so all the murray picks
CHA (which to be fair, is less valuable today than it was in 2022 when we traded murray)
ATLx2
relinquish swap
and Tre Jones
and Cissoko (dont really care tbh)
in addition to
swapping our 2024 pick with the kings 2024 pick (big downgrade)
for Trae Young and Jevon Carter
its more than id give. from the draft capital, tbh its somewhat what i'd expect, though i wouldnt trade our 2024 pick in addition to a full undo of murray trade. we could talk about bulls pick... but that seems rich
and then an expiring Tre Jones has some good value too. its too rich for me, but not thaaat far off
I'm not bidding against myself by offering the 24 pick to Atlanta. They can get their own picks back, the Chicago pick, rip up the swap, and matching salary and that's as far as I'm going. They won't find a deal anywhere close to that for Trae elsewhere and if they somehow do trade him to the Lakers for spite that's good too, since it makes their 25 and 26 picks bad enough to be in the running for Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, AJ Dybantsa, or Cam Boozer.
^ exactly, I’d feel zero pressure to engage ATL at all. Let THEM negotiate against themselves. Honestly right now: ATL picks > Young
Happy to talk about all others outside SAS’s own 2025, 2026 picks, but on Spurs terms.
I mean... I'm probably doing that deal, tbh.
I'd do the Craptors 1st instead of the natural one, both because I don't trust those shady pricks to not go to extreme lengths to attempt to screw the Spurs and realistically the Hawks need something more than the Murray trade in reverse.
Good luck to the Hawks doing better than this and don't sleep on Jones as an asset as a solid third guard who'd fit well with their in bent guards and double as more cap relief considering he's an expiring.
The Spurs should be incentivized to include him in this hypothetical anyway since he can't credibly play with Young and has outgrown strictly backing up a star, so it wouldn't make sense for him or them to invest in each other beyond next season anyway.
I don't mind the Bulls tie in either, since Carter would be a nice fit as a backup to Young and alongside Branham as a 3 and D type. He's also not good enough to gripe if Wesley makes a leap and usurps him in the rotation.
I don't care how bad the top of this draft projects, the Spurs didn't just sit through another miserable season, aided by some dubious early season rotational decisions, only to likely end up with a single mid round 1st for their troubles.
As I explained above, they don't need to bid against themselves either.
I do this deal in a heart beat, but why the would Atlanta? They're giving up their Franchise player AND their best +defender for Tre Jones and picks/potential flexibility? what? kind of misses the point, this would be a rebuild move, but thats not what the Hawks are doing. They didn't bring Quinn in to tank and their owner's not bottoming out. Just look at that Clips/Hawks game the other day. Hawks went into LA and beat the out of the Clips with both Kawaii/George scoring 26+. Sure they got their asses handed to them in subsequent games, but that game is the blue print for a sans Tre ATL team going forward. With the right roster tweaks, they could end up being good. So they actually might be open to trading Trae, but it'll be for a borderline Allstar in return + picks. If I'm Atl I'm asking for Devin plus all their picks back. The Spurs'll say off, but thats the beginning of the negotiations. Any scenario where it ends up looking like this proposed trade (3 1/2 firsts, a swap, plus Tre Jones) thats an easy yes for me. Especially if Toronto conveys and we'll be adding a top 7 player anyways.
I have no idea what Atlanta will wnd up doing, but I'm confident that they won't find any deal on the market comparable to this one. Nobody will offer that much for TY..
It wouldn't necessarily be a re-build type trade for the Hawks.
Analytically, Jones grades out as a fringe starter and as I alluded to, he'd fit well with this version of Murray and Bogdanovic, too.
That might be enough to keep them in play-in range (only with less upside) and if that's not enough, they can always take some of the draft capital and re-route it for more immediate help if they prefer.
Why? No reason to throw the first in. I could see moving Tre if the Toronto pick conveys and they take someone like Sheppard but if not he's an awesome backup point who won't break the bank to re-sign. No team other than the Spurs can give Atlanta their 2025, 26, & 27 drafts back with 25 and 26 considered very strong classes. Without Trae that's a tank level team so why would they move they move him anywhere else?
Meh they're a borderline lottery team that's capped out and doesn't have assets to improve with a star who is probably going to ask out within a couple of years and the 25 and 26 drafts both look strong. Certainly at least 25 given how strong a prospect Cooper Flagg looks to be. Jalen Johnson's not going to ever become good enough to lead them to contention and Trae is likely as good as he'll ever be. I think it's lunacy to not blow it up.
They really like Bufkin and are looking for more minutes for him next season. Absolutely no need for Tre Jones. (plus selfishly I'd like to keep Tre as OUR backup pg. It'd suit him better as backup, plus have some continuity for the team, as we overhaul 80% of this roster over the next 3 years.)
he’s racist tbhZubac I guess
All those ex Yougo looks the same to him
I know they do, but he's a combo guard (albeit with a suspect shot) and would still get minutes as the fourth guard.
TD 21
”I don't care how bad the top of this draft projects, the Spurs didn't just sit through another miserable season, aided by some dubious early season rotational decisions, only to likely end up with a single mid round 1st for their troubles.”
But that’s not what they end up with… they end up with Trae for their troubles since the only way they get Trae is for that pick (theoretical).
I mean directly out of the draft though.
Out of the obvious prospective suitors, none have assets as valuable to offer as the Hawks own picks back, so why should the Spurs add to that with a probably top 3-4 pick too? What's wrong with adding the Craptors 1st + Jones?
In the unlikely event someone tops that, the Spurs could reassess at that point.
By the time this trade would be completed, we’d know if the Raptors pick is conveying or not - if it is, that opens up this trade and alleviates your concerns of only having a mid/late FRP from SAC. Say we land the #5 pick and we get the TOR #7 pick. I don’t care enough about the difference between those picks to haggle over the SA pick versus the TOR pick.
Forget the concept against bidding against themselves for now. No one has bid anything, and we aren’t at the negotiating table, so we need not concern ourselves with negotiating against ourselves since this is all meaningless chatter. Just evaluate that deal in itself, not in relation to what you think the Spurs should try to do. Only ask yourself, if that is ATL’s final offer - do you do it?
I would do it, because I think that overall package is fair value. I also (my own personal opinion) think Trae will cost more than what people would like to hope. ATL is not currently in a situation where they must trade Trae, so their next best alternative is not what other teams could possible offer - its simply keeping him and adding two FRPs to their team and whatever other deals they can make to try and make their team better.
Now, if Trae asks for a trade, either in public or behind the scenes, then the calculus all changes and the Spurs gain maximum leverage. Until then, the Hawks likely do not view themselves as in debt of high picks… they probably view their immediate future as a slight improvement (because all teams think they will get better) over the play-in team they are now, and they likely aren’t overly concerned with the late-teens picks they owe the Spurs in 2025 and 2027 and the possibility they might downgrade their pick in 2026 (which they again, probably view as maybe dropping from the late teens to the early 20s at worst).
Are the Hawks being realistic in viewing it this way? Maybe… maybe not. But they aren’t exactly a basement dweller who feels they need to blow it up. They are a solid play-in team (even with Trae injured) who have two FRPs this year, some decent support pieces, and they probably think they can get better. We don’t have them over a barrel like SpursTalk.com likes to think we do.
It’s all just opinions and assholes, but I disagree with this assessment of ATL and I imagine their FO does to. You see borderline lotto team… I see solid play-in team. You say they don’t have assets to improve, but they have two FRPs this year and I think DJM, Bogdanovic, Johnson, Hunter, Bey and Okogwu (all players who would be at a minimum the third best player on our team) are solid trade pieces if they want to reconfigure the chairs on the deck. They also have two more tradeable FRPs (beyond this years) if they wanted. The Hawks are not in the “stuck” position (like the 2021-22 Spurs) that we would like to think they are.
Just my opinion.
The asset that is more valuable is Trae Young. The Spurs aren’t going to get him for cheap just because no one else can offer more. The Hawks don’t need to trade him. We need Trae to ask to be traded, then we’ll be cooking with gas.
ALT would want all their picks back, and Spurs would want protections on those picks. Lakers might offer three 1st. There will be compi on. But one of Trae or Murray will be traded.
Maybe Dev should get rid of that little pony tail thing and look like an alpha then.
The Spurs can (and should) just not even engage with the Hawks on a Young trade until after the draft. That way, there's no reason why the 2024 pick has to be involved. I don't know that we have to worry too much about the scenario where ATL doesn't want to trade Young but SA really wants him. I wouldn't be surprised if Trae is no close to as high on PATFO's due diligence list as posters here believe. The team historically has had a more conservative idea of win-now trades. I think their preference would be (first to wait, but assuming they'd feel some pressure to make a move, they would be) going for someone in the Sexton or maybe Simons. I don't think they're going to proactively try for the top of the market so early in their rebuilding prospects. They're trying to fill roles, not build a championship core.
I definitely agree with that and think it’s unlikely Trae ends up a Spurs unless Trae demands a trade. But in a situation where he doesn’t, I don’t think he’ll be cheap and I don’t think the Spurs will be interested in paying the price - certainly this FO has never shown any proclivity to make an acquisition of the sort. I guess there is a first time for everything, but I don’t see it personally.
If you're arguing that what you're really telling me is this is addition by subtraction with Trae in Atlanta and therefore I don't understand why you'd want him if you feel that way. Because they were a lottery team with him this year. I don't see much interesting on that roster outside of Dejounte and Jalen Johnson and I think no way Bey would be anywhere close to third best player on this awful Spurs roster. No way I'd trade Keldon, Tre, or even Sochan for Bey and you know how little I think of Keldon and Sochan.
That (addition by subtraction) is not what I’m saying at all. For now, we need to stop assuming that the Hawks default position is to trade Trae - it is not, it is to keep him. And if they keeping him, they likely don’t view themselves as a lottery team (because they aren’t. They are solidly in the Play-In, as they were with him, and they have maintained without him - their win % is pretty much the same with and without so far, and of course we can talk about what that means but I won’t in this post). So if they want to continue to build on that team, they have plenty of assets to do so, they are not some asset poor who can’t trade ANY picks and have no valuable players to trade. They actually have both.
The only way Trae comes as cheap as this board thinks is if he demands a trade, but the Hawks would just keep him. Whether or not we as fans would be happy paying the actual price is for everyone to decide on their own. I don’t think the Spurs would or will pay the price necessary, personally.
Again, if he demands a trade - all the calculus changes. My opinion is that the idea that we can get trade for only the Hawks pick (or less) is wishful thinking.
Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.
The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?
Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.
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