America's Poor: Are they that poor?

[fyatuk]

I am married to a fantastic teacher who is compensated fairly for her experience. She chooses to stay even though she has less than 10% support of the parents who walked into her office. She see's good teachers leave because they are fed up because of the lack of support from the district and parents. Yet they are the one's who get all of the blame.

I used to want to be a teacher. Until I realized that "teacher" means a lot more than it used to (or should). Teachers are now expected to be able to teach kids right and wrong, etc, etc that should be the parent's responsibilities. And with the fairly high number of broken homes are two-income families, a large number of kids' parents can't be involved in their childhood. Toss in some of the crap the districts pull, and it's just not an appealing profession.

To me, the "failing" of the educational system is really a failing of the parents and economy. From my experience of knowing teachers and kids, the kids that do well in school are usually the ones that have parents that take a very active role in their lives. Quality teachers help, but from my own second-hand experiences (meaning watching all parties, not being a party), that's really a lesser factor than parental involvement.

[herzlman]

Throwing money at the public schools does not fix them. That didn't work in the 1970's, and it doesn't work today.

The reasons it doesn't work are cultural.

The lesser cultural problem is corruption. The culture in some school district is that schools exist to provide the family and friends of leaders with sinecures. Relatively little of the funding makes its way into the classroom. For all its faults, NCLB does a decent job of rooting out and shutting down those structures.

The greater cultural problem is systemic collapse. A significant fraction of students in high-poverty areas come to school incapable of learning regardless of the available resources because their home lives are utter chaos and ruin. Thinking that extra school funding is going to reverse that problem is like thinking that gold-plating your bailing bucket is going to keep your ship from sinking.

Vouchers also don't work because there are too few parents in low-performing public schools who care about their children's education to use them.

Excellent point. Whatever is done to shore up the public schools needs to be coupled with a cultural-wide solution. Fixing high poverty areas in general also helps the schools in those districts.

However, the problem you present is paralyzing in its scope. Hopefully you don't take that as an excuse to do nothing.

[2centsworth]

SORRY TO GEORGE GERVIN'S AFRO: I'm sorry, I guess I should have realized you were joking. It's just that this is a subject that I am very passionate about, and I actually know people who are stupid enough to say something like that.

To 2cents: how would vouchers change a parent's motivation? They wouldn't. The solution isn't to get kids out of the poor public schools, it's to fix the public schools themselves. And how do you do that? By providing more funding so you can get better teachers, better textbooks, and nicer classrooms and materials.

Vouchers don't fix the problem, only the symptoms.

I rally wish it were that easy. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work. I think es pretty much summed up thr problem. Vouchers is not a cure all, but it will insert compe ion into the equation.

[Extra Stout]

I suggest that a consumption tax would do more to help education than throwing ever-more funding at failing public schools, because it would start to address the underlying cultural cancers that manifest themselves in poor education results.

[Extra Stout]

Excellent point. Whatever is done to shore up the public schools needs to be coupled with a cultural-wide solution. Fixing high poverty areas in general also helps the schools in those districts.

However, the problem you present is paralyzing in its scope. Hopefully you don't take that as an excuse to do nothing.

The first thing we have to do is end the culture of mindless consumerism where people think the meaning of life is having stuff, and of reckless nihilism where people think the meaning of life is doing whatever feels good to them right now. We actually reached a point seven years ago where American leaders told Americans that the best possible response to the terrorist attack of 9/11 was to go shopping!! We have a culture where "spiritual" leaders advise people that morality consists either of the pursuit of material riches or the indulgence of hedonistic urges. Self-denial? Self-sacrifice? What???

These assumptions infiltrate everything from our tax code to our activist goals.

The upper and middle classes have the economic and cultural capital to mitigate the destructive consequences of this value system... for a while. The poor do not. And then we are surprised when the response of a poor person when he or she comes into some resources is to spend it recklessly. We are surprised when poor people have no concept of forgoing a small benefit right now for a much larger benefit later.

Take an honest look at the "green" movement, for all its alleged social responsibility. How much of it consists of consumer goods which provide a "badge" of self-righteousness for those who ostensibly would be against such mindless consumerism? How much of it is an effort to convince oneself that con uous consumption is somehow sustainable if we just find the right technology with which to do it?

You might think I'm digressing off into other things, but I see this as interrelated. For all of our advancement, we've lost some of what makes us human. Technology has made each of us so capable of self-sufficiency that we have to be intentional about putting others ahead of ourselves. The natural tendency towards selfishness and narcissism is abetted by our way of life now. That tendency is utterly deadly and it shows up in human misery.

[Marcus Bryant]

The first thing we have to do is end the culture of mindless consumerism where people think the meaning of life is having stuff, and of reckless nihilism where people think the meaning of life is doing whatever feels good to them right now. We actually reached a point seven years ago where American leaders told Americans that the best possible response to the terrorist attack of 9/11 was to go shopping!! We have a culture where "spiritual" leaders advise people that morality consists either of the pursuit of material riches or the indulgence of hedonistic urges. Self-denial? Self-sacrifice? What???

These assumptions infiltrate everything from our tax code to our activist goals.

The upper and middle classes have the economic and cultural capital to mitigate the destructive consequences of this value system... for a while. The poor do not. And then we are surprised when the response of a poor person when he or she comes into some resources is to spend it recklessly. We are surprised when poor people have no concept of forgoing a small benefit right now for a much larger benefit later.

It pervades all classes. Those with higher incomes have higher debts.

The American Dream today is a guarantee of success, success which you must demonstrate through the ac ulation of crap and eating at casual dining establishments.

Take an honest look at the "green" movement, for all its alleged social responsibility. How much of it consists of consumer goods which provide a "badge" of self-righteousness for those who ostensibly would be against such mindless consumerism? How much of it is an effort to convince oneself that con uous consumption is somehow sustainable if we just find the right technology with which to do it?

The green movement serves many as a subs ute for the self-righteousness they would exhibit if they were religious. From left to right in this country there are people who want to impose their values on the rest of us in order to "save" us. Save us from a life of eternal damnation, global warming, or unfloridated water. you. Take care of your own life and stop trying to push your messiahs on the rest of us.

You might think I'm digressing off into other things, but I see this as interrelated. For all of our advancement, we've lost some of what makes us human. Technology has made each of us so capable of self-sufficiency that we have to be intentional about putting others ahead of ourselves. The natural tendency towards selfishness and narcissism is abetted by our way of life now. That tendency is utterly deadly and it shows up in human misery.

It is. Society creates the technology and then the use of that technology reshapes society. If not for the US' ability to attract scientific and engineering talent from other parts of the globe, the golden goose would have been cooked long ago.