How the F do you sit Barry Down with 4 to play, Pop?

[polandprzem]

wtf?

One night Ginobili can guard Kobe the next night he can't guard nobody cause he is fatigued.

And saying that Odom would get any ball of the board is ridiculus cause you simply don't know it.

what you know is that with motion offense spurs had better chance when with Oberto right there on D.

Take a look at last 6 minutes once again timvp



And Aggie

We talk about spurs here

[1Parker1]

The same people who complain about small ball are the ones now complaining the Spurs didn't go small. Spurs fans can't have it both ways. If AHF wants to come in here and admit the Spurs should have gone small, then let him. He won't though because he's Mr. Anti Small Ball.

I can usually live with small ball but on a night when rebounding was the number one thing killing the team, you can't go to super small ball for the whole fourth quarter. That's just lunacy. A banged up Ginobili at power forward? Really?

And yes, Kobe is an easier guard for Manu than Odom is because Odom is taller, longer and gets great position in the triangle offense. On top of that, he's always in position to get the offensive rebound. A 100% healthy Manu might be able to handle Odom but not this Manu.

More than maybe anything else, Manu's fatigue/injury has almost eliminated his ability to pull down rebounds in a crowd. Last year in the playoffs, Manu pulled down countless huge rebounds even when he wasn't scoring. This playoffs, he just doesn't have the lift to do that.

On a night when your starting "center" grabbed 3 rebounds and had a +- of -17, yea, I'd say you should probably roll with small ball. Wouldn't you rather go down with your best players on the court?

And rebounding and defense is a team effort, small ball relies on everyone crashing the boards. And Oberto didn't exactly do a good job himself there rebounding did he? Rebounding did hurt the team the entire game, no doubt that was the difference. However, in that stretch in the 4th quarter around the 5 minute mark, the Spurs were unable to score to take the lead once and for all. That is not that time you subs ute Oberto for Barry.

Bottom line, in that stretch, when the Spurs did get a stop, they couldn't either grab a rebound or make a shot at the other end. Oberto had a very, very, very weak pass off to Ginobili that led to the Kobe dunk. Oberto made Odom look like the 2nd coming of Scottie Pippen not just last night, but pretty much this entire series. Oberto hasn't done anything to stop Odom, the bad games Odom did have were just a result of him missing layups. So yea, I would have taken a limp Ginobili over Oberto any day.

And as you yourself have said Timvp, I thought Ginobili was at 80%? And even at that, can't you always count on Ginobili in crunch time to play bigger and better?

Duncan, Ginobili, Barry, Bowen, and Parker. That's the lineup that got the Spurs within 2 to end the game if I'm not mistaken....

[MoSpur]

I can't understand how there are people actually stating that Oberto needed to be in the game in the 4th for rebounding. He was in the game the other three quarters and didn't do much on rebounding so what is the difference in the 4th????

[nkdlunch]

It's bailing because you can't be a Manu fan when times are good and whine constantly to get him more shots -- and then in one of the rare times Manu is struggling you want him on the bench in the biggest game of teh season.

And yes, we've all seen Manu "suddenly start contributing". How many times throughout the years has Manu done little in the first three quarters and then explode in the fourth. He's done that time and time again.

a true Manu fan knows all Manu cares about is winning. and if this takes Manu sitting down late in the 4th. I'm for it and he's for it.

Of course he will never voluntarily ask to be sat down. But that's what Pop is for.

[nkdlunch]

If Duncan is 1-20 do you sit him in the final 4 minutes?

if he's getting abused on defense and not rebounding and turning the ball over and there is another big who has the "hot hand", yes you sit him.

[1Parker1]

Well, it looks like there are two different arguments going here; Those who wanted to sit Oberto and keep Ginobili and put in Barry. And those who wanted to sit Ginobili and put in Barry and...Oberto?

Hmmmm. I would definitely disagree with the sitting Ginobili part. I don't care if he's 0-24 at that point. If he's healthy enough to play, he's healthy enough to be in there. Didn't he hit that 3 pointer to pul within 5?

[MoSpur]

I for one did not want Manu in the game other than late in the fourth. I didn not want Orberto in the game in the fourth period.

[1Parker1]

^ So who the heck did you want in the game then?

[MoSpur]

I would have wanted Duncan, Parker, Barry, Bowen, and Udoka. To me, Udoka would have probably rebounded better than Orberto. IMO, he does a solid job guarding Odom because of his strength and is as quick as Odom. Udoka did a fine job in Game one frustrating Odom when he was guarding him.

[1Parker1]

The same Udoka who basically put a cap on the game with his 4 point play on Sasha Vuijic???

[MoSpur]

The same Udoka who basically put a cap on the game with his 4 point play on Sasha Vuijic???

Yeah that one. He had a brain fart and obviously Pop made him pay for it because we never saw him again. IMO, he did an awesome job on Odom and I think he does a great job on the boards for his size. C'mon 1Parker1, you know Udoka could have done better than Orberto.

[polandprzem]

The same Udoka who basically put a cap on the game with his 4 point play on Sasha Vuijic???

Who made the shot?

Udoka makes sense in some degree


But all in all I'm fed up with this talking.

It doesn't matter right now. Who cares?
Frustrating ending of a season...
goodnitee







pull one win pull one win pull one win

[1Parker1]

^But you're not picking Udoka over Oberto...you're picking Udoka over Barry and/or Ginobili and that doesn't make sense to me at all. Esp when Udoka doesn't really have any playoff game experience, he didn't do anything in the playing time he has been given in this series, and he made that bonehead play on Sasha Vuijic.

Which odds do you like better in crunch time; Udoka coming through after he'd gone 0-5 or whatever or Ginobili at the end of the game after he's gone 2-9 or whatever he had gone for? I'll take Ginobili.

[1Parker1]

Who made the shot?

Udoka makes sense in some degree


But all in all I'm fed up with this talking.

It doesn't matter right now. Who cares?
Frustrating ending of a season...
goodnitee







pull one win pull one win pull one win

Udoka flies at Sasha Vuijic who hits a 3 and gets a FT just as the Spurs were getting close.

[Spurs Brazil]

Well, it looks like there are two different arguments going here; Those who wanted to sit Oberto and keep Ginobili and put in Barry. And those who wanted to sit Ginobili and put in Barry and...Oberto?

Hmmmm. I would definitely disagree with the sitting Ginobili part. I don't care if he's 0-24 at that point. If he's healthy enough to play, he's healthy enough to be in there. Didn't he hit that 3 pointer to pul within 5?

The one I think last night was Barry in for Oberto. I'd like to see that but I don't blame Pop to not do it. We were sucking at the boards and even with Oberto with only 3 rebs I think he has more chance to get a board or box out than Barry.

That's why I don't blame Pop.

[MoSpur]

^But you're not picking Udoka over Oberto...you're picking Udoka over Barry and/or Ginobili and that doesn't make sense to me at all. Esp when Udoka doesn't really have any playoff game experience, he didn't do anything in the playing time he has been given in this series, and he made that bonehead play on Sasha Vuijic.

Which odds do you like better in crunch time; Udoka coming through after he'd gone 0-5 or whatever or Ginobili at the end of the game after he's gone 2-9 or whatever he had gone for? I'll take Ginobili.

In some degree. Late in the 4th, I want Manu in and Bowen out so that Manu drives to the basket to draw the foul or make a running layup. However, I want Barry in throughout most of the fourth to give us some offense. I want Orberto Out all of the 4th to put Udoka on Odom.

If the Spurs are down by two or three with about a minute to go, you call a timeout, take Udoka out, insert Manu along with Duncan, Barry, Parker and Bowen.

[Bob Lanier]

Small ball featuring Barry killed the Lakers in the second half of Game 3.

Odom can be confused - he really isn't a great passer out of the post if you bring quick double-teams.

[timvp]

Small ball featuring Barry killed the Lakers in the second half of Game 3.

Odom can be confused - he really isn't a great passer out of the post if you bring quick double-teams.

?

Small ball featuring Barry in Game 3 was on the court in the second half for three minutes. Both teams scored six points during that time. Plus Odom wasn't on the court so there was no mismatch.

Now people are just making things up.

[timvp]

On a night when your starting "center" grabbed 3 rebounds

And Ginobili grabbed one rebound. Ginobili has five rebounds in the last three games combined. In Game 4, how many times did players like Walton or Radmanovic sky over him for offensive rebounds? Putting Ginobili on Odom would have been game over.

Ginobili right not can't rebound at all. When was the last time he pulled down a rebound in a crowd?

In a regular game, I'd say that maybe you think about doing that even considering Ginobili's inability to rebound. However, in a game where your number one issue is defensive rebounding, you can't put the worst rebounder on the floor on the other team's best rebounder.

And people can question Oberto's rebounding numbers but the fact is the Lakers didn't grab an offensive rebound in the second half with Oberto on the floor. As I said, he was boxing out in the second half and allowing Duncan to get a clean look at all the defensive rebounds.

[timvp]

I can't understand how there are people actually stating that Oberto needed to be in the game in the 4th for rebounding. He was in the game the other three quarters and didn't do much on rebounding so what is the difference in the 4th????

Because the Lakers weren't grabbing offensive rebounds when Oberto was in the game.

a true Manu fan knows all Manu cares about is winning. and if this takes Manu sitting down late in the 4th. I'm for it and he's for it.

Of course he will never voluntarily ask to be sat down. But that's what Pop is for.

Manu said he'll let Pop know if he's hurting the team. I trust that if Manu doesn't think he's helping, he'll sit. As you said, Manu only cares about winning.

I would have wanted Duncan, Parker, Barry, Bowen, and Udoka. To me, Udoka would have probably rebounded better than Orberto. IMO, he does a solid job guarding Odom because of his strength and is as quick as Odom. Udoka did a fine job in Game one frustrating Odom when he was guarding him.

Udoka has gone straight up Hedo in this series. He went from being a solid defender all year to becoming a joke of a defender in this series. You put him on the court, PJax will force him to sink or swim ... and with the way Udoka has played in this series, he'd sink instantly.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Udoka has gone straight up Hedo in this series. He went from being a solid defender all year to becoming a joke of a defender in this series.

[jag]

blame pop all you want, but Pop didn't make the Spurs shoot 7-24 from downtown last night.

[MannyIsGod]

Because the Lakers weren't grabbing offensive rebounds when Oberto was in the game.

Manu said he'll let Pop know if he's hurting the team. I trust that if Manu doesn't think he's helping, he'll sit. As you said, Manu only cares about winning.

Udoka has gone straight up Hedo in this series. He went from being a solid defender all year to becoming a joke of a defender in this series. You put him on the court, PJax will force him to sink or swim ... and with the way Udoka has played in this series, he'd sink instantly.

I love Udoka, but he came up with the worst play of the night which probably did a ton to kill the Spurs momentum. That four point play at the end of the third was really really really back breaking.

[Emanuel20]

I am just glad that Pop played more Brent and maybe he will start next game!

[GrandeDavid]

and stop tossing his salad?