Official Trade Deadline Speculation Thread

[TD 21]

I might be back on the Camby bandwagon. With as porous as the defense is, the Spurs could use Camby's shotblocking. He'll give up open shots on the perimeter but at least they aren't layups. And maybe he'll play his azz off since it's a contract year.

Camby doesn't fit in the Spurs' current system but junking the current system and building a new one around Camby's ability to block shots sounds about as good as any other option right now.

I've been on the Camby bandwagon for two years and I've just gotten off. I saw him as in "we're one player away and it's a center-sized big, his contract is expiring, he's theoretically attainable for what the Spurs have to offer", but now I realize they're not one (realistic) player away and they just flat out need to avoid old players at all costs. Seriously. I used to think that was overblown, that the Spurs lacked talent surrounding the big three more than anything, but it's apparent, they're just flat out old. Like Harlem keeps saying, get some guys who can move and don't look like dead guys. Mentally, these guys know what to do and how to do it; physically, they just can't get there anymore. Not fast enough, anyway.

Thomas is a worthwhile gamble (for reasons that have been beaten to death, including by me) and the Spurs have Splitter's rights. I'd rather watch those two playing with Duncan, McDyess and Blair, on a deep, versatile front line next season, or watch the Spurs use Splitter as a means to acquire a long, athletic, quick, defensive minded SF, who can shoot the three.

[Blackjack]

When Skiles - who often seems like a perfect mix of the best qualities of Larry Brown and Don Nelson - started utilizing the worst qualities of Larry Brown and Don Nelson. The strange rotations. The stubbornness. The attention to obsession, rather than detail.

Sorry, but am I the only one who lol'd when reading that?

You can make a deal, for a very tradeable contract that matches up with most MLE-salary structures, in its last year no less, and take in 30 games of inspired play. This league is so stupidly ridiculous that, of course, things always seem to flesh in the most obvious of ways. And the obvious expectation is that Thomas will be on a full "I'll show them" kick, and play exceedingly well once acquired by a team outside of Cook County.

He may not get it for good, in true Jason Williams-style, but he can do a team, a bench, a frontcourt rotation, good. He could work for the Spurs. He could work for a quite a few teams. Freed from the "figure it out on your own, kid"-clutches of the Chicago Bulls, for the rest of this year at least, it's an almost certainty.

I really don't how you could be against this trade, given the type of package it'd require. He brings a physical skillset that would be of great use and a great compliment to a guy like Tim and the guy's got his proverbial back against the wall; he's got a tarnished image and no guaranteed contract awaits.

The Spurs have nothing to lose and a lot to gain; Mickael Pietrus says o.

[ElNono]

I don't think so.. Pop & co. are looking to make a move. The Spurs always work under the radar during trade time and thats why there isn't much rumor-traction. But I am pretty sure that Pop and RCB are doing something to upgrade this set.

As I already said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Spurs don't make a move. If there's anything, it probably be close to the deadline when some teams get desperate to shred some salary and take on our expirings.

[jermaine]

Yal keep calling dude dumb, but if I'm not mistaken he played a major role in the Bull vs Celts going to 7gms an that many overtimes! No he's not Duncan but he sure as will make a impact. Get him an the white boy(no disrespect)

[doobs]

More than anything else, Spurs need some Mario Elie at ude.

[TFloss32]

maybe tt is all hype but id like to c what pop could get out of him if anything

I don't think Pop can get much of anything out of anyone right now. I've never heard him have such a defeatist at ude as I have in the recent AW article. His inconsistent lineups, refusal to beef up our interior defense by playing Ian (extremely disappointed in the way his situation has been handled) and Theo and his insistence on playing guys that aren't making a difference as of right now (i.e. Bonner, Finley) have this team going in so many different directions. Also, when was the last time you saw Pop just lay into one of our players? IMO, he doesn't have that edge anymore and our team is reflection of that.

“We haven’t developed a trust, a communication, a camaraderie as far as executing on the court,” Popovich said. “Which is strange for us. We’ve never had this situation.

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”

[TFloss32]

More than anything else, Spurs need some Mario Elie at ude.

Couldn't agree more. Teams simply aren't afraid of the Spurs anymore.

[coachmac87]

I don't think Pop can get much of anything out of anyone right now. I've never heard him have such a defeatist at ude as I have in the recent AW article. His inconsistent lineups, refusal to beef up our interior defense by playing Ian (extremely disappointed in the way his situation has been handled) and Theo and his insistence on playing guys that aren't making a difference as of right now (i.e. Bonner, Finley) have this team going in so many different directions. Also, when was the last time you saw Pop just lay into one of our players? IMO, he doesn't have that edge anymore and our team is reflection of that.

“We haven’t developed a trust, a communication, a camaraderie as far as executing on the court,” Popovich said. “Which is strange for us. We’ve never had this situation.

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”

Well damn....at least he is admitting to that.

[HarlemHeat37]

Why would teams be afraid of the Spurs when we don't have any athleticism or size?..a vocal guy wouldn't change that..

[doobs]

Why would teams be afraid of the Spurs when we don't have any athleticism or size?..a vocal guy wouldn't change that..

Spurs lack intensity and toughness more than they lack athleticism or size. That's the point.

They need at ude. At ude goes a long way. RJ would be awesome if he just started playing with intensity, like he had a chip on his shoulder or something.

[HarlemHeat37]

At ude would help and so would balls, but it wouldn't make up for the lack of athleticism and size..

[Mark in Austin]

Camby doesn't fit in the Spurs' current system but junking the current system and building a new one around Camby's ability to block shots sounds about as good as any other option right now.

I'm not convinced the classic Spurs defensive scheme can be lock-down effective without Bowen.

So what the - bring on Cotton Camby. In win now mode, Camby>>Thomas.

[TFloss32]

Why would teams be afraid of the Spurs when we don't have any athleticism or size?..a vocal guy wouldn't change that..

I don't think Doobs was saying that a vocal leader would put us over the top. It would just simply make die-hard Spurs fans (like most of us on here) feel as if the players at least care about what's currently going on. Nothing makes me more upset (as a fan) when the Spurs lose a game because of a lack of effort or when they're losing and act as if they don't care. I can recall several times where the Spurs have been losing and the bench will look like they're favorite puppy just died or they'll be laughing and messing around.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't this the biggest team the Spurs have had since '99? They have three legit seven footers and two guys at 6'10", yet they don't bring their size to the table. Pop is too busy catering to other teams' style of play and insistent on playing these 4 guard/1 big lineups. The amount of points they're giving up in the paint this season is a tell-tale sign that Pop is not sticking with what has made them successful in the past. Also, this is the most athletic team the Spurs have had in years and that's why many of us were giddy at the potential ceiling of this team before the season started. Teams aren't scared of the Spurs anymore because they know that they don't have their together and lack that inner confidence that they've possessed for the past several years. This is very evident when teams come to the AT&T Center and roll right through them.

[underdawg]

Well damn....at least he is admitting to that.

He's admitting to the wrong thing - he needs to admit that although he might be a good coach, the league is at a point where talent and ability trumps a savy vets and offensive and defensive schemes. He doesn't have the talent to compete regrardless of how this team's chemistry develops or not. He needs players that are able to protect the rim, rebound and score. He gets some decent performances out of this group offensively from time to time, but if a good team adjusts, this team falls flat because they no longer have the ability to compete with the better teams. Don't get me wrong - it's not because of a lack of desire to compete as much as it is the well being dry.

Parker, Manu and Duncan are obviously still compe ive, but it's no longer good enough to have good shooters in Finley, Bonner and Mason eating up minutes. This team needs more from its role players - it needs the ability to defend, pound the ball inside (instead of jump shots) and be agressive (knock people over going for the ball from time to time.)

Can 1 or 2 players do this? - maybe; Horry, Ellie and Jackson did alright when needed.

[Spursfanfromafar]

For all those who think that athleticism and talent is all that requires for the Spurs to get over the top - RJ is the personification of athleticism and talent and look where he has gotten the team and himself.

There is something about the system and veteran savvy that made the Spurs as good as they were in the past. Getting a guy like Tyrus Thomas, simply because he can scream, make some Sportscenter defensive plays and the lot is not going to help the Spurs much.

Camby is not the best answer; but he addresses a crying need and support that Tim Duncan needs in the post, freeing his wear-and-tear affected body to do more on offense. Also getting some size to shore up a frontcourt that seems lackadaisical with an undersized talent (Blair) and a good veteran who can't block shots (McDyess).

[objective]

I might be back on the Camby bandwagon. With as porous as the defense is, the Spurs could use Camby's shotblocking. He'll give up open shots on the perimeter but at least they aren't layups. And maybe he'll play his azz off since it's a contract year.

Camby doesn't fit in the Spurs' current system but junking the current system and building a new one around Camby's ability to block shots sounds about as good as any other option right now.

I'm off the Cambywagon.

LAC isn't giving up an expiring for expirings. That means you're either talking Splitter or if the Spurs are lucky, a 1st, possibly unprotected though.

Just for a 1/3rd year rental of a soft defender in his twilight and rapidly approaching completely washed up territory?

Even as a Splitter-coming-skeptic, I wouldn't want that.

At least trading for Tyrus Thomas would give the Spurs another year to look at him with the qualifying offer, and he could still get better.

Camby will just get stiffer.

It wouldn't work, it would just be losing an asset, even one as meager as a 1st, which would be . . . I don't know, 18 or 19 if things stay the same?

Good players can be found there.

[SenorSpur]

I'm off too. Camby would've been okay 2-3 years ago. Considering him as a possible trade acquisition is Kurt Thomas all over again. As Barkley reminds us, older players don't get better, they just get older. I'm over the AARP strategy. Too much age on this team as it is.

[Blackjack]

I'm off the Cambywagon.

LAC isn't giving up an expiring for expirings. That means you're either talking Splitter or if the Spurs are lucky, a 1st, possibly unprotected though.

Just for a 1/3rd year rental of a soft defender in his twilight and rapidly approaching completely washed up territory?

Even as a Splitter-coming-skeptic, I wouldn't want that.

At least trading for Tyrus Thomas would give the Spurs another year to look at him with the qualifying offer, and he could still get better.

Camby will just get stiffer.

It wouldn't work, it would just be losing an asset, even one as meager as a 1st, which would be . . . I don't know, 18 or 19 if things stay the same?

Good players can be found there.

[TJastal]

For all those who think that athleticism and talent is all that requires for the Spurs to get over the top - RJ is the personification of athleticism and talent and look where he has gotten the team and himself.

There is something about the system and veteran savvy that made the Spurs as good as they were in the past. Getting a guy like Tyrus Thomas, simply because he can scream, make some Sportscenter defensive plays and the lot is not going to help the Spurs much.

Camby is not the best answer; but he addresses a crying need and support that Tim Duncan needs in the post, freeing his wear-and-tear affected body to do more on offense. Also getting some size to shore up a frontcourt that seems lackadaisical with an undersized talent (Blair) and a good veteran who can't block shots (McDyess).

Nobody is saying you need to field a roster of 12-15 intellectually challenged athletic freaks to win ballgames.

But this team is getting killed by not having anyone outside of Jefferson with a degree of athleticism that Pop actually will play. It's probably no coincidence Pop has been using RJ as a power forward for most of the year, Pop is probalby trying to inject some athleticism into the frontline (even though Jefferson plays too soft to be effective in the role).

Get Tyrus Thomas to take over this role and move RJ back to small forward where he belongs and this team will start kicking some ass.

[SouthTexasRancher]

If you're going to do that, might aswell give Ratliff a shot and see what happens. That said, I have a feeling the current system is here to stay as long as Pop is at the helm.

Any clues as to why hardheaded Pop hardly ever plays Ratliff? Especially since I thought we got him to give us a quality 8-10 minutes per game and he could really help us in the paint late in these games we keep giving away. He can't do any worse than the others in the game at that point.

[pad300]

I think that if the Spurs braintrust wants it, there are strong possibilities at major shakeups. I am just not sure that they are interested.

1) IND
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yzsgxz8
2) PHI
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yhyfq2r

Both of these are financially driven, with PHI & IND moving longer term contracts for shorter ones. Both would likely require more incentive (SAS's 2010 1st, or rights to Splitter, or other incentive).

WAS would be another possibility, but I expect them to conclude ending up trading with CLE and moving Jamison. If not, there are possibilities on that roster including Mike Miller (expiring, could be had as a rental for other expirings and a 1st) and Brendan Haywood (expiring, similar).

A smaller shake up would be possible with CHI, as many here have speculated, either
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=ygy75qy
or
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yhbak5p

The key point to all of this is that there are 3 teams looking at major talent give aways (WAS, IND, PHI), and 3 buyers (CLE,SAS, and PHO). (Note, HOU is not interested in anything that is on offer from WAS,IND,PHI, otherwise they would be in this conversation as well). Therefore, we should, if interested be able to work out a deal with one of those teams. My preference would be the PHI deal, I think it is the strongest. One thing that could de-rail this is that DAL may also be interested, after their recent problems, and they also have assets to put together a decent package...

[TFloss32]

He's admitting to the wrong thing - he needs to admit that although he might be a good coach, the league is at a point where talent and ability trumps a savy vets and offensive and defensive schemes. He doesn't have the talent to compete regrardless of how this team's chemistry develops or not. He needs players that are able to protect the rim, rebound and score. He gets some decent performances out of this group offensively from time to time, but if a good team adjusts, this team falls flat because they no longer have the ability to compete with the better teams. Don't get me wrong - it's not because of a lack of desire to compete as much as it is the well being dry.

Parker, Manu and Duncan are obviously still compe ive, but it's no longer good enough to have good shooters in Finley, Bonner and Mason eating up minutes. This team needs more from its role players - it needs the ability to defend, pound the ball inside (instead of jump shots) and be agressive (knock people over going for the ball from time to time.)

I think you're correct that the league is becoming far more athletic but these types of teams still aren't winning championships. Teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Celtics and Lakers have won championships in the past decade because of their defensive and offensive execution, not because of their athleticism. Until teams like the Hawks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. start hoisiting the trophy at the end of the season, I don't buy that argument.

I don't think the well is dry. This is arguably the most talented team the Spurs have ever had (on paper) and they have a great combination of younger and older players. IMO, inconsisteny with personnel decisions and lack of an iden y is the reason for what's currently going on. I also question their passion. See Pop's quote after the Laker game:

"It's about mental toughness and physical toughness and passion, a group jelling together and pulling for each other, and we're not doing it."

I completely agree with you that the role players need to step it up. In defense of those guys, not knowing where your place is at in the rotation doesn't help with mental preparation and developing a rhythm as a cohesive unit.

[objective]

I don't even think RJ is that athletic. Not anymore.

Compared to Finley, sure.

But forum favorite Mickael Pietrus (i was on his bandwagon as well) is an athlete. He'd mop RJ up in a combine. I don't think RJ could take him in any diagnostic, whether it's 3/4 court time or no-step vert or bench . . . that guy makes athletic plays. I wish RJ had that athleticism, because that could slightly cover for his apathy.

[ace3g]

[TJastal]

Those pics look nice. Thomas and Salmons would effectively end RJ's brief career at the 4 and Finley's career at the 1-5.

Thomas plays so much bigger than his listed height, he would be the perfect answer as Duncan's frontcourt mate.