Future Spur: Dylan Harper

[Seventyniner]

That might be true, but I still think they need to carefully weigh the chicken way he forced his way out in the decision. Especially because he accused the team doctors of lying about his diagnosis when the Toronto doctors told him the same thing. Every other player with his jersey retired didn’t display any disrespect to the team like that. If anything, poll the fans.

You don't need to poll the fans. Just listen to the boos that rain down on him every time he is in SA. Retiring his number would be a travesty.

[exstatic]

You don't need to poll the fans. Just listen to the boos that rain down on him every time he is in SA. Retiring his number would be a travesty.

He legit stole $19M (his salary for the 73 games he missed by faking injury) from this franchise. that guy. He played 9 games, and it turned out that was when his shoe was dropping.

[LeBowen]

You don't need to poll the fans. Just listen to the boos that rain down on him every time he is in SA. Retiring his number would be a travesty.

[spursistan]

The more teams attempt to bowl us over with juicy offers for #2 the more Brian Wright will cling on to it .. I 've said above: the final scouting reports have been turned over and scouts and front office people are increasingly of the view that Harper is much closer to Flagg as a prospect than to the 3-8 lottery field, and so they think Spurs could bite on a massive package citing the much discussed 'fit over BPA' rational for such transaction..

[Uriel]

The more teams attempt to bowl us over with juicy offers for #2 the more Brian Wright will cling on to it .. I 've said above: the final scouting reports have been turned over and scouts and front office people are increasingly of the view that Harper is much closer to Flagg as a prospect than to the 3-8 lottery field, and so they think Spurs could bite on a massive package citing the much discussed 'fit over BPA' rational for such transaction..

Coulibaly would be a surprising name. I doubt it’s Sarr or Wright would’ve pulled the trigger, considering how he was reportedly #1 on the Spurs’ Big Board last year and the team’s current lack of frontcourt depth.

[LeBowen]

Coulibaly would be a surprising name. I doubt it’s Sarr or Wright would’ve pulled the trigger, considering how he was reportedly #1 on the Spurs Big Board last year.

Why would it matter if Sarr was #1 on their board last year when this draft is way stronger?
Harper would've been a consensus #1 last year.

If anything, this season has shown us Sarr has a very long way to go.
He'd be a huge negative on offense when playing with Wemby and he's also a poor rebounder for his size.

Wizards have nothing we'd want over Harper.

[Uriel]

Why would it matter if Sarr was #1 on their board last year when this draft is way stronger?
Harper would've been a consensus #1 last year.

If anything, this season has shown us Sarr has a very long way to go.
He'd be a huge negative on offense when playing with Wemby and he's also a poor rebounder for his size.

Wizards have nothing we'd want over Harper.

To be clear, I’m Team Harper all the way. But think of it from Wright’s perspective.

Say Wizards offer Sarr and #6 (Ace Bailey?). You get to fill your two biggest holes in one go, and in exchange, you give up a player whom you would’ve struggled to fit in an already crowded backcourt.

Again, I’d still stick with Harper, just because of his sheer talent and potential, but the roster fit from this deal makes a ton of sense.

[LeBowen]

Say Wizards offer Sarr and #6 (Ace Bailey?). You get to fill your two biggest holes in one go

And what makes you believe that either of them will be good?
We'll be trying to seriously compete this season, Sarr will be a negative on offense for a couple more years at least and Bailey has so many red flags I've lost count. Even if we exclude off-court issues.

you give up a player whom you would’ve struggled to fit in an already crowded backcourt.

There are 96 minutes available for guard positions and if we don't get Harper, we'll need another point guard.
Just because all 3 won't start it doesn't mean they won't play starter minutes. Spurs fans should know this better than any other fanbase.

[MannyIsGod]

Since I've been a Spurs fan, there have only been 2 players drafted who had more promise than Harper has right now. Duncan and Wemby. People are over thinking this and I really hope Wright isn't one of those people although there is no indication he is. You don't use the 2nd pick for need when you have a guy of Harper's talent and upside on the board.

[cutewizard]

How lucky we are to have Harper........our backcourt is secure for the foreseeable future........

[benefactor]

To be clear, I’m Team Harper all the way. But think of it from Wright’s perspective.

Say Wizards offer Sarr and #6 (Ace Bailey?). You get to fill your two biggest holes in one go, and in exchange, you give up a player whom you would’ve struggled to fit in an already crowded backcourt.




Again, I’d still stick with Harper, just because of his sheer talent and potential, but the roster fit from this deal makes a ton of sense.

No

[Mr. Body]

And what makes you believe that either of them will be good?
We'll be trying to seriously compete this season, Sarr will be a negative on offense for a couple more years at least and Bailey has so many red flags I've lost count. Even if we exclude off-court issues.



There are 96 minutes available for guard positions and if we don't get Harper, we'll need another point guard.
Just because all 3 won't start it doesn't mean they won't play starter minutes. Spurs fans should know this better than any other fanbase.

The problem with Fox-Castle-Harper isn't really minutes. They can fairly overlap in terms of minutes (although finishing games is a point). It's how they are being used. Harper projects as an on-the-ball dominant offensive engine and needs lots of reps to develop that way. Fox is also a ball-dominant player. Castle was used as one late this season but can play more on ball, though he deserves touches there, too.

So, you have three guys who need the ball in their hands. Fox to be most effective, Harper to develop. Phoenix, for example, already had problems with 'your turn, my turn' set-ups with KD, Booker, and Beal, and they played somewhat different positions. These are always pretty problematic. I think there will be efforts to get, say, Castle screening for Harper - he did for CP3 - but the fact is all three kind of want to do the same things on the court in similar ways. It's going to be an issue.

[LeBowen]

The problem with Fox-Castle-Harper isn't really minutes. They can fairly overlap in terms of minutes (although finishing games is a point). It's how they are being used. Harper projects as an on-the-ball dominant offensive engine and needs lots of reps to develop that way. Fox is also a ball-dominant player. Castle was used as one late this season but can play more on ball, though he deserves touches there, too.

So, you have three guys who need the ball in their hands. Fox to be most effective, Harper to develop. Phoenix, for example, already had problems with 'your turn, my turn' set-ups with KD, Booker, and Beal, and they played somewhat different positions. These are always pretty problematic. I think there will be efforts to get, say, Castle screening for Harper - he did for CP3 - but the fact is all three kind of want to do the same things on the court in similar ways. It's going to be an issue.

Did you already forget how many times the likes of Keldon and even Jeremy were bringing the ball up this season?
We get those touches for Harper by taking them away from our wings who shouldn't be handling the ball, anyway.
I love Castle, but I don't think what he did at the end of the season to get ROTY should be his natural role for a few more years.

And I don't think it should be compared to Suns situation because neither of those three is a playmaker, they're scorers who shouldn't be taken out of their comfort zone.
My biggest issue with potentialy KD trade (or even Devin staying) is that they shouldn't have any playmaking duties.
I want KD only if it's going to be the executioner, FIBA KD. I don't want none of Suns KD.

[RC_Drunkford]

The more teams attempt to bowl us over with juicy offers for #2 the more Brian Wright will cling on to it .. I 've said above: the final scouting reports have been turned over and scouts and front office people are increasingly of the view that Harper is much closer to Flagg as a prospect than to the 3-8 lottery field, and so they think Spurs could bite on a massive package citing the much discussed 'fit over BPA' rational for such transaction..

not that somebody was predicting this...

[LeBowen]

not that somebody was predicting this...

You were also predicting Spurs won't get Harper.

[RC_Drunkford]

You were also predicting Spurs won't get Harper.

nah I said they will get plenty of offers and might trade down if they get a haul. They are clearly getting good offers from the teams I mentioned.

[picnroll]

Miss the years of arguing who’s better TP or Manu. Looking forward to the years of arguing who’s better Fox, Castle or Harper.

[SpursBills]

The problem with Fox-Castle-Harper isn't really minutes. They can fairly overlap in terms of minutes (although finishing games is a point). It's how they are being used. Harper projects as an on-the-ball dominant offensive engine and needs lots of reps to develop that way. Fox is also a ball-dominant player. Castle was used as one late this season but can play more on ball, though he deserves touches there, too.

So, you have three guys who need the ball in their hands. Fox to be most effective, Harper to develop. Phoenix, for example, already had problems with 'your turn, my turn' set-ups with KD, Booker, and Beal, and they played somewhat different positions. These are always pretty problematic. I think there will be efforts to get, say, Castle screening for Harper - he did for CP3 - but the fact is all three kind of want to do the same things on the court in similar ways. It's going to be an issue.

I sort of disagree with you about KD - I think that rather than impede their progress, KD actually buys time for 3 guys - Harper, Castle, and Sochan.

I base this assertion on two things -
1. The offensive functionality of a lineup is based on the amount of ulative gravity of its players, rather than having all 5 players have some sort of gravity
2. While the question of whether a guy shoots is important, just as important is the question of WHEN he'll shoot. A ton of guys start off as non or poor shooters, only to become passable with time. For example, James Harden started off as a slightly above league average shooter (by volume+percentage) and slightly improved every season until maxing out in his age 29 season.

Right now we've got a non-shooter in Sochan, a poor shooter in Castle, and I know people are optimistic about Harper's shot, but he's got a ton of bad misses over his college sample, I think he's going to struggle a little bit with his jumper his first couple years. So in a regular lineup, you can't play Castle with Sochan, and certainly not the two of them with Fox because spacing, and then if you add Harper he probably can't play with Sochan, and it's questionable if he can play with Castle because spacing, and eventually you just run into a bunch of non-functional lineups that impede development. If you add KD into the lineup, all of a sudden, your lineup's ulative gravity goes way up, and you can start playing some of those awkward lineups that didn't seem playable before. Castle and Harper develop their drive game with open lanes caused by KD's gravity. Sochan actually gets a diet of open 3s caused by KD's gravity. Even if you believe in their work ethic and ability to develop their jumpers, it takes several years before their off the dribble game develops. KD can suck up a ton of usage, but that doesn't mean that he has to suck up a ton of time of possession.

Develop Harper like Harden, let him learn to be a good defender and off-ball player first because it'll make him a better basketball player. KD's old as , so there'll be stretches where he misses time as well where you can let him chuck shots occasionally, but I don't want that being the staple of his "development". Harden started being full time on-ball at age 23, and by that time Harper's that age KD will be either retired or a bit player and Fox may well be traded. In the meantime the team gets to stay compe ive - you're basically buying time for your young guys to develop their shots with a high gravity guy.

[picnroll]

I’m not a fan in the least of acquiring KD. I’m perfectly fine with the Spurs progressing up the ladder in the next couple of years. I’d rather they develop their iden y, their style of play with the core that exist now, Wemby, Fox, Castle, hopefully Harper, and I’m still hopeful of Sochan, than develop a style heavily influenced by KD who’ll be gone in 2 to 3 years.

[SpursFan86]

nah I said they will get plenty of offers and might trade down if they get a haul. They are clearly getting good offers from the teams I mentioned.

Ehhh that’s a bit of a back pedal You were acting like it was more likely than not that they trade it away, and were making it seem like they were seriously considering moving Harper in a win-now move. Everything that has come out since then has pointed to them being all-in on Harper and having no interest in trading the pick.

[baseline bum]

The more teams attempt to bowl us over with juicy offers for #2 the more Brian Wright will cling on to it .. I 've said above: the final scouting reports have been turned over and scouts and front office people are increasingly of the view that Harper is much closer to Flagg as a prospect than to the 3-8 lottery field, and so they think Spurs could bite on a massive package citing the much discussed 'fit over BPA' rational for such transaction..

Unless they're able to bring back a prime Wes Unseld from the dead nothing they could surprise me with to entice a Harper trade.

[benefactor]

I sort of disagree with you about KD - I think that rather than impede their progress, KD actually buys time for 3 guys - Harper, Castle, and Sochan.

I base this assertion on two things -
1. The offensive functionality of a lineup is based on the amount of ulative gravity of its players, rather than having all 5 players have some sort of gravity
2. While the question of whether a guy shoots is important, just as important is the question of WHEN he'll shoot. A ton of guys start off as non or poor shooters, only to become passable with time. For example, James Harden started off as a slightly above league average shooter (by volume+percentage) and slightly improved every season until maxing out in his age 29 season.

Right now we've got a non-shooter in Sochan, a poor shooter in Castle, and I know people are optimistic about Harper's shot, but he's got a ton of bad misses over his college sample, I think he's going to struggle a little bit with his jumper his first couple years. So in a regular lineup, you can't play Castle with Sochan, and certainly not the two of them with Fox because spacing, and then if you add Harper he probably can't play with Sochan, and it's questionable if he can play with Castle because spacing, and eventually you just run into a bunch of non-functional lineups that impede development. If you add KD into the lineup, all of a sudden, your lineup's ulative gravity goes way up, and you can start playing some of those awkward lineups that didn't seem playable before. Castle and Harper develop their drive game with open lanes caused by KD's gravity. Sochan actually gets a diet of open 3s caused by KD's gravity. Even if you believe in their work ethic and ability to develop their jumpers, it takes several years before their off the dribble game develops. KD can suck up a ton of usage, but that doesn't mean that he has to suck up a ton of time of possession.

Develop Harper like Harden, let him learn to be a good defender and off-ball player first because it'll make him a better basketball player. KD's old as , so there'll be stretches where he misses time as well where you can let him chuck shots occasionally, but I don't want that being the staple of his "development". Harden started being full time on-ball at age 23, and by that time Harper's that age KD will be either retired or a bit player and Fox may well be traded. In the meantime the team gets to stay compe ive - you're basically buying time for your young guys to develop their shots with a high gravity guy.

This is the same drum I've been beating with Durant. People keep saying that we can't win a championship with Durant and our lineup. We were never going to win a championship with Durant and our lineup. Acquiring Durant is about gap bridging development when it comes to the players we currently have and going from the team we currently have to the championship team we are building.

[Russ]

To be clear, I’m Team Harper all the way. But think of it from Wright’s perspective.

Say Wizards offer Sarr and #6 (Ace Bailey?). You get to fill your two biggest holes in one go, and in exchange, you give up a player whom you would’ve struggled to fit in an already crowded backcourt.

Again, I’d still stick with Harper, just because of his sheer talent and potential, but the roster fit from this deal makes a ton of sense.

Go with your first instinct.

Team who gets the best player (i.e., Harper) always wins the trade.

[CGD]

The more teams attempt to bowl us over with juicy offers for #2 the more Brian Wright will cling on to it .. I 've said above: the final scouting reports have been turned over and scouts and front office people are increasingly of the view that Harper is much closer to Flagg as a prospect than to the 3-8 lottery field, and so they think Spurs could bite on a massive package citing the much discussed 'fit over BPA' rational for such transaction..

It would be PEAK wizards if they included their unprotected 2026 FRP to clinch the deal, only for them to finally hit on the 1st overall selection.

[RC_Drunkford]

Ehhh that’s a bit of a back pedal You were acting like it was more likely than not that they trade it away, and were making it seem like they were seriously considering moving Harper in a win-now move. Everything that has come out since then has pointed to them being all-in on Harper and having no interest in trading the pick.

gotta adjust as new information comes out. I also always said I hope they draft Harper, because I don't trust Brian Wright to nail the pick if they trade down. The draft is only a few days away, so we'll find out. I'm sure they will get even crazier offers until draft night.

That being said I still think they are in win-now mode if they trade for KD and will replace the majority of the roster.