Do people honestly think that Manu is the MVP of this team?

[ShoogarBear]

When Manu has a bad game, he can hide a little bit where he's not getting in the way. When Duncan has a bad game, we still revolve around him (at least defensively) and we're still better off with him on the court.

Sounds like the definition of an MVP.

That said, I'd still want Manu out there in the 4th quarter even if he was 0-16 for the first three.

Not arguing that.

[MmP]

I think people here don't realize that some are discussing different things...
TD has and will be the MVP of the team.
As for this season (only) Manu has been the MVP.

[ShoogarBear]

For this year, THIS YEAR, if you take Manu off the Spurs, they are probably out of the playoff race in the West.

And if you took Duncan off, the Spurs wouldn't make the NIT.

[ducks]

What does that have to do with anything?

most here are manu homers so they are not objective

[All Seeing Eye]

Ginobili should stop flopping. Someone's going to get hurt.

[timaios]

This thread is useless.
I don't care who is the mvp, basketball is a TEAM sport.
I love the TEAM.

And all begin with the playoffs !!!

Tim is boring with the regular season, he will be huge for the repeat.
Manu has his best season ever !
Tony is Tony again.
Bruce is ready for the west "dirty" battle.

We need all of them (and the others) for the le.

[ShoogarBear]

What does that have to do with anything?

Well, to start with it provides an insight into why people might think Manu is the MVP.

And basketball-wise, perhaps it indicates that the Spurs can compensate for bad games by Manu more easily than they can those by Duncan?

[TwoHandJam]

But see, now you're adding additional constraints to the argument.

My point is that NOBODY else in the league can currently replace what Duncan does, no matter how you phrase the question.

You can't say the same about any other player on the Spurs. Actually, you could argue that the second-most irreplacable is Bowen, since the list of shut-down perimeter defenders in the league is minimal.

I already agreed that Tim is the MVP of our team. You said that Manu could be replaced by others in the NBA.

I'm just qualifying that term "replaced". I don't think you can find another NBA player who can do what Manu does for us. If you want to remain realistic, you have to consider the other very real constraints of the league. It's also not a given that Kobe/LeBron would retain Manu's level of efficiency if you reduce their minutes and/or have them come off the bench.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

most here are manu homers so they are not objective

that's such a cop out. I think some people have made some valid points. Its easier to label people homers and disregard what's said than to actually focus on the subject at hand. I'm not saying there aren't manu homers in here because... well, I can read, but I do think Manu has been sensational this year, to the point that one could make a decent argument for his Spurs MVP status (THIS SEASON). The fact that an argument can be made is incredible in its own right.

[td4mvp21]

Oh comon thats pure bias, for god sakes your name IS td4mvp21.

I don't give a what my username is. It doesn't affect my logic at all.

The Spurs without Duncan would still be a 7th or 8th seed.

Not in this year's playoff race. We would be lucky to win 50 games.

If you haven't noticed, everything no longer goes through Tim every possession and Manu is the team's playmaker.

, I watch every ing Spurs game. You watch 4-10 PER YEAR. I know how the offense works. The offense doesn't go through Tim because we have two damn good players in Parker and Ginobili that can take the load off of Duncan in the regular season. In the playoffs, guess who the offense goes through? Tim Duncan. If Pop wanted to rely on Duncan and play him 38 mpg, and run the offense through him, he'd be averaging about 26 and 14 I'd bet. He doesn't have to touch the ball on every possession for the Spurs to win. But he is the core of this team, just because the offesne doesn't not run through him in the ing regular season does not change that fact.

I'll never understand why fans of certain teams hate on one of their own, especially someone as great as Manu.

Quote me and show me where the I hated on Manu, or Tony, for that matter? I have offered nothing but praise for them, as they deserve. Just because I say they aren't the MVP doens't equate that to hate. Not at all.

Ignorant, stupid posts like yours piss me the off. You're a ing Mavs fan, you don't watch more than 15 Spurs games per year and you're telling us who the Spurs MVP is? Bull to that.

[td4mvp21]

most here are manu homers so they are not objective

Manumaniac has been pretty objective this thread. You are the biased one ducks.

[ShoogarBear]

I already agreed that Tim is the MVP of our team. You said that Manu could be replaced by others in the NBA.

I'm just qualifying that term "replaced". I don't think you can find another NBA player who can do what Manu does for us. If you want to remain realistic, you have to consider the other very real constraints of the league. It's also not a given that Kobe/LeBron would retain Manu's level of efficiency if you reduce their minutes and/or have them come off the bench.

Of course, if you're going to do all that, then you can say that Bowen is just as irreplacable.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Well, to start with it provides an insight into why people might think Manu is the MVP.

And basketball-wise, perhaps it indicates that the Spurs can compensate for bad games by Manu more easily than they can those by Duncan?

ok, point taken.

Still, you really don't think Manu has been as valuable to the Spurs success this season as Tim has? or more importantly how big do you see the gap between Tim's contributions and Manu's, being?

[ducks]

Manumaniac has been pretty objective this thread. You are the biased one ducks.

other ones in this thread do not think manu is the mvp
are they biased?
I am not saying Manumaniac was being biased?
I am just stating the reason I thought shogabear posted that

[TheTruth]

Didn't read the whole thread, but to say that anyone other than Timmy is the Spurs' MVP is just plain stupid. Manu doesn't have near the room to operate if Timmy doesn't have those double teams in the post. A dominant post player will ALWAYS be more valuable than a dominant perimeter player. I don't care how many game winning shot's the guard or forward scores.

[TheTruth]

ok, point taken.

Still, you really don't think Manu has been as valuable to the Spurs success this season as Tim has? or more importantly how big do you see the gap between Tim's contributions and Manu's, being?

Manu's importance is more reliant on Timmy than the other way around.

[TheTruth]

Ginobili should stop flopping. Someone's going to get hurt.

Raja Bell for the win.

[DAF86]

the spurs MVP was is and will always be Tim Duncan. with that beign said i do think that this season our best player has been Manu not only because he has carry this team for most part of the season but also for the games in which he did this.
37 pts. against the mavs and jazz without duncan, during the rodeo trip without parker and on every close game that needed a clutch play while he let the others take over against the bulls, kings and others sub .500 teams.
and for those that say that manu is only scoring look at this number for a subSG that plays only 30 min per game 4.6 assts. 4.8 rebs. and 1.7 stls. not to mention that he's 1st in the team in scoring but only 3rd in FG attemps.
without duncan this team isn't a championship contender but without manu either.
oh, i almost forgot. for the few ones saying that manu isn't the spurs 2nd best player, you should learn a little bit more about basketball

[E20]

Well, to start with it provides an insight into why people might think Manu is the MVP.

And basketball-wise, perhaps it indicates that the Spurs can compensate for bad games by Manu more easily than they can those by Duncan?

Whose had more bad games this season? Manu or Duncan? Manu plays a lot, not all of his minutes, when Tim and Tony are on the bench.

[mavs>spurs2]

I don't give a what my username is. It doesn't affect my logic at all.


Not in this year's playoff race. We would be lucky to win 50 games.


, I watch every ing Spurs game. You watch 4-10 PER YEAR. I know how the offense works. The offense doesn't go through Tim because we have two damn good players in Parker and Ginobili that can take the load off of Duncan in the regular season. In the playoffs, guess who the offense goes through? Tim Duncan. If Pop wanted to rely on Duncan and play him 38 mpg, and run the offense through him, he'd be averaging about 26 and 14 I'd bet. He doesn't have to touch the ball on every possession for the Spurs to win. But he is the core of this team, just because the offesne doesn't not run through him in the ing regular season does not change that fact.


Quote me and show me where the I hated on Manu, or Tony, for that matter? I have offered nothing but praise for them, as they deserve. Just because I say they aren't the MVP doens't equate that to hate. Not at all.

Ignorant, stupid posts like yours piss me the off. You're a ing Mavs fan, you don't watch more than 15 Spurs games per year and you're telling us who the Spurs MVP is? Bull to that.

Your excessive cursing lets me know right off the bat who is right and who is wrong here.

You say that the Spurs would not make the playoffs without Duncan, but they would still make it without Tony, and Manu. That is a two way street, the Spurs are 5 games from the 9th seed AT FULL STRENGTH. Meaning no team could make the playoffs this year with key components out for the season.

You about me not watching enough Spur games and you are their number one fan blah blah blah..you have no idea how many games I watch or don't watch and I DO happen to know alot about all things basketball. I'm not alone in my assertion that Manu is this years MVP for the Spurs regular season. The man has been absolutely amazing and nothing short of it. His stats are up in every major category, but i'm not basing my opinion off stats. Watch the games, and you will see that Manu is the teams best playmaker for the 2007-2008 REGULAR SEASON, NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS, that is what this discussion is about. Tim is a great player, but if you cannot handle an honest basketball discussion without getting your feelings hurt then what are you doing on a sports messageboard? You know that saying..Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

[JamStone]

And if you took Duncan off, the Spurs wouldn't make the NIT.

Without Tim Duncan this season, but with both Manu and Parker still, the Spurs are 2-1, beating both Dallas and Utah, and losing to Golden State at Golden State by 8 points.

[TheTruth]

Whose had more bad games this season? Manu or Duncan?

Tim's bad games usually include about 12 rebounds and double teams on him all game long. Those double teams are what create all the room for Manu to be Manu.

Manu is a bad ass no doubt. Timmy is more important to the Spurs. Especially when things get real rough in the playoffs.

[E20]

Rebounds don't really put up points on the board.

[ducks]

Rebounds don't really put up points on the board.

no because the d rebound keeps the other team from scoring true

[mavs>spurs2]

Didn't read the whole thread, but to say that anyone other than Timmy is the Spurs' MVP is just plain stupid. Manu doesn't have near the room to operate if Timmy doesn't have those double teams in the post. A dominant post player will ALWAYS be more valuable than a dominant perimeter player. I don't care how many game winning shot's the guard or forward scores.

You just said it, you didn't read the whole thread and don't pay attention to detail. Your opinions are probably just based on the fact that Tim has been the face of this team for the past decade, and nothing more. This discussion is only about the 2007-2008 regular season. I agree Tim Duncan has had the better NBA career by a longshot.