"it is likely that we will find habitable planets circling small stars"

[Supreme_Being]

Interesting, but I doubt it.

[DarkReign]

Well, come to think of it, there are reasons why aliens go out and look for other planets: resources, knowledge, curiousity, habitation...

To a civilization capable of traveling the stars, there must be certain hurdles they have have overcome that defy our understanding.

1. Resource - as in renewable or easily attainable material(s)
2. Energy - as in renewable and infinite (cold fusion, perpetual motion, etc)
3. Genome Mastery - cool as they may be, if one bas got sick on the flight, it could kill the entire armada. The mastery of their very DNA/genetic makeup would be paramount to even fathom traversing the stars as a way of life.

But then again, Manny brings a different perspective on the matter with machines (or more to the point, nanomachines) being the "all seeing eye".

Possible just as so many other things are, but I for one think unlikely. Im sure such a civilization is more than capable of such tech and scouting preference....but I think it would be unnecessary to say the least.

With the 3 items attained above (most likely a uva lot more than those) sending "robots" in your stead is a waste of resource and time. We as humans send out probes/satellites to the edge of our solar system and think we're some hot when we have to wait months (even years) for their signal to be sent back.

The beings we speculate upon would only use such "craft" as advanced scouting (if thats even required, seeing as their tech would border on the divine) in anticipation of direct observation.

I for one believe if such beings exist, then they are certainly benign (that is, they arent going to intentionally kill us for our oil/metal/lifeforce/wtf ever).

Think about our uselessness to them. We are no more significant to them then ants are to us (cosmologically speaking, maybe even less so...maybe like we view single-celled organisms, so off our radar they dont even exist outside a microscope viewed by the few who have interest). We kill ants because they invade our homes making for an unsightly addition to your abode. In what way does our existence offend them that eradication is preferable?

No one can know for sure. But if such a species exists, and if our existence was reprehensible to them then we'd already be space junk.

Because if they do exist then their tech is divine and they know of us, about us and study us. After all, in can be said with good general authority that they are nothing more than scientists...we are just unaware of what inspires them at this point. Cataloging comes to mind, but what the do I know.

[Don Quixote]

Some good points here ... If there's any possibility of us making actual, physical contact with any being "out there," it would have to be on the order of nano-technology. That would require, by the way, probes far more advanced than anything we're sending out now. Shoot, look how long it took for the Voyagers to finally leave the solar system!

It certainly wouldn't involve sending any actual humans -- our lifespans are far too short, and we wouldn't want to send any of our best, brightest, bravest, and best-trained into some far-away realm where they are certain to never come back. So on these counts you are right.

As for your idea that any visitors are benign, I admit it would be a possibility. A good possibility. But I would stop short of saying that with certainty. We just don't know if they'd be friendly. And would you be willing to take that chance, if some civilization from some far-flung place, with technology and know-how far exceeding our own, were to show up on our doorstep? I wouldn't. I'd do my best not to be blown to bits by them.

[thispego]

funny

[peewee's lovechild]

You can't make posts like this under any type of authority. Its pretty much impossible to be able say what the Human Race will be doing in 50 years much less EVER.

I have to agree with you here.

At the turn of the previous century, it was absolutely laughable to think that man could be on the moon. But, less than 70 years later, man did just that.

Who knows what man is capable of? It's entirely plausible that we could make our way to other planets.

[peewee's lovechild]

Okay fine. You believe that aliens landed at Roswell. That's cool.

According to you, and others like you, there was an alien in Earth.

His name was Jesus (Yeshua).

[peewee's lovechild]

Now thats an interesting take.

I for one, believe the universe is much too big to be devoid of life save Earth.

I believe in time (eons, if we're even around), life will be seen as abundant. Whether its a virus/bacteria on an asteroid or some other civilization traversing the stars.

Its the human condition to think we are the center of everything. Center of the solar system, center of the Galaxy, center of the universe, center of life, the center of God.

Self importance knows no bounds. Our greatest attribute and Achilles heel all in the same smug package.

Good post.

[peewee's lovechild]

That's fine and good, and I agree that humanity will inevitably try their luck in outer space. But I fear you're being a wee bit overly optimistic about our ability to overcome these astronomical (pun intended) obstacles in the realm of space and time. I'm more than open to the possibility that we'll discover some breakthrough, but it will have to be just that -- a real breakthrough in the fabric of space and time. Because in the 3-D world we live in, we're not getting much past Mars in our lifetime.

Wormholes.

[peewee's lovechild]

Maybe so.

But what if they come, and they happen across my cat -- who's friendly and goes up to people. If they don't find any humans, then they might conclude that we're a planet full of friendly animals (no people, nukes, ICBMs, etc.). And they they'll come -- and vaporize us.

Who says they'll be friendly?

ing re .

If they come across your cat, then they'll likely come across you or some other human.

Unless your cat is the only living thing in your neighboorhood and the aliens just won't bother with exploring the rest of your city, that is.

[thispego]

its funny watching dumbasses take stabs at intellectuality

[peewee's lovechild]

We just don't know if they'd be friendly. And would you be willing to take that chance, if some civilization from some far-flung place, with technology and know-how far exceeding our own, were to show up on our doorstep? I wouldn't. I'd do my best not to be blown to bits by them.

Paranoid s like you disturb me.

[peewee's lovechild]

To a civilization capable of traveling the stars, there must be certain hurdles they have have overcome that defy our understanding.

1. Resource - as in renewable or easily attainable material(s)
2. Energy - as in renewable and infinite (cold fusion, perpetual motion, etc)
3. Genome Mastery - cool as they may be, if one bas got sick on the flight, it could kill the entire armada. The mastery of their very DNA/genetic makeup would be paramount to even fathom traversing the stars as a way of life.

What about dark matter?

I don't know much more than what I've read, but I've understood that dark matter could be used as a constant source of energy if we could somehow find a way of harnessing it. Then again, there are scientists who doubt the existence of dark matter.

[phyzik]

I didnt see it brought up so.... Has anyone heard of the Drake equation?

Its a mathmatical formula that attempts to guess how much life there is in a given galaxy.

N = R* x Fp x Ne x Fe x Fi x Fc x L

N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and

R* is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy

Fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets

Ne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets

Fe is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point

Fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life

Fc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space

L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space

Anyway, on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation they show the current equation with the most recent data available.

R* = 7/year, fp = 0.5, ne = 2, fe = 0.33, fi = 0.01, fc = 0.01, and L = 10000 years

result in

N = 7 × 0.5 × 2 × 0.33 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10000 = 2.3

So, its possible that there might be 1 other Intelligent civilization out there besides our own, at least in our galaxy.

[Extra Stout]

According to you, and others like you, there was an alien in Earth.

His name was Jesus (Yeshua).

Begone, docetist.

[Don Quixote]

Hmmm ... that might be docetist. I was thinking that it was Gnostic. Definitely stupid, though.

[Extra Stout]

Anyway, on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation they show the current equation with the most recent data available.

R* = 7/year, fp = 0.5, ne = 2, fe = 0.33, fi = 0.01, fc = 0.01, and L = 10000 years

result in

N = 7 × 0.5 × 2 × 0.33 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10000 = 2.3

So, its possible that there might be 1 other Intelligent civilization out there besides our own, at least in our galaxy.

R* and fp can conceivably be estimated based upon observable data. The other five factors are wild-ass guesses. Sometimes a non-scientific agenda leads people to call their wild-ass guesses "data."

[Cry Havoc]

Some good points here ... If there's any possibility of us making actual, physical contact with any being "out there," it would have to be on the order of nano-technology. That would require, by the way, probes far more advanced than anything we're sending out now. Shoot, look how long it took for the Voyagers to finally leave the solar system!

Well, let's see.

In Roman times, what would an F-22 Raptor have been seen as? Even possible in the realm of the wildest dreams of science?

It took us millions of years to evolve to the point of flight. It then took us less than half a century to go from flight to space.

How the can you say what the next scientific breakthrough might reveal?

What happens if we find some incredibly concise method for understanding space-time relativity? What happens if we find a building block that the entire universe was constructed upon?

People who say something isn't possible just have not been paying enough attention to the history of science, especially in the past 200 years.

[peewee's lovechild]

Begone, docetist.

He was an alien.

[NASpurs]

He was an alien.

Was he on the spaceship that came with Xenu?

I keed.

[peewee's lovechild]

Was he on the spaceship that came with Xenu?

I keed.

[DarkReign]

its funny watching dumbasses take stabs at intellectuality

Its a good thing you never try.

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

He was an alien.

Just to throw it out there, but does anyone have any thoughts about the many different supposed "UFO sightings" in the bible?

[thispego]

Its a good thing you never try.

true... it is effortless for me

[DarkReign]

It certainly wouldn't involve sending any actual humans -- our lifespans are far too short, and we wouldn't want to send any of our best, brightest, bravest, and best-trained into some far-away realm where they are certain to never come back. So on these counts you are right.

It sounds as though youre speaking from a modern view, that is our current technology. If so, then I agree.

But, lets assume (<-- always a bad idea) that in the next 20-50 years we master the Human Genome.

Automatically, our lifespans increase (or at least the lives of our progeny). By how much? Ive read Scientific American articles on such things, but I am no gene therapist. If we could stop or slow down the brain's "internal clock" (that which regulates the release of certain enzymes which erode the cell-splitting process, until it ultimately comes to halt ie.death) then really, living forever is possible.

The mastering of the human genome out of the 3 criteria I stated is the most plausible in our lifetime, but no less significant (if not the most).

Granted, eternal life is a wonderful (maybe wonderful) byproduct of such a break thru. The real benefit is the elimination of all birth defects, genetic deficiencies and (theoretically) the ability to treat sick patients to full health (minus viruses, as I understand it).

Obviously, there are drawbacks. No one lives forever, no matter how scientifically possible it is. For every year we drive, the possibility of being in a fatal car accident rises. For every time we cross a road, our likelihood of being struck by a car rises. Its actually been said that if everyone on Earth were to "live forever" we would not have a population problem. Its just that accidental deaths would rise to the highest known levels, thereby balancing such numbers. Im off track....

Extending human lifespans to anything over 300 years (very young by immortal standards) automatically allows human voyage into space possible (possible in that the passengers will actually live to see their destination...not having the tech to reach said destination). As johngateswhitely linked up in previous posts, time dilation becomes an eminent factor. One portion of human exploration would have been "solved" while others will certainly arise in its place (namely the ability to get "there").

As for your idea that any visitors are benign, I admit it would be a possibility. A good possibility. But I would stop short of saying that with certainty. We just don't know if they'd be friendly.

Fair. Totally fair. Nothing is certain I willfully admit that. The possibility of "them" being hostile is definitely something consider.

And would you be willing to take that chance, if some civilization from some far-flung place, with technology and know-how far exceeding our own, were to show up on our doorstep? I wouldn't. I'd do my best not to be blown to bits by them.

In a word....YES!

Obviously, Im no shot-caller so my opinion is worthless if there were ever a Contact situation. But I fear aliens less than I do humans.

Here is my reasoning behind such a notion, to be clear:

1) If we could "reach" them, then they certainly could have "reached" us (if they havent already)

2) Same logic in my previous post. On the scale of significance, we probably rate somewhere between mosquito and fly dung to them. If Earth holds something they covet (resource,whatever) theyd have taken it already (see #1).

3) As much as movies glorify Alien Invaders and this notion of star-traveling species who hunt for sport or what have you, the possibility of such a thing is minute. I'd say less than the possibility that we humans are in fact alone in this universe (or continuum, whatever suits your fancy).

I base this on nothing but common sense (which I believe to be universal). Here is why:

a)Imagine what sort of cooperative effort from the entire human species it would take to create and fund a manned inter-solar system expedition. Now think about galactic exploration. Yeah.

b)The exploitation of the weak must always benefit the strong. Colonization of America, Spanish colonization of Latin America, the Philippines, Australia, etc etc. All in the name of new land and resource. Life feeds on life. You have what we want and we're taking it. See #1 above for reasons I think its unlikely aliens want our (if they even exist).

The one wild card that can never be accounted for is if we were viewed as "compe ion". I cant stretch my imagination far enough to come up with a viable reason for us to be seen as any sort of compe ion to a space-faring race of super-evolved scientists.

Unless of course the movies are correct and that our contact with them could be seen as a harbinger for destruction due to our human nature of war. But that is such a Hollywood idea of self ingratiating grandeur, I cant venture down that path of logic without puking out Will Smith and Orson Wells.

IF aliens exist and IF they are capable of intergalactic travel and IF we were to come into contact here on Earth or abroad, then it could be assumed they knew about us long before we knew about them and that any reason they would have had to destroy us would have been acted upon long before now.

Unless of course they feed on advanced lifeforces and are only watching our slow-steady progression through science and technology as a germination process when that we reach the zenith of human achievement, theyll swoop down from the heavens harvesting our very souls and stripping Mother Earth of her organs.

Thats entirely possible. Our ability to detect planets revolving around other stars is in its infancy. We are only able to detect massive planets that have very, very short solar years as they affect the stars "wobble" (light-wise) due to the conflicting gravitational fields.

Maybe theres entire solar systems full of stripped planets due to such a race.

Even with that possibility, if we humans were ever to discover another alien race (the equivalent of an insect discovering the earth is round and convincing other insects of it authenticity, if not more profound), then I would not fear such a thing.

They use to think you could sail off the "edge of the world". Brave was the soul who took a crew of men beyond the horizon and back again. Our humanity is our divinity, living or dying with it is all that counts in the end.

As a side note, the "aliens" would be the last thing I would fear in the case of actual discovery. I would fear humans even more than I do today as the powers that be would be hard-pressed to relinquish their hard-earned power in the face of such an event. Enlightenment to the universe could never be better expressed than with the meeting of another sentient species. Our skin colors would dissolve over night, along with our religions and our differences. The knowledge of something "out there" would unite us unlike any known force on a macro scale. A common goal? Or a common enemy? Who decides?

[DarkReign]

R* and fp can conceivably be estimated based upon observable data. The other five factors are wild-ass guesses. Sometimes a non-scientific agenda leads people to call their wild-ass guesses "data."

QFT. I have heard of the Drake Equation. Its just that when I heard about it, it was in reference to its wild mathematical assumptions about planets that are life-capable, divided by the probability of life actually happening on a life-capable planet, then divided by that life actually evolving into sentient lifeforms.

When the scientist/mathematician is born that can formulate such an equation as to prove beyond reasonable doubt that life is as predictable as gravity or even as loosely as electron collision, the Nobel Prize will be looked upon as second place compared to the new award given.