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.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..
Talk about cherry picking. Not to mention circular argument. You just completely ignored the part about the Spurs not getting to the line, which OF COURSE is the original point of this thread, the fact that the Spurs were able to keep close in the first half by getting FTs.Really?
Apology Accepted.
Is this technique related to Shoog's "I said it but hopefully timvp can't find it" technique?
.. how come TiMVP spent his time doing up Game Thots and still get all these flacks.. I don't even think you guys appreciate what immense benefits SpursTalk has brought to foreign fans like us..
Don't worry - timvp likes arguing about sports.
So is offense now not your bigger concern? That changed in three days?
It's all good. I enjoy holding my position against bad takes. Spurs fans were giddy for less than five good minutes of basketball against a bad team. That is unacceptable for both the Spurs and Spurs fans who support such play.
Honestly I will take any Spurs win at this point. Too many good teams that will have an edge in homecourt if the Spurs don't win EVERY GAME from here on out. I don't care how it gets done, but I just want the Spurs to win every game possible, whether by 1 or 20 points. It would be nice if they squashed every team, but I will take the wins even if they look bad in the process. Their have been many seasons, namely when they were scorching going into the playoffs and have lost in the first game of the playoffs or lost 4 in a row against LA in 2004 for me to care at this point.
Homecourt is all that matters because all the other matchups are going to be really tough, and having that homecourt will make all the difference if they are in a Game 7 -- plus I think their psyche won't be too fragile if they know they don't have to play on the road to start a series. And since they are good enough to win and compete on the road, its only natural they want Game 7 in their house. Less pressure.
If they can get homecourt in the West atleast they should have a good sense of confidence going in.
So is offense now not your bigger concern? That changed in three days?
I said I didn't like the trend in the way the Spurs offense wasn't getting to the FT line. Then I said I did like the way they got to the FT line in the first half, and how it kept them in the game. If they hadn't gotten to the line, the game would have been over in the first half.
If the Spurs can continue to get to the line, this is good. If they don't, then it is a big concern.
I also said I liked the way the defensive intensity picked up in the second half. Am I only allowed to comment either offense or defense, but not both?
Geez, I thought only New Age Spur fans forgot how the Spurs used to win.
This is true. But for me a win is a win. To me even if the Spurs finish 59-23 the regular season was still a failure for the most part. I mean this team is too experienced and hasn't suffered any serious injuries to be this bad. Yeah the West is as solid as ever, but it wasn't exactly horrible in 2003 of 2004. And they did pretty well as a less experienced team where Parker and Ginobili weren't even nearly as good as they are now.
Its all about getting homecourt in the West and just figuring it out in the playoffs. Just forget the regular season when its done. Get into the Western Playoffs with homecourt and they have a solid chance to making it to the NBA finals against probably a better team in Boston (likely to be them). But at least they will have momentum moreso than any other playoff and will be battle tested. Their confidence would be way higher then ever.
Honestly can the Spurs even do anything impressive to end this regular season that will make you feel they can beat everyone? Even if they lay an egg and finish 54-28, they still have the same core and experience.
Just finish the season on Top of the West should be the most important thing. No game 7's on the road in the West would be the ideal situation. Winning the rest of these games is just a small intangible to cover up for the fact that the team has underachieved in a major way this regular season.
You keep ignoring 90% of my questions. Again, is offense or defense the bigger concern? Your first take was offense. Now it's defense. Which is it?
The Spurs were in the game mostly because the Mavs suck right now.
I don't disagree with that. However, you do realize that the Spurs won the game in the second half when they shot less free throws than normal, right?
The Spurs win by letting the other team shoot 50% for 43:30 of the game and then shut them down for 4:30? You're talking about the San Antonio Spurs, right? The team that wins by playing solid defense all game long and slowly be surely wearing teams down until they crack? That's the Spurs I know.
Not the let's-turn-it-on-for-a-few-minutes Spurs. Again, would you prefer a regular season loss in which the Spurs played great for 47 minutes or a regular season win in which the Spurs played great for 1 minute? I know you'll ignore this question yet again but you can't blame me trying . . .
Yeah, they can actually. If they put together a string of games where the team plays solid defense all game long and adds in a consistently executing offense, my level of confidence would rise. Right now I think they can do that eventually but I'd like to actually see it happen.
Again, if the Spurs play like they did against the Mavs in a game in the playoffs, they lose 99% of the time in the playoffs. Average to bad defense for 90% of the game against a struggling team is unacceptable to me. But obviously, as long as the Spurs won, it appears as if most Spurs fans are fine with however they play. While I will take the win, it was far from impressive.
For the tone of this post, and the lack of the "Believe" signature, it seems you lost faith in this team
{Edit} Oh I see the original post had the signature after all
Now if you would argue with timvp he would question those numbers proving that they are incorrect
I like that he is accepting what I post. He never argued with me.
Because it's an internet discussion board. He's not going to stop posting them because someone disagrees with him.
"These" Mavs almost beat the Spurs in San Antonio during the 11 game streak. That they eventually showed up for a noon game is nothing the Spurs should be proud of either. When a team's been playing gutless basketball for a stretch, any sign of heart is better than none.
I guess it isn't. We'll just look at the shooting percentages of the other team and figure that's the mark of whether or not the Spurs played good defense. You don't even have to watch the games. The Spurs have never been in a situation in previous years where they didn't play particularly well for a stretch and then went on a run to blow the game open at some point. Nah, that's never happened. Since this is the first 5 minutes of championship defense the Spurs have played since the first quarter of the season, it's worth noting. I'd llike the Spurs to play 48 minutes of shut-down basketball too, but when they've been playing zero, I'll celebrate a few minutes at a time as a sign of good things to come.
Since Duncan's putback on the very play that Dirk got injured gave them the lead from being down by double digits minutes before, it's disingenuous to suggest that the game deserves an injury asterisk. Combined with your suggestion that the Spurs got "lucky" for taking care of the ball or for getting to the line, suggesting that you're placating the Mavs fans who like to accuse every Spurs team that beats them of being undeserving of the win is if nothing else logically defensible.
You took one of my examples and immediately concluded that they were make up calls, somehow to imply that I don't know enough about basketball to know the difference. A make-up call is to even out the game for an accidental whistle or a questionable call. They made incorrect calls all day long, and there was no rhyme or reason to it because there's no way they could have kept track of who was ahead or behind enough to even it out. If that's what you meant when you suggested that the Spurs were lucky to have only five or six turnovers, then I'd agree with you. Since you've taken the public position that I'm somehow "complaining" about the officiating when I was simply pointing out how bad the crew was, I presume that's not what you meant.
Yeah be sure to let us know when they show up, because basketball teams just suddenly turn it on when they've been playing like crap for the majority of the season, and showing signs of coming out of the funk just isn't enough. , it's hardly worthy of acknowledgement.
The Spurs defense showed up when it was needed, in the third quarter and beyond.
Expecting a ferocious defense for 40' rom >30 years old chaps for 82 games is less absurd than insane.
Spurs played a better than average deensive game overall against an excellent team, that was hitting difficult shots in the first half.
Very good game by Duncan and Finley. The latter finally looking better on defense. Solid games by Bowen Udoka and Vaughn.
Oberto and Thomas caused no harm.
I thought Parker was so-so untill I realized how well the team did point-wise when he was on the floor. That's the KEY statistic for a point guard.
Manu is to the point when you notice that he has forced and missed a few shots, and he still got 28 with >50% FGP. I actually disagree with TIMVP that Manu overlooked Duncan late. Howard was actually playing very good gambling defense.
Overall, Spurs are back on track. I would say, a little improvement in Parker outside shot, Barry and Horry back, and the rest of the crew is going to be there on time.
The Mavs were playing worse coming into this most recent game. Kidd had regressed and AJ is under fire. The Mavs were ripe for the picking and the Spurs barely picked them. It was nice to get the win but that was about all that was nice about the game.
The Spurs played better defense for longer in losses against the Pistons and Celtics. The Spurs happened to lose those games so fans started imploding and wondering whether the Spurs could be lucky enough to draft Michael Beasley. The Spurs played less championship basketball against the Mavs but thankfully the Mavs suck too much to take advantage of the 43 and a half minutes where the Spurs didn't play that good. If we should praise championship play, more praise should have been given after the Pistons and Celtics games.
First of all, a game isn't over because the Spurs went up by two points in the third quarter. I've seen too many Dirk free throw line parades to think that the Spurs going up two against the Mavs in the third quarter at a game in Dallas is an automatic win.
Second of all, I said the Spurs were lucky to hit 96% or whatever it was from the line. I didn't say they were lucky by getting to the line. RIF.
And asterisk smack shouldn't really faze Spurs fans anymore. I've learned to embrace asterisk smack. I'll take asterisk number five this year, thankyaverymush.
Other than that one makeup call you pointed out, what other plays did you have a problem with? This was the first Mavs vs. Spurs game in a long time that neither team's fanbase had a problem with the refereeing ... other than you. But perhaps you saw stuff nobody else saw ... that's why I ask.
Again, I saw more championship basketball against the Pistons and Celtics. I point that out and get blasted for not being sad enough about a loss or whatever.
I guess I have learned that I should only acknowledge positives if the Spurs end up winning the game. I should also exaggerate those positives even if they only lasted for about four minutes of action. If the Spurs lose, I should know the Spurs sucked the whole game and that the Spurs need to tank. I apologize for my slow learning curve on this matter.
Either you posted this in the wrong thread or else I really do need to go watch the Mav game again . . .
The first one you wrote.
One more time, slowly.
When they aren't going to the free throw line and jacking up threes like they're going out of style, I worry about the offense.
IN . . . THIS . . . GAME . . . THEY . . . WERE . . . GETTING . . . TO . . . THE . . . LINE . . . AND . . . THAT . . . MADE . . . ME . . . HAPPY. IF . . . THEY . . . GO . . . BACK . . . TO . . . NOT . . . DOING . . . THAT . . . I . . . WILL . . . CONTINUE . . . TO . . . WORRY.
First of all, it's not "one more trip to the line" than they've averaged all sseason, but I guess I just have to move past your sloppiness with statistics. And as I've already said, and YOU keep conveniently ignoring, that increase is the difference between ranking in the bottom 10% of the league and ranking in the upper half.
I "ignore" your questions because frankly, they aren't really questions. They're just your usual device to shift attention away from the point being made.Not the let's-turn-it-on-for-a-few-minutes Spurs. Again, would you prefer a regular season loss in which the Spurs played great for 47 minutes or a regular season win in which the Spurs played great for 1 minute? I know you'll ignore this question yet again but you can't blame me trying . . .
Tell you what I'll answer your "question" if you answer a question: Did the Spurs stay in the game the first half because they got to the free throw line?
And the answer to your question is . . . it depends on the opponent. And I haven't seen the Spurs play great for 47 minutes, or even close to it, in any of the "good losses" you're so happy about.
Last edited by ShoogarBear; 03-27-2008 at 04:05 AM.
I'm talking about the whole season, not the game against the Mavs. You worry about the offense more than the defense?
Because the Spurs shot two more free throws than they average in the first half against the Mavs, you weren't worried. Yeah, we've already covered that. That's not the question I'm asking.
Spurs average 11 free throws per half. In the first half against the Mavs, the Spurs shot 13 free throws. 13 - 11 = 2 = one trip to the line.
Which part of that stat do you have a problem with?
I'm talking about the context of just the Mav game. The Spurs shot 13 first half free throws. The Spurs average 11 free throws per half. If the Spurs hadn't made you stop worrying and only shot 11 free throws instead of 13, they would have been down by six instead of four.
You can extrapolate all you want but those two points in the first half meant nothing.
What kind of question is that? Did they stay in the game because they got to the free throw line two more times than their average? No, absolutely not. Down four or down six going into halftime is the same crap.
If you are asking me if the Spurs going to the line 13 times instead of 0 times kept them in the game, then yeah it did. But what point would that prove? The dilettante Spurs average 11 free throws per half. You can't use 0 as the "not getting to the line" number ... you gotta use 11.
Are you telling me those two extra free throws in that specific game were the difference between the win and the loss?
Link to the last time I was happy about a loss? Link to a regular season loss you weren't mad about?
No, the Mavericks were playing better. They'd won five winnable games in a row and had two heartbreakers against LA and Boston coming in. This was the biggest game of the season for them because it was a winning team, a western team, a division opponent, and the Spurs. The Spurs beat them by more points than either Boston or LA did, but that's all because of Dirk's injury.
Yeah, getting outrebounded 51-39 and a blown 22 point lead (respectively) are both reasons to start planning a parade. Save your "Offense or defense" arguments for Shoog; cherry picking to serve your argument isn't going to bail you out. If you are going to put a stopwatch on the amount of time the opponent doesn't make baskets so you have a field goal percentage that suits you then you can't see the difference between championship basketball and Van Gundy-ball. Getting rebounds, going on timely runs, taking care of the ball, playing good defense and closing out games are all part of championship basketball. The Pistons and Celtics games were good starts, but no better than the Dallas game.
Since your argument has been that I'm a homer for suggesting that the Spurs deseve credit for closing out that game, then the game WAS over at that very point because Dirk got hurt. You really need to make up your mind what your position is.
And you accuse me of complaining about the officiating?
That could read as percentage and/or number of attempts. Since you didn't in-fact say they were "lucky to hit 96% or whatever", reading comprehension smack comes off kind of weak.
Well put. I wholeheartedly agree.
Fanbases see calls against their own team, and nothing else. You know I have a long history of defending the NBA refs. I try to watch the officiating as a whole, and this was one of those bad games. I still have the game recorded and would be happy to go back through and come up with a dozen examples for you. Sometimes crews get whistle happy. Sometimes crews just don't have a good game. Since there really was no rhyme or reason to the pattern I thought there was some bizarre combination of both and decided this was a good place to offer the otherwise random observation. I really hadn't anticipated that you'd try to accuse me of whining about the refs just because I disagreed with your other points, or I probably wouldn't have bothered to bring it up.
I'm fairly sure I never blasted you for that. I think you should probably take issue with those folks and actually address my points. A solid first quarter of championship basketball is something Kings fans should be excited about, not Spurs fans in late March. Call me kooky, but I'm a lot more impressed when they can wear down an opponent and close them out in the second half, while taking care of the ball and actually winning the rebounding battles. Being up 1 at the end is a W, being up 22 in the first quarter is lucky to qualify as a moral victory.
Yeah, I get it. I dared to disagree, and now you think I'm one of the people I created my avatar for. Nothing gets by you.
Since you won't even acknowledge rebounding or effort or a run because you are so locked into 4 minutes of field goal percentage as motivation for your game thoughts, I have a feeling you haven't "learned" much of anything.
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