ESPN MVP votes...Hollinger has Kobe in 4th. LOL

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe will get it because he took his team to the top of the most difficult and compe ive conference in recent history.

If that's the reasoning, then there's no argument from me. However, let's not fool ourselves into believing that Manu would have gotten it if the Spurs had been in first, or Deron Williams would have gotten it if Utah had.

Yup, that precedent was set in 2005-06

Yep, that's what I was referring to. I think I prefer the "best player on the team with the best record" thing. Again, as good as the west has been that still makes a strong case for Kobe.

[DazedAndConfused]

If that's the reasoning, then there's no argument from me. However, let's not fool ourselves into believing that Manu would have gotten it if the Spurs had been in first, or Deron Williams would have gotten it if Utah had.


Yep, that's what I was referring to. I think I prefer the "best player on the team with the best record" thing. Again, as good as the west has been that still makes a strong case for Kobe.

Neither Ginobli or Williams are the best player on their respective teams.

Kobe, Garnett, CP3 - nobody can really argue that these players are the foundation upon which their teams are built around.

[Obstructed_View]

Neither Ginobli or Williams are the best player on their respective teams.

Manu was the only Spur in the MVP discussion, and if you aren't going to use the number one seed in the west to support Kobe's MVP, then it's valid.

It's amazing how good a teammate Kobe suddenly becomes when he has good teammates.

[kingmalaki]

You may laugh at .500 ball but .500 ball while missing your two starters is incredibly good. Look at where Miami went when Shaq and DWade went down at the same time.

Miami had two stars (Shaq & Wade) and a weak bench. So when one star went down they were left with one star, surrounded by role players. When Bynum or Gasol went down, Kobe was still left with Odom (not an all-star but just as good as either Peja or Chandler) and a very good bench.

Pau is the #2 option, Lamar Odom is the #3 option
Even though Pau and Bynum didn't play together, they're both starters.

You keep saying Kobe was missing two starters when that isn't the case. The two dudes never played 1 game together. If anything, he was without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games.

The Lakers went 20 games without their Starting Center and Starting Power Forward, and they maintained .500 ball.

No, they went 20 games without a key third piece. They lost one big man and were given another to replace the one they lost, with hopes to dominate once they both came back. With all this spin y'all should go work on the Clinton campaign.

Take David West and Tyson Chandler off the Hornets (at the SAME time) for 1/4 of the season and tell me they could have maintained .500. Would they still even be in the Playoffs?

Quite possible, if you let the team still have one star player (either West or Peja) and a quality bench. The Rockets went 19-7 without Yao and he was never replaced with a star so it's quite doable. .500 ball is not as acceptable as you make it seem, when you still have Oodm and a bench.

Answer this question....with Kobe, Odom, Bynum or Gasol (either or, not both), and LA's bench....how many teams outside of SA, Bos, Det amd ,aybe Pho have as much talent as that team? LA won a lot of games when all 3 were together and played average when one of them was missing. Koeb is a worthy MVP candidate. He had to deal with some injuries to key people (around 20+ games) while others MVP candidates like Paul didn't. However, the Lakers had 3 kep pieces and a bench for the majority of the season. And if T-Mac (lesser player) can lose Yao and carry the likes of Battier (only really quality player), Mutombo (41 yr old), Scola & Landry (two rookies, and landry also was hurt after yao went down), Alston (worse PG than Fisher, and Alston also went down for a while), B.Jackson (like 36 years old), Brooks (undersized rookie), Hayes and Harris (undrafted dudes) and Novak (2nd rounder who can only shoot) to a 73% winning clip over 26 games, then Kobe leading a more talented LA squad to .500 ball doesn't really impress me. Again, he is MVP worthy but you guys overstate him leading some hurt scrubs to the #1 seed. The spin attempt is not necessary....

[The Franchise]

I hate Chris Paul but he deserves the MVP more than anyone. If anyone says they expected the Hornets to have the year they had they would be lying. Take Paul out of the equation and what do you have? A big pile of for a team sitting in the NBA cellar. Kobe, and Garnett have had good seasons, but they are blessed with good supporting casts and strong benches. Tyson Chandler without Chris Paul? Playing in Europe. David West? Solid role player. Peja? Retired. Mopete? Just what he is ( ). This man and his contributions are exactly what the award was made for. Voting for anyone else would be voting for the popular and not the proper.

[TheMACHINE]

I hate Kobe Bryant but he deserves the MVP more than anyone. If anyone says they expected the Lakers to have the year they had they would be lying. Take Kobe out of the equation and what do you have? A big pile of for a team sitting in the NBA cellar. Chris Paul and Garnett have had good seasons, but they are blessed with good supporting casts and strong benches. Radman without Kobe? Playing in Europe. Lamar Odom? Solid role player. Fisher? Retired. Sasha? Just what he is ( ). This man and his contributions are exactly what the award was made for. Voting for anyone else would be voting for the popular and not the proper.

Crazy how you can sub in names and its sound just about right.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe deserves the MVP. He's also the best basketball player on the planet. Hate on you crazy haters.

Chimpy Hollinger is a little . Michael Jordan's . He fantasizes about His Airness' in his mouth. And he just picked the Jazz to beat the Lakers in the second round.

[Allanon]

Miami had two stars (Shaq & Wade) and a weak bench. So when one star went down they were left with one star, surrounded by role players. When Bynum or Gasol went down, Kobe was still left with Odom (not an all-star but just as good as either Peja or Chandler) and a very good bench.

Bynum AND Gasol were not in for 20 games. Bynum OR Gasol were in for the other games. Change it or spin it however you want, both are starters so that's 2. And when they're back, they will BOTH be playing at the same time.

You keep saying Kobe was missing two starters when that isn't the case. The two dudes never played 1 game together. If anything, he was without a key 3rd piece for 20+ games.

Was Bynum a Starter? Is Pau a Starter? That's 1+1=2 Starters missing for 20 games.

No, they went 20 games without a key third piece. They lost one big man and were given another to replace the one they lost, with hopes to dominate once they both came back. With all this spin y'all should go work on the Clinton campaign.

Again, you can't seem to count, Bynum and Pau were missing for 20 games in the season. They would be Starters, that's 2 pieces whether you want to dismiss them as #2,#3 options.[quote]

Quite possible, if you let the team still have one star player (either West or Peja) and a quality bench. The Rockets went 19-7 without Yao and he was never replaced with a star so it's quite doable. .500 ball is not as acceptable as you make it seem, when you still have Oodm and a bench.

Sure, if you leave them with Peja or Chandler. But that's not the case with the Lakers, Answer the question with BOTH Peja or Chandler missing and then you can dismiss the .500 ball.

Answer this question....with Kobe, Odom, Bynum or Gasol (either or, not both), and LA's bench....how many teams outside of SA, Bos, Det amd ,aybe Pho have as much talent as that team? LA won a lot of games when all 3 were together and played average when one of them was missing.

LA is extremely talented when they have either Pau OR Bynum. LA is ridiculously talented with BOTH Bynum and Pau.

Koeb is a worthy MVP candidate. He had to deal with some injuries to key people (around 20+ games) while others MVP candidates like Paul didn't.

This is incorrect, Lakers have been dealing with Injuries to either Pau or Bynum for 60 games. Just because the Lakers have Pau, it doesn't mean that their starting Center ISN'T injured. He is injured and he's hoping to come back soon.

However, the Lakers had 3 kep pieces and a bench for the majority of the season. And if T-Mac (lesser player) can lose Yao and carry the likes of Battier (only really quality player), Mutombo (41 yr old), Scola & Landry (two rookies, and landry also was hurt after yao went down), Alston (worse PG than Fisher, and Alston also went down for a while), B.Jackson (like 36 years old), Brooks (undersized rookie), Hayes and Harris (undrafted dudes) and Novak (2nd rounder who can only shoot) to a 73% winning clip over 26 games, then Kobe leading a more talented LA squad to .500 ball doesn't really impress me. Again, he is MVP worthy but you guys overstate him leading some hurt scrubs to the #1 seed. The spin attempt is not necessary....

The Rockets 22 game run was nothing short of Miraculous, big kudos to them. I'm not going to discount it at all, they won and did something very special.

We're talking about 2 starters, Yao is only 1 starter, take out Scola as well for 20 games and you have a similar situation. But you can't replace apples with oranges. Whether you spin it or not, the Lakers were missing their Starting Power Forward AND Starting Center for 20 games. I don't doubt that the Lakers have a deeper bench at all.

We've all seen what missing 2 starters will do your team, playing .500 while having 2 key players out is GREAT.

[kingmalaki]

Bynum AND Gasol were not in for 20 games. Bynum OR Gasol were in for the other games. Change it or spin it however you want, both are starters so that's 2. And when they're back, they will BOTH be playing at the same time.



Was Bynum a Starter? Is Pau a Starter? That's 1+1=2 Starters missing for 20 games.



Again, you can't seem to count, Bynum and Pau were missing for 20 games in the season. They would be Starters, that's 2 pieces whether you want to dismiss them as #2,#3 options.



Sure, if you leave them with Peja or Chandler. But that's not the case with the Lakers, Answer the question with BOTH Peja or Chandler missing and then you can dismiss the .500 ball.



LA is extremely talented when they have either Pau OR Bynum. LA is ridiculously talented with BOTH Bynum and Pau.



This is incorrect, Lakers have been dealing with Injuries to either Pau or Bynum for 60 games. Just because the Lakers have Pau, it doesn't mean that their starting Center ISN'T injured. He is injured and he's hoping to come back soon.



The Rockets 22 game run was nothing short of Miraculous, big kudos to them. I'm not going to discount it at all, they won and did something very special.

We're talking about 2 starters, Yao is only 1 starter, take out Scola as well for 20 games and you have a similar situation. But you can't replace apples with oranges. Whether you spin it or not, the Lakers were missing their Starting Power Forward AND Starting Center for 20 games. I don't doubt that the Lakers have a deeper bench at all.

We've all seen what missing 2 starters will do your team, playing .500 while having 2 key players out is GREAT.

Simple question...did the Lakers have three top players on the court together for around 60 games of the season (either Kobe/Odom/Bynum or Kobe/Odom/Gasol)? Yes or no?

Yeah, they didn't get to have the full team together as Bynum and Gasol never played one game together. But that is not the spin some of y'all are trying to make. That 3some that played for around 60 games (pick either one), plus LA's bench, is more talent than 90% of the league. Kobe/Odom and the bench is more than enough talent to play much better than near .500 ball. You keep focusing on who was missing and ignoring who was still there. You act like Kobe, Odom and that bench still isn't a very talented team...much more talented to only play .500 ball. It's the same way that the Celtics shouldn't be expected to only play .500 ball if one of the big 3 goes down because of the rest of the remaining talent.

I mentioned Yao and the Rockets not to try to compare who is missing who, but to show that Kobes surrounding talent minus Bynum/Gasol was still better than the T-Mac's surrounding talent minus Yao...so playing a little over .500 ball doesn't impress me as much when a worse star led a worse team to a better % over the same stretch of games.

Again, Kobe is MVp worthy but he has not been playing on some talentless, injury riddled team all season.

[Allanon]

Talentless, no. But injury riddled yes. At one point, they were compoletely out of Centers. Not only are they 2 starters, they're also the 2 big men in the paint. Playing .500 with your two big men out is great.

Regardless of how they did or who is on the team, the fact remains that those 20 games were without 2 starters. There's no spin on it, 20 is 20, that's a fact.