtics are superior to the Spurs. OBVIOUSLY BOSTON WAS GONNA WIN THE GAME.
Superior teams don't trail by 22 points in the first quarter. That game was a Big Shot Rob miracle away from a Celtics loss.
And I'll say it now, Celtics going down against the Mavs on Thursday.
the mavs look too lost to beat the celtics. more so when ray allen is expected to return.
The moves you suggested worked perfectly until Pop decided he was a hall of fame coach and put a smallball lineup in the game with Finley at power forward. If they actually stick to what works, and everyone plays with effort they can win games easily. That sort of flies in the face of your suggestion that they were just too old and tired and were playing teams with superior talent like the Sixers.Just like to point out that for the last week I've been calling for:
-Oberto to start,
-KT to be Tim's backup,
-JV to take backup duties (and MM to drop into a hole and disappear),
-Manu to go to the bench,
-Ime/Barry to take over starting SG, and Fin to find a permanent seat,
-Bonner to take Horry's minutes.
Horry played well, so I got that one wrong, but the other moves were right and well overdue... not that it matters, since we still lost, but at least we were more compe ive.
Pop has to bring Barry back in (maybe straight in as a starter), sit Finley for good, and settle on this rotation. Give the players a chance to get comfortable again! Right now, they look like they have no confidence (as well as being old and slow). The only hope for this season is that the team GETS ITS SWAGGER BACK. Otherwise, first round exit here we come...
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