that's was Pop's thinking. I saw it different.
Manu hasn't been able to create offense all by himself for the team since OT in game 1 against the Suns.
Besides Tony and Tim getting their layups, he's the one who's most deadly against defenses in isolation. It's just rather unfortunate that his potency is missing. He's our best creator..
No ducks, you suck a mighty french one.
The Spurs had a great run. 4 championships in 9 years is dynastic in my book. Just like the Lakers of the 80's, MJ and his Bulls, all good things come to an end. Teams age and the Spurs simply got old, and got beat by a better team tonight.
all the props in the world to LA, but I feel we all got cheated. LA, because they deserve a lot of credit which they still might get, but also SA because we had another .4 type of game in the making. INstead JOey Crawford decided to end the game in controversy.
Next year, we'll need a better squad to keep Ginobili ready for the playoffs.
Back to the topic of this thread, this series wasn't all about Manu. Manu is a damn good player but the Spurs are best when they can win even when Manu isn't at his best. Go look at last year in the playoffs. They won more games than they lost when Manu was held to under ten points.
This year if Manu is held under ten points, the Spurs have almost no shot. Like I've said during all this complaining about Manu in the last week, his one flaw is inconsistency. If the Spurs are going to live and die by Manu, you have to expect off nights.
Manu isn't to blame. He could bounce back in Game 5 and go for 40. That's what he does. Spurs have to win with what they have and they've done so in the past.
Blaming Manu for being inconsistent is like blaming Parker for being French or blaming Duncan not hitting more three-pointers.
Yeah, and the Spurs are going to win this series in 7. Shut your hole. Manu played like a puss tonight.
To be fair, Manu seemed pretty consistant during the regular season when he was relied upon to carry the team while Tim and Tony were out with injuries but yes he's always been inconsistent. But this is just weird and I've never seen Manu play so badly. It just doesn't even look like the same Manu that we all love. His decision making has been awful because he can't score and he doesn't come out with the same energy or explosiveness that makes him great.
you're confusing banged up with inconsistentcy. He's not the most durable guy in the world.
I wish Manu was healthy. Not making excuses. But if he had a fresh ankle and a damn fingernail, we could be talking 3-1 Spurs.
Ginobili's only chance is to go Horry and settle for being a top notch role player. Otherwise, he has 1 or 2 years left.
LA is without Bynum, Spurs have been relatively healthy in the past. Injuries are just part of the game. Championship teams just deal with it.
I agree with Kori. That would be the stupidest move the spurs could make. When Parker and Duncan where hurt, he was putting up stellar numbers in the season. He put the whole team on his back, and carried them throughout that injury period. Manu is my favorite player, and yes he sucked tonight, but someone else needs to step up and help duncan out. I mean , he did it, why can't anyone else.
Parker dominated the Phoenix series, and seems to only perform when we're making outside shots. Unfortunately for us, we haven't been to good on the outside. Duncan is doing his normal every day grind, but we need someone else who can come in and consistently score, throughout the season, and playoffs. Manu is obviously hurt, and it's affecting his play. Anyone that can't see that is just pissed at him for not doing well.
Has he always been banged up? Because he's been inconsistent in the playoffs and regular seasons. Look at the last three playoffs and see how he'll score 35 one night, score 8 the next night and come back with 28 the next night. That's Puro Ginobili. Even Oberto talked about how in Europe, Ginobili would always follow up bad games with good games.
And that's not even a knock on him. Having one flaw isn't a bad thing. When Manu averages 20 points in a series, it's usually because he score 30 three times and 10 three times.
Again, if the Spurs are going to construct their team in a way that demand Ginobili score 20 points each and every night, they aren't going to be too successful and they aren't using the great player that is Manu Ginobili correctly.
Series is all about our role players stepping up in place of an off-night of the big three. As a matter of fact, this entire year and last year was based on the same principle. Any year for any team really. Teams need their Steve Kerrs, their Brent Barrys, their Pejas to step up to the plate.
Unfortunately advanced age has made this difficult for the Spurs. As players age they get more inconsistent, and that's dangerous when Manu himself is inconsistent.
he is somewhat inconsistent I give you that, but his all-around game and crunch time performances allows him to disguise the weakness. However, he's got a lot of Larry Bird in him. Talent, some athleticism, too much body contact.
Didn't seem to bother him last game. 30 points. Just an excuse to avoid admitting that the Lakers are just better
get lost troll.
Next year, the Lakers will be more experienced, and they will have Andrew Bynum. This year is the last chance of the Spurs but the Lakers will have nothing to do with it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if Manu were playing anywhere near what he's capable of that the Spurs win this series in 5 or 6.
That being said, the biggest reason the Spurs are in this hole can be summed up in one word... Fatigue.
This team plays with zero room for error. Just about every aspect of their game (defense,rebounding,scoring) is contingent on timing, mental focus, and effort. It's about playing on a string, both offensively and defensively. And when it's off just a hair... Well, that's how a team this good can be blown-out so often.
They just haven't had the "juice" to get to their spots, or to loose balls. Other than the first half of game 1, and the majority of game 3(which probably had more to do with adrenaline), they've just been a step slow physically and mentally.
All that being said, I'm not sure I've ever been more proud of a team. The grit and mental toughness this team has displayed has been pretty in amazing, to say the least. Hopefully they'll be able to use it to extend the series, and give themselves a chance at making some history.
it's so crazy to try talk calmly and objectively about manu.
to win the spurs need each one of our big 4 (tim, tony, manu and Bruce) to play at their best. No one outside them is consistent enough to help us.
Tony is at the required level in these PO. he's not outstanding in this serie as he was before but get the job done.
Tim isn't as dominant as he was in offense but he's right there, providing us his defense, rebounds and scoring even at a rather low % for him.
Bruce is there in these PO. Obviously, against kobe, it's hard for him, but he's the one able to contain him.
Manu isn't simply at the required level. in offense and in defense. He was hampered in some games but has really a bad way to deal with it. with someone of our big three not scoring well and at a good %, we're in big trouble.
it's just so funny that there were some posts about manu being our main man in these PO where he's simply killing us. i'm not bashing him, he does what he can and he surely feels bad about it, but a fact is a fact.
Last edited by kace; 05-28-2008 at 04:34 AM.
It wasn't about Manu at all...
It was about POP not recognizing Manu's limitations sooner...and bringing in Barry when it's obvious to every 12 yr old out there Manu is not doing it on a certain night.
EDIT: double post. sorry
Manu's Injured. Everyone knows it.
But that's not his fatal flaw as player.
His problem is I don't think he thinks of himself as a scorer. He think of himself as a problem solver. That's the way Pop has used him for years: Problem solver. The team needs energy, give them energy. They need passing, pass the ball. They need shooting, shoot, etc. Manu comes into the game, sees what the problem is and tries to fix it.
But sometimes HE's the problem. Sometimes his shot doesn't feel good or he can't jump or whatever. So he fixes it by simply refusing to shoot. Sometimes he tries to be a playmaker, but other times he goes into a s and just floats, goes five, ten possessions without touching the ball or even looking at the basket. It's his way of solving the problem. He has to physically be ordered to shoot the ball when he's in a funk, but I don't think that's Pop's style.
Look at the box score. To hear people describe Manu's night, you'd think he missed more shots than Tim and Tony combined. Tim missed 16. Tony missed nine. Manu missed six.
He took eight shots all game.
Somebody like TPark or Ducks will rave at the numbers Tony or Tim or Kobe put up in a game and they'll never consider how many possessions it took for them to get those numbers. Manu has never been a volume shooter, he's always been an efficient scorer.
Kobe took 29 shots to get 28 points today. Tim took 26 shots to get 29. Manu took eight to get seven.
will freeze over before Manu ever takes 29 shots in a ballgame. But you better believe, no matter how poorly he shoots, he could muster a 1/1 ratio. It's not that hard.
You really want Manu to take 12 crappy shots when he clearly doesn't feel it just so he can sink six or seven? If he finished 7-19 with 20 points, would the rubes of the world rejoice?
He gives up the ball because sometimes he thinks other people can do better than he can. If they win, he's a footnote. If they lose, it looks like he played terrible. To some people, the game is that simple.
The Spurs missed 45 shots. Manu missed six. Please, let's have some common sense about this.
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